Q: Why do women have orgasms?
A: No one knows, but many of us are glad we do.
This thread is motivated by a thread on ways to enhance the chances of pregnancy. Guruguy added that orgasm helps and cited an article in Psychology Today. A problem with learning science from popular magazines is the articles are written by people being paid by the word and working under time suspense. They may or may not have any expertise in their subjects. They will often find a few scientific articles with facts and throw the stuff on paper. Most subjects being researched are not so simple. The female orgasm certainly is complex judging from the art, history, medical and theological treatises devoted to the topic.
Women’s orgasms have been documented as far back as art exists. Pre-columbian art of meso-America; Egyptian tomb art; illustrations of the Kama Sutra (India) and Perfumed Garden (Arabia); murals at Pompeii all depict sex in ways that imply or explicate female enjoyment. Talmudic scholars of thousands of years ago specified how often an observant Jew was required to “satisfy his wife” depending upon his occupation. Goddesses of Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Celtic mythology had sexual hungers. Both ancient Chinese and Japanese bridegrooms were given elaborately illustrated manuals for their wedding nights (brides got their own versions). But, yet, other cultures banned sexual enjoyment for women even to the point of genital mutilation to prevent their pleasure and, possibly, to cause sex to be painful.
The woman’s orgasm has been cited as everything from a character flaw to a sleep aid! History of Elizabethan times and Victorian times in Europe reflects change in sexual mores of women. The times of Elizabeth I (the Virgin Queen) included such bawdy classics as Tom Jones and Fannie Hill but by the mid-19th century, such antics were not even discussed in polite company and brothels had sprung up in the “good parts” of cities for the convenience of gentlemen who did not wish to bother their wives. In the 1880s, Dr W.K. Kellogg of corn flake fame wrote a monster thesis on sexual behaviour in which he acknowledged that some women had “sexual tremors.” These were not normal and were to be discouraged in his words. These were the times that visible pregnancy led to confinement. It was untoward for a proper woman to appear in public with a protruding belly that said, “I’ve been laid!” At about the same time, Krafft-Ebing wrote his classic Psychopathia Sexualis. He felt constrained to write the title and parts of the text in Latin to discourage reading by lay persons. He did acknowledge female orgasm and even treated such delicate topics as “genital kissing.” His view was that orgasm was experienced by both genders to encourage procreation. On the continent of Europe, Krafft-Ebing’s work was widely read and started a revolution that included the invention of the diaphragm and cervical cap. In the UK and North America, the Victorian views held sway for much longer. Freud was not much help as his view of women was that they were incomplete men and their sexual behaviour was guided by men or by a woman’s desire to have a penis.
All of us who have a greater respect for scientific knowledge than for some abstract God, believe that all aspects of our anatomy and physiology has evolved to ensure the continuance of the specie. The anatomy of men and women is evident and most people have at least a gross knowledge of who was what and what is to be done with it. The physiology of the male orgasm is well understood and has an obvious purpose – deliver sperm to where it may find an egg. The physiology of the female orgasm is less well understood (argument over the G-Spot and female ejaculation) and the purpose is unknown – we get just as pregnant whether or not we reach orgasm, and that is all nature cares about.
In the 1950s, Masters & Johnson, in writing their books Male Sexual Response and Female Sexual Response, reported for the first time that the uterus went into contractions during intense orgasm. This was first noted while making movies of the internal parts during orgasm when one women, on her period, expelled menstrual fluid with such force that it shot out through her vagina and the speculum and hit the camera lens. They also noted while watching the resolution phase after orgasm that the cervix descended into a pool shaped depression on the posterior fornix where semen could be expected to accumulate. Masters and Johnson made no attempt to show that more sperm were gathered into the uterus as a result of these observations but others have tried.
Physiological evolutionists have gone to great length to prove that the woman’s orgasm contributes to pregnancy and the propagation of the human species. This is done, they say, because the likelihood of sperm entering the uterus is increased. Psychological evolutionists still point to the work of Krafft-Ebing and say that the pleasure the woman receives is what attracts her to sex and exposing herself to the chance of pregnancy and propagation. Each side in this dispute has some strength to its argument but neither has been able to prove their point in scientific terms. Each ignores a third, also not provable, possibility.
This requires that we each reverse popular wisdom. Instead of thinking of the clitoris as an underdeveloped penis, think of the penis as an overdeveloped clitoris. All embryos are initially female. It is not until several days after fertilization of the egg that the Y chromosome does its thing and begins the development of the male. During this very early stage of development, the new body is forming as a female and includes all clues to develop the initial characteristics of a woman. This would include the signals to develop nipples and a clitoris. Only later will the signals change, because of the Y chromosome, to determine that the gonads will develop as testes rather than ovaries and a shaft will be added behind the clitoris – which is really analogous to the glans penis rather than the penis. This means that eventually the man’s “clitoris” will be extended several inches from the body while the woman’s will be enveloped within the folds of the vulva (which, in a male, become the scrotum). The clitoris in a mature woman and glans penis in a mature male have the same nerves and these are the nerves whose stimulation results in sexual arousal. This means that all humans are programmed for sexual satisfaction even before the gender is determined. It also leads to a greater mutuality in the procreative process.
Here, then, are three explanations: Female orgasm leads to procreation by sucking sperm into the uterus (physiological explanation). Orgasm makes procreation fun and leads us women to risk it (psychological explanation). We are all programmed to enjoy sex (developmental explanation).
So, why do women have orgasms? Damned if I know but I am looking forward to my next one, right now, even though a thirty year old cologne bottle has never made anyone pregnant!
Wow, what an in depth explanation to theory! Thanks Brandye!
I love the "development explanation", it makes sense to me and gives this different perspective of our bodies!!! So cool!! ... cool? That's an odd word to use for this, but I'll stick to it!
I think the developmental aspect makes sense. (I mean what other use does the clitoris have except for pleasure)
The psychological explanation makes sense too. I mean what else could make a woman have more than 1 kid if the sex wasnt worth the risk?
And the physiological makes sense as well.
Id have to say its definitely a combination of the three. I mean after an orgasm my partner definitely feels "smaller"...well tighter. Even with the fears of pregnancy that we have been through, it still hasnt stopped her from initiating or craving it. And I mean hey...there is never anything wrong with an orgasm!
So why is this titled "Why women have orgasms" instead of "Why people have orgasms"?
Coming from a medical professional such as yourself, I'm disappointed that you perceive a female orgasm as some sort of mysterious enigma and write off a male orgasm as merely a way to deliver sperm to an egg. It's just common sense that both occur for the exact same reasons (Physiological, psychological, whatever else you said). If you can explain the male orgasm, you can explain the female orgasm... OK, sure, the physical purpose for a female's orgasm is less obvious than a male's - I'll give you that. But it's been shown to increase the chance of pregnancy in theory - case closed. And yes, it's not necessary for the woman to have an orgasm to become pregnant, but then, it's not technically necessary for the male to have one either. And finally, of course the reason behind sex feeling good is to encourage people, women AND men, to do it - if it didn't feel good, why would anyone bother? So basically what I'm getting at is - you haven't presented any evidence that the female orgasm is inherently different than the male orgasm other than the production of semen.
And I'm pretty curious about how you can give so many thorough, logical explanations for exactly why women have orgasms, and then turn right around and say that you have no idea why. HUH? That makes absolutely no sense AT ALL.
So why did I type this message? Because I thought this article was a tad sexist (though perhaps I'm reading way too much into it - it happens) and too afraid to actually answer the question. But I have no idea why I typed this message...
No one wonders why men have orgasms: the ejaculation is needed to deliver sperm deep into the woman and being pleasureable makes the man want to do it as often as possible.
Women's orgasms have no clearly demonstrated purpose. Hence the attempts to explain. And you are correct that all three make sense and the answer likely encompasses all three. No researcher will get rich and famous by proclaiming that. Scientific politics are as devious and ruthless as other politics.
A discussion of scientific findings requires clear explication of each alternative and then a conclusion. There is your clear explication of these three hypotheses. They all make a bit of sense and, really, who cares which is "correct?"
Researchers will study anything - like why poop is brown - if they think they will become famous.
Sexist? Think about it. We ALL began as female zygotes. That has got to be the basic body. Once the effects of the Y chromosome kick in, some are diverted to becoming a male body. And for most of history, the clitoris has been described as an undeveloped penis. It was there first.
And my theory about why you typed that message is you wanted to be a jerk.
I just kinda figured that the female orgasm is around so that women will want to have sex more often.
Whatever the reason - I like it.
No, I didn't just want to be a jerk. I apologize for coming off that way - It was late and I was tired.
I guess what I mainly took issue with was the "men are simple and utilitarian" vibe I got from reading this. I honestly don't even know why something that trivial bothered me, but for some reason it did. I'm over it now...
Regardless, apparently we pretty much agree on this issue.
Why do some/most people have orgasms? To bind humans together for the good of the offspring. It is not enough to 'make' the child - you have to raise the child. This is best done within a stable pair-bond. The orgasm, with the parental instincts, helps this bonding through the release of euphoric brain endorphins. Yes, male and female orgasms are the same.
Evil.
You are absolutely correct from a sociological or ethical position. I could not agree more. From the perspective of what purpose the female orgasm serves, we have to look at more basic functions. The tom cat rarely hangs around after his friend is no longer in heat.
Come, come, Brandye - you know why women have orgasms - so we DON'T strangle the men when they don't "get it"!
You and I know that is correct; somehow the scientific community does not accept that reason! Too sensible.
I suppose the explanation for female orgasm is the same as for males, males ejaculate when they orgasm females want to have sex (procreate) and have an orgasm too, so with mutual need/desire the continuity of the human species is assurd.
I think it has also beed suggested that a woman will be more likely to choose a man that can make her orgasm and in the porcess is chossing a better father for her children that the guy that just wants to stick it in have fun and then run (no I didn't set out with the intention of making it rym)
Women seem to have orgasms to make them want sex >> how else would we procreate, except by rape? It can also be used to help semen travel up the cervix.
Read the thread, blatant. Your second reason has been discredited medically.
Pleasure bonds and mutual pleasure bonds mutually.
It is called a "pair-bond" for a reason.
[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;236809]Pleasure bonds and mutual pleasure bonds mutually.
It is called a "pair-bond" for a reason.[/QUOTE]
quite e very efficient mechanism, only nature itself could come up with such a perfect solution
I heard somewhere that when the woman has an orgasm and her muscles contract, it helps the serm to travel on up to the egg. Made sense to me...
It may make sense, mary kate, but it is generally no longer the medical theory. There are movies of the uterus expelling menstrual fluid in spurts during menstraution. Some believe that on relaxation it may suck semen in. This was a theory promoted by some of the Masters and Johnsons findings of the mid-twentieth century.
At best this is irrelevant because many, many women become pregnant without orgasm. The uterine contractions are similar to all the other muscles of the lower abdomen entering spasm as they release the tension of sexual arousal.
one organ develops outwards and has a dispatch terminal.. the other develops inwards and has an inward goods terminal (grin).. a penis can still deliver semen without orgasm (albeit not so quick and voluminous), just as a uterus can also deliver an egg without an orgasm.. maybe the orgasm is the big bang of procreation, but if we're going to talk evolution, organisms tend to develop a thing before it finds a use for it.. take the development of the eye, originally starting out as a light sensitive cell, and eventually providing survival of that species.. i very much doubt that the orgasm was developed for a delivery system, but rather helped deliver survival for species that have it.. chicken and egg, i rather think the orgasm came (pun not intended) first, and not gender specific, and survived because both parties need to want it.. (testosterone charged males aside of course)
edit: do jelly fishes have orgasms?
Women have orgasms to keep them from strangling men and vice versa.
lol. and to give the pheromones some enjoyment
No one has interviewed a jellyfish but it does appear that they have orgasms, or, at least, go through the throes of orgasm. As the female expels the ggs, she does go through contortions that could orgasm. When the male is attracted and ejaculates, the physical action certainly looks like an orgasm.
In all mammals, the anatomical features are present for orgasm and observation shows that they all do.
Amen to women orgasming.
[QUOTE=Brandye;243667]No one has interviewed a jellyfish but it does appear that they have orgasms, or, at least, go through the throes of orgasm. As the female expels the ggs, she does go through contortions that could orgasm. When the male is attracted and ejaculates, the physical action certainly looks like an orgasm.
In all mammals, the anatomical features are present for orgasm and observation shows that they all do.[/QUOTE]
True and yet out of all the mammalian population it would appear that dolphins and humans have orgasms for enjoyment, in addition to whatever Mother Nature's intentions and designs were.
[QUOTE=sensualGoddess;253607]True and yet out of all the mammalian population it would appear that dolphins and humans have orgasms for enjoyment, in addition to whatever Mother Nature's intentions and designs were.[/QUOTE]
I think there is a species of monkey that mates for pleasure and females do mate in exchange of favours from the males (basically prostituting themselves) but i don't know if they have orgasms but from the above sounds very likely
[QUOTE=Newtolove;253608]I think there is a species of monkey that mates for pleasure and females do mate in exchange of favours from the males (basically prostituting themselves) but i don't know if they have orgasms but from the above sounds very likely[/QUOTE]
I've actually heard about the species that does this...not sure by the name, but as for orgasms if they do it for pleasure or to mate...that's what I'm trying to understand
well whatever form it takes they get pleasure from mating either the stimulation itself or the ejaculation/orgasm or both as with humans
Newto, Goddess,
Among the higher primates are a few species, including us, whose females are capable of orgasm at any point in their fertility cycle (menstrual, for humans). All other mammals are capable of orgasm only during estrus (when they are in heat) when pregnancy is almost assured. Anything that brings such great pleasure can become a bartering tool. Just as we human females can, and do, use sex for manipulation, there is no reason that the same is not true for other species capable of sex throughout their cycle. Given the similarity in sexual performance, it seems possible that other species' females can derive the same enjoyment as we whether or not orgasm is involved.
If anyone is still interested; the species of monkey I think you are referring to, is called Bonobo. Allthough this sexual social behaviour is mostly observed in captivity. Fur further details: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo]Bonobo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also, there are chimpanzees who have been spotted in captivity actually 'making love' while facing each other. A rare site in the animal kingdom by my knowledge. And only seen between chimpansees who share a close bond. There's a beautiful episode of 'monkey bussiness' on Animal planet in which you could actually see this happening, which is kinda sweet :) (although you could say even a chimpanzee deserves some intimate privacy ;)) I really couldn't tell which episode (number, title, etc) it actually was, sorry...
I always wanted to know if there are females beside humans that could orgasm. Thanx to this forum, now I do :) Just learned something today.
I still say women have orgasms to keep them from strangling men.
According to the latest research on the topic:
The vaginal and uterine environment changes to be more agreeable to sperm if she has an orgasm.
Thrill the lady and your spermatazoa have a better chance of living to reach the egg and fertilize it.
Neat!
Please get the book (just out now) Sex at Dawn
I went out with a girl who used to rub on a cushion and achieve something she took to be her peak. One day i fingered her until she orgasmed and it suddenly opened a new world for her
Although there are many ways a loving partner can help a woman have an orgasm, ultimately, a woman is responsible for his own sexual pleasure. This does not mean your partner should not be involved. Communication between partners is very important. It is for the woman to inform his partner, likes to make them love.
EDITED: Removed signature link. Mod 3
I love women who have real orgasms, they are one in a million and I love to eat them out. I don't agree with pornography movies showing women who "squirt" they really don't squirt it is all fake. Kudos to the real women who really squirt gotta love em!
> I love women who have real orgasms, they are one in a million
What is your source for this information?
>women who "squirt" they really don't squirt it is all fake. Kudos to the real women who really squirt gotta love em!
Slight contradiction ?
Now let's just hope that women are kind enough not to do like that Freud wacko and brag about it.
"Everyone starts out as female! Men are mistakes of nature!"
Of course I doubt it will get to that, but if that kind of thing should've happen in the past, it should've been in favor of women...
i have a theory as to why women take longer to orgasm (from what i know)
it could be a more primal thing. The woman wants to keep going for that sexual relief, and the man is already done. So another one is brought in, and this keeps going till the woman is satisfied, thereby mating with multiple men to increase the chance of pregnancy and procreation
no I don't think that is the case. Who said women take longer to orgasm ?
When I sarted going out with a girl she had never had an orgasm and it was by my hand that she got her first (I tought her and helped her learn a lot about her body). After the first she obviously wanted more but found them difficult to achieve in the beginning but as time went on it got easier and easier.
It has been suggested that orgasm is a way of "choosing" the right man who is more patient and caring (so will help look after the children) as during orgasm conception is made easier as the (can't remember the name but think it is the cervix) lowers itself and allows the sperm to more easily reach the egg. but the man has to be patient and caring and ensure his partner has all the attention required to orgasm. It is a bit trickier than for men but then what should i know, I'm a bloke
Don't you guys READ?
Run to the library, get the book Sex at Dawn and get educated. Not only is the info good and up to the minute - but it is a HILARIOUS book that's FUN to read.
Example: "A scrotum is like a spare refridgerator in the garage just for beer. If you've got a spare beer fridge, you're probably the type who expects a party to break out at any moment. You want to be prepared. A scrotum fulfills the same function." ... "Anyone who's been kicked in the beer fridge can tell you this is a potentially costly arrangement. The increased vulnerability of having testes out there in the wind inviting attack or accident rather than tucked away safely inside the body is hard to overstate - especially if you're crumpled in the fetal position unable to breathe."
just a small exerpt from page 218
By implication one can see that human males have evolved to be instantly ready to go if a lady should call for him and require his services. Certainly sounds like a party to me!
Oh and there's info on women's orgasms as well but that section's not as funny as where he talks about why women are so noisy.
Oh yes definitely costly...I had epididymitis (sp?) And that cost me a ton in medical bills. Doctor visits. Std tests. Antibiotics. Ultrasounds. Follow up visits. More antibiotics because the follow up doctor played crush the testicles and caused a relapse. And another ultrasounds because my gp didn't believe that the doc she referred me to would play crush the testicles and swore that it was a growth causing the inflammation.
Further research has been done on WHY Female Orgasm.
1. The orgasm not only helps the sperm into the womb and up the fallopian tubes but ALSO directs the sperm, somehow, to the CORRECT fallopian tube - the one down which the egg is traveling. Further research is being done but this confirms my earlier statement, although for an additional reason, that thrilling her helps make him a father.
AND
2. It is part of the basic wiring diagram for homo sapiens along with two eyes, ten toes and so on. Females have brain to clitoris and males get brain to penis.
Why female orgasm? Why, so it's so much more fun for me of course! Nothing like my lady's body vibrating from a mind blower or unable to walk straight for half an hour after I've done my duty and pleased that booty!
obviously there is no ONE answer as to why anyone orgasms
women can and do get pregnant without ever experiencing an orgasm
a man can expel semen without an orgasm, (masturbate to close and then just let the fluid spill out) - no great thrill and not common but can happen
and a man can also have an orgasm without ejaculating
and both partners can orgasm and ejaculate without getting pregnant
it may aide in pregnancy, but ....
they feel awesome, so who cares, just go out and have another one with someone you love !!!
Of course, orgasms are not mandatory for women - but what a gift!!!
What the research shows is that, and you're not going to like this but it is true, that during our promiscuous evolution in our forager period, sperm competition was 'in play' so the man who thrilled her had the edge for not only did her anatomy help him by moving his sperm along but orgasms also made her vaginal fluids less hostile to his sperm. Not to mention making him the lady's first choice when it came to repeat performances.
1) Why do my orgasms make me squirt up to my tummy but when i wee it goes down instead of up? Shouldn't both go in the same direction?
2) When orgasm i can make it last longer if i lotion my boobs during the orgasm. Is this same for other people too?
3) When i am around a guy and my panties start to feel wet does that mean i want to make love to him or does it just mean i want to touch myself for relief?
1. Yes, Molly, one would expect both the urine and the orgasmic fluid to go in the same direction, BUT, sexual arousal for a woman involves the female parts getting prepared to accept a penis. It is quite possible as your lubricant starts to flow and your vagina becomes distended there is change in position of your bladder and, especially, your urethra. If you were to pee at this height of arousal, your urine would likely go up as well.
2. Some of us like breast stimulation throughout and some find it distracting. At the extreme there are women who like to have their nipples twisted firmly during orgasm. You are normal whether or not any woman you speak with expresses the same desire.
3. Sexual arousal, as stated above, is simply our bodies preparing to accept a penis. This happens during masturbation or whilst "making out." The answer, then, is "either." Your body is ready to take him in but most of us have learned that we can do quite well ourselves whether we take a penis into us or simply relieve ourselves with our own touch.
The stages of sexual arousal are the same whether with a male or female partner and with woman love we do not "enter" one another in the sense of taking a penis into us. Our vaginas do elongate and get larger and the plasma oozes from the vaginal walls just as it would to accept a penis. Sexual arousal is sexual arousal; how we resolve that tension is quite another matter.
[QUOTE=Brandye;276883]1. Yes, Molly, one would expect both the urine and the orgasmic fluid to go in the same direction, BUT, sexual arousal for a woman involves the female parts getting prepared to accept a penis. It is quite possible as your lubricant starts to flow and your vagina becomes distended there is change in position of your bladder and, especially, your urethra. If you were to pee at this height of arousal, your urine would likely go up as well.
2. Some of us like breast stimulation throughout and some find it distracting. At the extreme there are women who like to have their nipples twisted firmly during orgasm. You are normal whether or not any woman you speak with expresses the same desire.
3. Sexual arousal, as stated above, is simply our bodies preparing to accept a penis. This happens during masturbation or whilst "making out." The answer, then, is "either." Your body is ready to take him in but most of us have learned that we can do quite well ourselves whether we take a penis into us or simply relieve ourselves with our own touch.
The stages of sexual arousal are the same whether with a male or female partner and with woman love we do not "enter" one another in the sense of taking a penis into us. Our vaginas do elongate and get larger and the plasma oozes from the vaginal walls just as it would to accept a penis. Sexual arousal is sexual arousal; how we resolve that tension is quite another matter.[/QUOTE]
OH i see. I guess its like our bodies are designed to make babies so being excited makes us wet so guys can enter and make babies with us. And then apart from making babies theres the fun side which is not about being entered but instead about any kind of fun that we like :D
Thanks Brandye for explaining the 3 points its nice reading it ;) hehe.
According to the latest info, female orgasms also steer the incoming sperm to the correct fallopian tube, make the uterine environment more sperm-friendly thus increasing the chances for the man who thrills you to become the man who inpregnates you; giving a whole new meaning to the expression "who's the daddy?".
[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;276986]According to the latest info, female orgasms also steer the incoming sperm to the correct fallopian tube, make the uterine environment more sperm-friendly thus increasing the chances for the man who thrills you to become the man who inpregnates you; giving a whole new meaning to the expression "who's the daddy?".[/QUOTE]
Thats a nice feeling to know how a fun man can help make babies more too :) it makes fun more necessary i guess i can say.