[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;272960]We, and the author, do not know the facts of these cases so we cannot use them in this discussion.

Does the gender of the prepetrator influence the laying of criminal charges and influence the resultant sentence if convicted?

Yes, it does.

But this influence is based upon VIOLENCE and the CAPACITY FOR VIOLENCE more than anything else. Men are perceived as being more violent than women. This is just perception and we can all think of exceptions. So, yes, when it comes to sex crimes, men 'get it in the neck'.

Unfair? Certainly, if one leaves out considerations of 'pay back'. Just within this forum: how many men here have been raped? If you would go down to polls, you will find a post asking the women here, if they have been raped. It should come as no surprise that women have long memories and are unforgiving once pushed beyond a certain point. Of course, we women shouldn't blame ALL men for the actions of SOME men - but, hey, guys - once you assume authority, you also put a bull's eye on your back.

We can also 'talk numbers'. Male prepetrators far outweigh female perpetrators by a huge margin. The stats also show that women are far safer out in the streets than in their own homes. "To know her is to assault her?" Apparently.

Men can say that the pendulum has swung too far.
But to me, it all sounds like whining.[/QUOTE]

Of course the statistics themselves are biased because they are based on reported cases...men rarely report cases of sexual harassment or abuse (and even if they do they are far more likely to be ridiculed or ignored than if it were a woman and reports go unrecorded).

I guess your claim of whining throws out the idea of equality in society for men and women...

[QUOTE=sensualGoddess;273020]I have to disagree. To you, it might be whining, but add in the life giving factors that women HAVE to do because biology dictates it...

I'm just saying, walk a mile in a woman's high heels...fully.

But it's definitely not whining, when there are facts that back up treatment of women.
. [/QUOTE]

Really no point in arguing it as all it will do is turn one into looking like an ignorant bogeyman as the otherside ramps up the pathos with horribly abused women from time and culturally stunted societies.

The point I raise is if women complain about not being equal...they really shouldn't be accepting an unequal system even if it benefits them...the hypocrisy interferes with the ethos of their position. No matter how 'justified' in a pathos sense such a hypocritical position is.

Sounds good Geoff until the reality hits - men using legislation intended to resolve the evils of the past vis-a-vis women to continue the evils of the past.

We, and the author, do not know the facts of these cases so we cannot use them in this discussion.

Does the gender of the prepetrator influence the laying of criminal charges and influence the resultant sentence if convicted?

Yes, it does.

But this influence is based upon VIOLENCE and the CAPACITY FOR VIOLENCE more than anything else. Men are perceived as being more violent than women. This is just perception and we can all think of exceptions. So, yes, when it comes to sex crimes, men 'get it in the neck'.

Unfair? Certainly, if one leaves out considerations of 'pay back'. Just within this forum: how many men here have been raped? If you would go down to polls, you will find a post asking the women here, if they have been raped. It should come as no surprise that women have long memories and are unforgiving once pushed beyond a certain point. Of course, we women shouldn't blame ALL men for the actions of SOME men - but, hey, guys - once you assume authority, you also put a bull's eye on your back.

We can also 'talk numbers'. Male prepetrators far outweigh female perpetrators by a huge margin. The stats also show that women are far safer out in the streets than in their own homes. "To know her is to assault her?" Apparently.

Men can say that the pendulum has swung too far.
But to me, it all sounds like whining.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;273001]The two crimes AS FAR AS WE KNOW may or may not be the same.
For all we know the male perpetrator may have threatened violence - we simply do not have all the facts.

Ideally, yes, same crime should receive the same sentence always excepting mitigating factors.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. There's just simply isn't enough information on either case to say that it warrants the double standard or not.

[QUOTE=Gingerbread Geoff;273011]To me that sounds like whining....[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree. To you, it might be whining, but add in the life giving factors that women HAVE to do because biology dictates it...

I'm just saying, walk a mile in a woman's high heels...fully.

But it's definitely not whining, when there are facts that back up treatment of women.

Would you call it whining when the degree of sexual abuse goes well into FGM?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On that note, most men commit such acts because it gives them power. Men that don't report such acts done to them, actually can't because it foster the assumption that they are weak.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is there gender differences in how sex offenders are handled? Who knows?

We just know that both sets can become sex offenders.

Society dictates the rest.

[QUOTE=Gingerbread Geoff;273011]To me that sounds like whining....[/QUOTE]

Perhaps. But it's still true none the less.

Just the facts.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;273001]The two crimes AS FAR AS WE KNOW may or may not be the same.
For all we know the male prepetrator may have threatened violence - we simply do not have all the facts.

Ideally, yes, same crime should receive the same ssentence always excepting mitigating factors.[/QUOTE]

As long as the factors are mitigating...and not say...based upon random coin flip of which chromosome your daddy put in your mommy....

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;272980]Goeff - after two thousand years of having to beware what you wore, how you behaved, of having all the authority and leadership in any relationship automatically taken out of your hands and placed into hers, getting your name changed upon marriage, having to prove your masculinity at every turn if you happened to be doing a job socially designated as being feminine, being burnt at the stake or stoned and having your penis cut off because of religious fanatics, having to worry what other people said about you, earning 60 cents to every dollar a woman made doing the same exact job, having to consider which seat you sat in on the bus to work, being told what you can do with your body, and looking at every woman as a potential predator who could call you hysterical to passersby and drag you off to be raped without let or hindrance since "might equals right" THEN we can talk about equality.

The price women have had to pay for masculine 'protection' is shamefull.

Esp since all of it has been artifical and unnecessary.

[/QUOTE]

To me that sounds like whining....

The two crimes AS FAR AS WE KNOW may or may not be the same.
For all we know the male prepetrator may have threatened violence - we simply do not have all the facts.

Ideally, yes, same crime should receive the same ssentence always excepting mitigating factors.

it shouldn't matter who committed the crime regardless of age, race, or sex.
If two people commit the same offense they should face the same judgement

[SIZE="1">( Think of the movie "A Time To Kill" when McConaughey says at the end "Now imagine that she's white" and you realize it doesn't matter what color she was. )[/SIZE]

Geoff is right that male rape does happen and is even more under-reported than typical female rape.

I think same crime, same time, insofar as the crimes are identical.

Goeff - after two thousand years of having to beware what you wore, how you behaved, of having all the authority and leadership in any relationship automatically taken out of your hands and placed into hers, getting your name changed upon marriage, having to prove your masculinity at every turn if you happened to be doing a job socially designated as being feminine, being burnt at the stake or stoned and having your penis cut off because of religious fanatics, having to worry what other people said about you, earning 60 cents to every dollar a woman made doing the same exact job, having to consider which seat you sat in on the bus to work, being told what you can do with your body, and looking at every woman as a potential predator who could call you hysterical to passersby and drag you off to be raped without let or hindrance since "might equals right" THEN we can talk about equality.

The price women have had to pay for masculine 'protection' is shamefull.

Esp since all of it has been artifical and unnecessary.

Now it is MEN'S turn to watch their backs.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;273034]Sounds good Geoff until the reality hits - men using legislation intended to resolve the evils of the past vis-a-vis women to continue the evils of the past.[/QUOTE]

Well that sounds like paranoia....

Crime sentences in the U.S. vary quite a bit from case to case, district to district, and state to state so it very difficult to compare two without detailed information. In general, though, violent crimes receive much harsher punishment than non-violent ones - a good example being embezzlement vs armed robbery. It is worth noting that people are astronomically more likely to condemn a male sex crime than a female one, mostly because of the violence and relative physical helplessness of the victim. I do think that sex crimes should be punished disregarding male or female since in most cases the lasting damage is mental.

I am familiar with the dangers, and have had to file a police report in the past with stalkers as well as having been drugged in an attempt.

[QUOTE=Gingerbread Geoff;273035]Well that sounds like paranoia....[/QUOTE]

It might be a paranoia, but the fact is, that it is happening.

Here's what will we agree to, there is always a species that for one reason or another (power) that needs to instill some form of dominance over other species based either on sex or other features.

I agree that women in general should stop accepting these tactics. (I can vouch after four years of going to an all girls school, that despite those who are empowered, I do feel disappointed and maybe almost angry at the women who should try and fight for the same equalities that we all seek)

I'm not going to argue that it is paranoia. But ever done is and will always be a domino effect.

You cannot have paranoia without an agent of fear (oppression, abuse)

Change cannot happen without a certain degree of paranoia.

Crimes should be judged by their nature.
A victim NEVER wines.

And (s)he ALWAYS deserves our help whenever we see it happening.
What authorities advice to do here;
- gather help of other bystanders and draw attention to the crime
- call 911 (112 in Europe)
- confront the attacker together
- take pictures of the attacker
- stay with the victim at all times

When you are not immediate witness, but do suspect abuse within the walls of the victims home, there are special hotlines where you can report your concerns. So that authorities can check it out.

@Geoff; my heart sinks when I read that you'd "obviously not" do anything to stop a girl from being raped. It chills my blood...

Back to the article: there is just no way in telling why this particular offender was charged far less. I can think of numerous reasons why the nature of the crime could be considered different by the court of law, not even taking the different states into account. To me; this article is simply an author pulling the "gender-card", without any real and thorough comparative investigation prior.

Men do fall victim of crime and abuse. Since 2008 we have safe houses especially for men in four major cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague, Utrecht), 10 safe houses each. Over the past 3 years 677 men sought help, of which 300 in the first year. A total of 182 were actually taken in to stay. Most needed someone to talk to and were given advice. A violent (ex)partner is the reason for 40%, human trafficking for 15%. Most men that come for help are being abused and threatened by several people at the same time. Like: (ex-)partner, her family and her friends have all made him their target.

By just an impression of comparison: 8000 women and 4500 children are taken in by safe houses yearly. I'm sure I can find you more statistics if anyone's interested. Even though such numbers are impressively more massive, we should not ignore the group of men that are victims. It gives record to how overlooked this group is, by the fact that it is the organization for Protection of Women that encourages and fights for these shelters for men.

[QUOTE=sensualGoddess;273050]It might be a paranoia, but the fact is, that it is happening.

Here's what will we agree to, there is always a species that for one reason or another (power) that needs to instill some form of dominance over other species based either on sex or other features.

I agree that women in general should stop accepting these tactics. (I can vouch after four years of going to an all girls school, that despite those who are empowered, I do feel disappointed and maybe almost angry at the women who should try and fight for the same equalities that we all seek)

I'm not going to argue that it is paranoia. But ever done is and will always be a domino effect.

You cannot have paranoia without an agent of fear (oppression, abuse)

Change cannot happen without a certain degree of paranoia.[/QUOTE]

You know, I really don't care one way or another.

So, if you heard a girl getting raped in an alley, you'd do NOTHING to stop it?

Like if ANYTHING happened to a woman, you'd do NOTHING to help her out of trouble???

[QUOTE=sensualGoddess;273063]So, if you heard a girl getting raped in an alley, you'd do NOTHING to stop it?
[/QUOTE]

obviously not.

I mean I don't really care about this topic.

I had a young lady, who begged for help to get away from her abuse. She had a new house for her and her children, but her ex-boyfriend would not allow her to take her stuff from the house they shared. The sexual and verbal abuse was overpowering and tearing her apart. The following saturday I moved her and he was nowhere to be found. Todate he has not been near her and stays away. I get a text twice a week to let me know she's fine and that he is staying away. She was strong enough to get up and walk away...and start her life. All she needed was one person to stand up in her support, and I was there ! I'm proud of her standing up for herself, and changing her life. She made up her mind and I only drove the truck ! She asked me what if he was waiting on me that Sat morning....hell I sent word to him that I would be there at 10 a.m., I think he got the hint.

@RedRoses, I think he may have meant the topic thread (but then I don't even know why he offered anything in the first place.)

But if he actually did mean that he would allow sex abuse to happen when it's right in front of him, I'm not sure what I would think.

He meant he didn't care about the topic. When confronted with examples of 'putting himself in her place', he decided that this topic wasn't worth it.

The "obviously not" was pertaining to 'standing by and doing nothing to stop it' - meaning he would try to stop it.

in Geoff's defense if you read the statements, I think the double negative got missed

"Would you do nothing?"

"Obviously not" (meaning he would not do nothing = he would do something)

My apologies. I must have misinterpreted the double negative. And I'm actually glad it is a misinterpretation! :) Since I couldn't imagine anyone really saying such a harsh thing.

I was driving home with the kids once and there on the side of the road a distraught woman was restling to get away from some man, she managed it and began to run around the car, parked along the side of the road, into the woods with him following. I was traveling too fast to stop so I turned around and went back. Cruising past, the two were sitting on the downed tree, far apart, and talking calmly. I made no secret that I was watching them. Once again I went on past and turned around again to cruise slowly past one last time. The lady was getting into the car while the man remained on the log. She waved to me and I went on home.

I will never know but perhaps just noticing and showing some concern can be enough.