So, I have this on-off again lover with whom things are slowly getting hotter. I am new to d/s stuff, which we're starting to do, though have always fantasized about it. I dont think I am reading his mind right nor satisfying him enough, nor am I getting what I want after hints even. How much should I struggle or else how easily give in? Is he not satisfying me because he doesn't care to or because it has to be only on his terms? What are basic principles or thought processes that I should know about? Any advice would be appreciated so much.
Wed, 07/26/2006 - 06:11
#1
What Does A Male Dom Want? Think?
can't figure the question could you rewrite it ? what is a male dom ?
I believe she is talking about S and M. But thats all I can answer Im afraid.
Honestly you should just discuss your feelings with each other. I sometimes struck up talk about this subject with my (*very* submissive) then-gf while we were in the middle of making out, as I find it's much easier to reveal these things when you're aroused. You might want to whisper something like, "what submissive things can I do to please you?" and listen carefully.
In my case, I asked her "how can I make you feel more submissive?" and she was very forthcoming, allowing me to change things up to make it much hotter for both of us. Maybe something similar will work for you.
[QUOTE=erin]Is he not satisfying me because he doesn't care to or because it has to be only on his terms? [/QUOTE]
Isn't that a good question?!!!
An on-off lover?
I'd suggest you put some effort into understanding what this is all about... whether you/he are engaging in some dom/sub sex play or you are accepting a life style/relationship where you don't count very much. (If you want that, fine, but make sure you understand what it is.)
I'm not sure I agree with moose that this is best discussed while you are aroused... there's a big element of trust required in d/s relationships. Given the fragility of this relationship, I think you want to be very cautious and be sure you understand exactly what you are getting yourself into...
The quoted question from your post is a huge red flag. I think you should know the answer to it before you get too deeply involved in being submissive. And realize that regardless of the reason you come up with, you've said he's not satisfying you.
How much sense does it make to be submissive to someone like that?
are we talking about friend with benifits by any chance why are the basic conceps at the root of this question being treated like a big secret ?
[QUOTE=Newtolove]are we talking about friend with benifits by any chance why are the basic conceps at the root of this question being treated like a big secret ?[/QUOTE]
I don't think they're being kept a secret--I just don't think you're familiar with the lingo. A "Male dom." is the dominant male in a BDSM relationship (Bondage/Discipline/Sadism/Masochism).
It's an entirely different world from FWB (friends with benefits).
[QUOTE=erin]So, I have this on-off again lover with whom things are slowly getting hotter. I am new to d/s stuff, which we're starting to do, though have always fantasized about it. I dont think I am reading his mind right nor satisfying him enough, nor am I getting what I want after hints even. How much should I struggle or else how easily give in?[/QUOTE]
Erin: you need to discuss with your lover how this is going to go. It's different for everyone. But Wally's right; you definitely shouldn't be in the dark about it. In serious BDSM relationships, there's usually even a written contract involved.
There's a big difference between a true BDSM relationship and some fantasy bondage. You need to know which you're involved with--a little light spanking and silk ties or leather whips and handcuffs?
You should only do as much as your comfortable with.
[QUOTE=erin]Is he not satisfying me because he doesn't care to or because it has to be only on his terms? [/QUOTE]
It is my understanding that in most S/D relationships there is mutual sexual satisfaction for both partners. If only one of you is being satisfied, there is a problem. Communicate!
after another evening spent with him, something occurred that made me realize how very far apart we were, and i have decided not to have much else to do with him. many thanks for all the thoughtful and generous responses. they were sensible and enlightening.
i didnt mean to leave anyone in the dark, i was referring to s & m -or something similiar but lighter- dom meaning dominant.
to those who are experienced with D/s or even who are not but can see this more clearly for not being involved, i have another question... i have been repeatedly told that i did not act like a sub, though i said i was, or that someone didnt feel dominant in my company. for instance, if i said something haughty that i thought i would be slapped for, but instead the 'top' turned away and later expressed dissatisfaction with my lack of bottomness. in a way it doesnt matter because im going to go with what feels right. but i do wonder if i am breaking some invisible law that everyone else knows about, or if i am being a fake. is it normal or to be expected that a self-professed sub automatically & quickly obeys every command, even in a new relationship? am i a liar or mistaken?
Again, I think it's something that should be discussed before hand. You should both know the "rules" you're abiding by for your particular brand of S/M. You should talk about your expectations before you engage in any activities. You should develop "safe" words, etc. If you haven't talked about it before hand, you don't have a mutual understanding, and it isn't a relationship, and imo, you shouldn't be engaging in S/M without a defined relationship of some sort and the rules of play that go along with it.
I don't pretend to understand the dom/sub scene and am far from qualified to discuss the "rights and wrongs" of it... I agree with Jaysey that it ought to be worked out between the individuals, but there is also a sub-culture around this and, I suspect, those who engage often try to fit that culture.
That said, let me "mess with your head" a little. LOL How about considering that it is actually the sub who has control in the relationship. Can someone truly "dominate" another without the other's permission? I believe it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said "No one can make a fool out of you without your permission."
Sorta makes one wonder... does a "sub" enjoy allowing the "dom" to enjoy the illusion he/she is dominating? Just how does one achieve "mutual" understanding in a dom/sub relationship when the point of the relationship is dominance, not mutuality?
If that doesn't make your head hurt, it could be where your questions about invisible rules, etc. stems from...
I think you are far from mistaken.
From my understanding, the submissive gets pleasure out of being submissive. Those seriously involved in the culture usually discuss their relationship and its rules before they ever engage in sexual activity. The submissive, for his/her part, sets boundaries for how far he/she is willing to go. For example, a submissive uncomfortable with, says, anal sex, may say, "Under no circumstances are you to penetrate my anus." Once the role-playing of sub/dom begins, then the dominant one cannot violate those boundaries. Hence, the mutual understanding.
true that. technically, the sub is on top due to the fact that they are the one that defines all the real boundaries. otherwise, for all intents & purposes, the dom is boss.
[QUOTE=erin]true that. technically, the sub is on top due to the fact that they are the one that defines all the real boundaries. otherwise, for all intents & purposes, the dom is boss.[/QUOTE]
BUT
The assumption here is that we are discussing "role playing." In some cases that is not the intent or the practice. I think that's why I was emphasizing getting clear on what is going on, including whether or not your partner wants to role play or truly wants to dominate - and to what extent.
Also, I think it needs to be noted that if you combine a particularly "skilled" dom with a fundamentally submissive person, the sub does not define the real boundaries -- altho she/he might harbor the illusion that she does. She/he is actually drawing the boundary that the dom wants and is being manipulated as well as dominated.
Interesting aside... we have laws about the "age of majority" based on the concept that certain people are not (because of their age) capable of giving their informed consent. Hmmm. Can a person who, for various psychological reasons, is fundamentally submissive give consent to be more so?
Look at the threads on this forum. How many are there where one person wants something the other does not... a threesome, a bj, more moaning... and see that it's just about always about power and self. However mild, it's about dominance and submission.
Personal opinion: Assuming total responsibility for another person's behavior and pleasure is fundamentally selfish -- doesn't matter how you justify it or what you call it.
I'd make a lousy dom. LMAO I'd rather empower.
what does lmao mean?
i have to disagree about the empowerment part- i think empowerment can be gained, in a way, from being disempowered in a way. for instance, someone who gave me structure and security that i am amazingly lacking in would therefore be allowing me to do far greater things for myself than i usually achieve, and fulfill much more potential. not to mention feel better, more peaceful, confident, calm, etc. i think abusive relations-disempowering ones- certainly exist in bdsm but to a lesser degree than in vanilla relations, since the whole thing relies on communication, trust, consent, etc. and i agree about everything else you said, appreciate your input.
Laughing My Ass Off.
Good points, Wally. As always, you're a joy to read.
[QUOTE=erin]...i have to disagree about the empowerment part- i think empowerment can be gained, in a way, from being disempowered in a way. for instance, someone who gave me structure and security that i am amazingly lacking in would therefore be allowing me to do far greater things for myself than i usually achieve, and fulfill much more potential. not to mention feel better, more peaceful, confident, calm, etc. i think abusive relations-disempowering ones- certainly exist in bdsm but to a lesser degree than in vanilla relations, since the whole thing relies on communication, trust, consent, etc. and i agree about everything else you said, appreciate your input.[/QUOTE]
In a sense, you are making my point and I'm not sure you do agree with everything else... Add it up, don't just pick the numbers. I would offer that someone who truly was interested in "empowering" you would show you how to develop the structure and security you lack. Anything less than that encourages dependence and dependence is the antithesis of empowerment.
Indeed one of the more difficult relationship struggles is the balance of individuals and the pair. We seem to think that relationships require sacrificing self to the each other in the interest of getting along, when it's really supposed to be about combining energies. That's another whole topic.
It is interesting that you are suggesting that dom/sub relationships are less likely to be abusive and disempowering. How does one define abuse and who writes the definition? There is such a thing as passive abuse and the fact that the person being abused gives permission to active or passive abuse makes it no less abusive. Parents love to claim they spank children for their own good. Now... if the child wants to be spanked... how can the spanking be effective? What does it accomplish? It gives the parent power and makes the child happy. It does not, however, alter the child's behavior.
Would we approve and cheer a parent who had that sort of relationship with their child? I think not. But, when we're talking about adults, if a spanker and spankee enjoy the activity, go for it! But let's not pretend we're engaging in developing human potential.
I also find the tendency of those attracted to bdsm to refer to non-bdsm relationships as "vanilla" a bit patronizing and insulting. I've heard this argument way too many times and simply don't buy it... there is nothing superior in terms of trust, consent, and communication about a bdsm or dom/sub relationship. The fact that a couple does NOT choose that lifestyle does not make them somehow "plain vanilla" or inferior. You may not have intended to imply that, but you are using the cult language and should be aware of it's affect on others.
We have many influences on us and, I think, it is difficult enough for us to sort through them to the point of being certain we know what we want and need. Given that, how much more difficult is it to determine what's best for someone else? There is a fundamental difference between helping someone become self-reliant versus making the decisions for them, effectively reinforcing the dependence. I certainly would question whether or not a "sub" is achieving more for themselves when the "dom" is deciding the what and how. Now if, as a sub, you feel comfortable and calm letting that happen, so be it - I consider you no less competent and certainly not inferior. I'm afraid, however, that the claim you are being "empowered" just doesn't ring true in the final analysis.
it is an interesting response. i am going to think about it awhile. i appreciate your input because it seems like your perspective is the opposite, or complement rather, of mine. apologies about the v word.
Erin, does your last name begin with an "O"?
[QUOTE=erin]it is an interesting response. i am going to think about it awhile. i appreciate your input because it seems like your perspective is the opposite, or complement rather, of mine. apologies about the v word.[/QUOTE]
Glad you found it interesting... I do enjoy making people think! (Is that empowering?) :) No problem with the "v word," I just find that there's a bit of cultism involved with the whole dom/sub thing and - contrary to much of the rhetoric - proponents do seem to think they are somehow "superior" to those who don't indulge. Interesting, because if you truly listen to the rhetoric, one of the ways doms maintain their position is by the sometimes not so subtle suggestion that they have special wisdom and abilities that include knowing what's best for their sub.
Keep thinking for yourself, Erin.
Ignorance is a plague. Thanks for helping others find the cure, Wally - we all appreciate it.
Thanks, Browser... as I've posted elsewhere this morning, I think the worst ignorance is the conclusion that one knows everything. In a centuries ago debating class, a very knowing professor used to make us debate in favor of the position that was opposite our beliefs.
So who wants to debate that the world is really flat? LOL
I also happen to believe that a lot of times knowing the right questions is more important than knowing the right answers to the wrong questions.
found this in castlerealm.com and thought it relevant :
"The dominant gives the orders that the submissive must follow. Sounds simple, right? Any good Republican might say, 'power flows down from the top.' Actually, it works the other way around in SM. The submissive obeys only because she chooses to. There is nothing compelling her obedience except her resolve. The submissive is, therefore, empowering the dominant by her decision. We call a consensual empowerment of the dominant by the submissive a power exchange. Just as she gave her consent, she can take it away at any time. Power in SM flows from the bottom up."
Screw the Roses, Send Me The Thorns
Miller & Devon (1995)
Mystic Rose Books
[QUOTE=WallyLlama]Thanks, Browser... as I've posted elsewhere this morning, I think the worst ignorance is the conclusion that one knows everything. [/quote]
I know I know nothing therefore I know more than you ;)
[quote=WallyLlama]In a centuries ago debating class, a very knowing professor used to make us debate in favor of the position that was opposite our beliefs.[/quote]
I'd hope that would be habit for most people.
[quote=WallyLlama]I also happen to believe that a lot of times knowing the right questions is more important than knowing the right answers to the wrong questions.[/QUOTE]
Do you, by any chance read Voltaire? If not, I think you'd like him:
"Judge of a man by his questions rather than by his answers."
Edit: good find, Erin!
I have recently met a very dominant man who is bringing out a submissive side to me. So far, I am finding that he is very trustworthy. I'm just slightly worried about being hurt by him, either physically or like I'm being used. Any suggestions on how to approach him for assurances that he will respect my needs?
People who decidely enter into a Dominant-submissive relationship usually negotiate the terms of the relationship: to what level of submission is the submissive willing to go and how much submission would the Dominant like at which point compromises will probably be made on both side-often leaving the possibility to renegotiate the terms in the future.You negotiate what sort of psychological treatment will happen and the sort of physical treatment. This means discipline and the sorts of mental, physical and sexual activities that will be involved. Do not get involved with someone who who shows the leats sign of abusing you. If you have any doubts just forget it. Trust, honesty, reliablity and responsibilty are of paramount importance. many couple draw up a contract of what is expected of each partner. the contract will be valid for a determined period and may be renegotiated at any time.
It is best for an inexperienced sub to start slowly with "limits" about where you want to go with this and how far you will go. As you become more accustomed the limits may be expanded or removed. If you have an inexperienced Dom you especially want to begin slowly. It's cool to take baby steps.
there is probably a D/s community near you which sponsors events for people who practice or are interested in this. You might want to get in touch with them and learn what they have to say. Just google DS, Ds D/s, Dominant submissive,. Power Exchange, TPE anything along those lines and maybe add the word community.
While the emotions and sensations which come from this are very real you need to remeber that this is really just and elaborate Role Playing Game. Many submissives have a safe word the utterance of which brings any and all activity to an immediate halt. It's an escape valve in case anything is going badly.
Well there are some things to think about. I would write more but i ned to get to work now.
I think the best thing to do is have an open talk with your partner. Tell him what he wants and tell him also what you want. What best works for this position. You want to be lick there or you want to be stimulated there, etc. stuffs like that.
Thank you, dlb. That was all very helpful.