I've got a slight dilemma about a woman I work with - hope you find it interesting, although in honesty I don't anticipate a resolution, but I do hope you find it entertaining.
For a while, I've really wanted to get into the 'free' scene - ie where friends have sex with friends, introduce others, they have sex, etc etc. Only I never made acquaintance with anyone who was already in it.
A girl at work is, for want of a better phrase, sexually liberated. Part of our jobs include going out on buses and ensuring standards are adhered to. A little while back we were sitting alone on the upper deck discussing - guess what - sex, she told me she was just splitting up with her boyfriend.
Now - being the decent fellow I am - I didn't want to muscle in on his relationship, even though it was clearly coming to an end. She complained he had slept with some other guys wife, at which point I said, "I would NEVER sleep with another guys wife". At one point during the convo, she jumped out of her seat behind me, sat up next to me, and said, "Yeah, but I think it's ok if it's only a girlfriend or boyfriend, don't you?"
I blushed mildly; I'd never been come onto by a woman THIS way, and made an attempted joke about my sheepishness; "If I were white, I'd be red, but as I'm brown, I must be going yellow!" She laughed kindly at my attempt, and no face was lost by either of us.
Which leads me smoothly, but not nicely, onto the next issue. Yellow. Part of the reason I rebuffed her was that she's...(sit down before you read on, here's where the story takes a very bumpy, very abrupt left turn)....
Half oriental. And has the eyes of a full oriental.
There, I said it. I am not turned on by oriental women. Never have been. It's something in my brain. For whatever reason of birth, subsequent hitting my head, I don't know, I am simply not attracted to oriental girls. I can look at one and recognise that she's pretty, average, or plain, but regardless, I will not be aroused. I have even visited porn sites with oriental models; nothing. It leaves me completely unmoved.
Do NOT get me wrong; as a man of tint myself (incidentally), I have nothing against them in any other facet of life, and am not the slightest bit racist about them in any other possible sense, and although I'm sure one or more of you may be shocked, I will be VERY offended by any accusation of bigotry; I'm perfectly happy to work with them, buy from or sell to them, chat to them in any social setting, have them around for dinner, whatever. But I don't want to take one to bed, that's all. You can throw all the Lucy Liu's and Tia Carrera's you want at me...nothing will happen. Hence why I cannot grant my dear colleague here wish.
So, could we please treat her ancestry as we would her build, height, eye colour, personality etc? It's never been any kind of big deal to me, until recently.
Moving back onto topic, my lady colleague, as much as she has the right ideas and repeatedly makes the same point along the lines of, "Friends should have sex, Angelina Jolie has sex with friends, wouldn't you like to have sex with her, eh Jay?" To which I reply, "Geez yeah."
Now, she doubtless has a circle of friends that I'd very much like to meet, but how do I do it WITHOUT having sex with her? In fact, circle or no circle, I'd very much LIKE our non-sexual friendship to be deeper, she's a lovely person, without having sex. But how could I play it so that she knows I'm not interested in her, but only PHYSICALLY? I couldn't tell her that I don't get off on oriental girls, that'd enrage her.
I appreciate the irony here; most guy/girl relationships are the polar opposite of the above, the guy pushing for sex on Day 1, and the girl holding back until she's emotionally ready. And here I am, with a problem that most other guys would give their back teeth for...
Jaybee.
Wally,
I'm glad we've found common ground, if not high ground. Just as you mistook me for an American (I'm British Asian*, btw), I too assumed your laws were similar to our own, and my memory belied my worldliness; I failed to remember that the US is the planet's most litigious society, when expressing my astonishment at a woman suing for being sexually rebuffed. I do also remember that the US workplace is one of the greatest milking grounds for ambulance chasers; hence, I'm equally at fault, so I guess if we're not on high ground, we're at least on even ground now.
I've never viewed machiavellianism as anything other than beneficial, personally speaking. What some term 'cynical manipulation', others term, 'Playing the field'. I'm simply being honest with you as to my intentions. In any case, girls almost never announce straightaway whether they've decided never to have sex with a guy; I see no reason to be any more generous with information. You can get what you want in life without hurting people, you simply need to be a tad more subtle. I certainly do, that's for sure...
As for my female colleague/friend, I will be as good a friend to her as she dictates - up to THAT aforementioned point. Going back to world locations here for a moment, let me tell you that we Londoners are a rough, tough breed, and that includes our womenfolk too. I was warned once by one of your countrymen to avoid NY unless I wanted my faith in humanity utterly trampled; ha. I went in '02, and felt completely at home, the shoving of other passengers in the overcrowded Subway trains, the elbowing to get to the bargains in the store, rude shopowners.
I felt like I was still in London, but someone had changed the signs...
It takes a LOT to hurt what feelings we have. My point here is that my friend Sharon is a similarly tough little cookie, and at 32 she's not a naive schoolgirl any more. I won't hurt her feelings by adhering to principles, but I DON'T think she's smart enough to appreciate why I won't have sex with her. I'm clever enough to get what I want, and give her what SHE wants, aside from sex, without hurting anyone in the process.
Vagabond - it's a tough thing to describe. I could no more have sex with an oriental woman than you could with a horse, it's just not in the future. Many people are turned on by 'fringe' fetishes, like leather or whatnot. I'm turned OFF by something that's absolutely mainstream; the oriental facial architecture. There's just something about it, especially among women, that I find off-putting at the cellular level. Put it this way; if my parents had decided to move to Hong Kong instead before I was born, and my only sexual outlet were orientals, I would be in serious need of a shrink by now.
There are non-oriental guys who are turned ON by oriental women much more so than others; although I'll never share their passion, I APPLAUD it.
Jaybee.
*UK English:
Asian = Subcontinental, ie of or originating from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka
Indian = (East) Indian, of or originating from India.
(we do not yet view the term 'Red Indian' as offensive, although I personally know America well enough to use 'Native American' when visiting).
i'm just a bit curious...are you so turned off by asians that you wouldn't be able to sleep with her once to possibly get into her circle of sex crazy friends? once you've done so you might realize you kind of like it...anyway, it may really be too hard for you, but if not, an open mind about things might get you a long way in this situation. and if you're worried about her blabbing about doing it with you, it's not really a lie telling her you have a policy against sleeping with work colleagues.
I did, frankly, assume you were in the United States. How easy it is to forget the global aspect of the Internet! So perhaps the legal risk is not the same. I can assure you that in the US my concerns are anything but "absurd." I am, however, a bit puzzled by some inconsistencies in your points regarding the legalities of discussing sex on the job, but it's of no consequence to me.
I have nothing against casual sex... in fact, I could use a little more myself.
I'm certainly not judging your agenda, but legal aspects aside, I think your approach to getting what you want has a number of risks associated with it. If you choose to take those risks, it's fine with me.
You're using words like "maneuvering" her and "manipulating" the situation to get what you want. That borders on predatory behavior. You are certainly within your rights to engage the approach you've already decided to use; I merely am pointing out that you are increasing the risk of a problem if things don't go exactly as you want them too.
My sense of your post is that you are worried about being "tactically sound." That's not a bad thing. I'd feel better if you had mentioned being worried about the gal... her thoughts and feelings and how she fits into your grand plan. Withholding the truth is not the measure of compassion, Mate. You say you know her better than I do... that's obvious. What are her desires and her fears? What would she hope to gain from being your friend? I don't need to know the answers; I hope you do.
You asked for opinion, I gave mine. I don't feel a strong need to debate my opinion with you point by point.
Duplicate.
Triplicate (Aaaaargh!)
[quote=WallyLlama,Feb. 10 2005,03:58][/quote]
[QUOTE=Quote ]I think I am totally confused. It can't be this simple: there's a girl at work who you would love to "use" to talk about sex with(getting quite stimulated in the process) and get to meet her friends who you hope are "sexually liberated," but you also don't want to touch her in the process because you don't find her attractive?[/QUOTE]
Yep, it is indeed as simple as that. I don't want to have sex with her, I want it with her friends.
[QUOTE=Quote ]If that's any where near right, I'm afraid I can't be of much help.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate the directness, if not the policy.
[QUOTE=Quote ]If you're going to pretend to take the high road, be aware that you are treading on legally dangerous ground already. You've stepped off the high road. [/QUOTE]
Now I think I'M the one who'se totally confused.
[QUOTE=Quote ]
IF she is looking for some action and you refuse it, she probably has grounds for filing a sexual harassment complaint against you.[/QUOTE]
You do realise how absurd that statement is? I don't work in a brothel. One cannot otherwise be fired for refusing sex. But if you mean she'll play 'a woman scorned', I wouldn't put it past her, being the flaky character she is, to blab to management, although it's nonetheless very unlikely that she actually will. But again, one cannot be fired for DISCUSSING sex, at least not for the first offence.
[QUOTE=Quote ]What if one her liberated friends works with you and you find her attractive? Are you going to change your "firm policy?"[/QUOTE]
Well that would depend on how "firm" her friend makes me, heh...
No, of course not. That said, I doubt she has any female friends in the organisation, she is the only female in our squad of 15, and it is a very large Government body. Our Employment Law with regards to sexual relations between working colleagues may differ slightly from yours (I presume you're American), so even if she did, and I slept with one of them and things turned sour, my job would not be at risk.
[QUOTE=Quote ]I can hear it now. "Oh so I'm good enough for you to get your rocks off talking to but not good enough to have sex with?"[/QUOTE]
Hopefully I'll have long since averted such a statement by maneouvreing her into agreeing with me. But the statement would be correct.
[QUOTE=Quote ]The "free scene" is a myth. Everything costs something and every decision and action has consequences.
[/QUOTE]
I don't doubt that all actions have reactions, but casual sex is my goal, and casual sex is what I'll get. I'll deal with the consequences, if any, as they and I come.
[QUOTE=Quote ]Frankly, it sounds to me like you are leading this girl on for your own selfish purpose.[/QUOTE]
What's selfish about wanting to have sex, Wally? What makes you think she won't end up VOLUNTEERING to hook me up with one of her friends?
[QUOTE=Quote ]A little honesty might go a long way.[/QUOTE]
I don't propose lying to her, but it would be foolhardy to tell her why I don't want to have sex with her. With all due respect mate, I know her, you don't. She is already the blabbermouth of our squad, which is the third of three equally valid reasons I don't want to have sex with HER, along with the aforementioned two.
I wish I had a better 'in' into the circles in which she mixes, but I don't, so I'll manipulate the situation in the tactically soundest manner I know.
Jaybee.
I think I am totally confused. It can't be this simple: there's a girl at work who you would love to "use" to talk about sex with(getting quite stimulated in the process) and get to meet her friends who you hope are "sexually liberated," but you also don't want to touch her in the process because you don't find her attractive?
If that's any where near right, I'm afraid I can't be of much help.
If you're going to pretend to take the high road, be aware that you are treading on legally dangerous ground already. You've stepped off the high road. IF she is looking for some action and you refuse it, she probably has grounds for filing a sexual harassment complaint against you. What if one her liberated friends works with you and you find her attractive? Are you going to change your "firm policy?"
I can hear it now. "Oh so I'm good enough for you to get your rocks off talking to but not good enough to have sex with?"
The "free scene" is a myth. Everything costs something and every decision and action has consequences.
Frankly, it sounds to me like you are leading this girl on for your own selfish purpose.
A little honesty might go a long way.
I very definitely see where you're going, and you make it sound quite simple, I'm glad to note. Keep talking about sex, yet if the topic of HER getting some with me comes up, politely play the 'colleague' card - which IS a good one, you're quite right there - and carry on talking about sex.
I'll need to work on making the 'No sex with colleagues' speech sound genuine, and well-meant. I think it'd be enough to feign a quick glance of appreciation at her physique, along with a sigh, to convey the "I would, otherwise" part.
As long as I can do this, even talking about sex with her would be a big turn on with me. I'm one of those guys who threw off societies chains a little later in life than most others who did (36). I remember a short while back, discussing sexual fantasies with my dad's secretary, who was a lesbian, and it was one of the most thrilling experiences ever.
I mean, to finally talk openly about with someone who doesn't feel threatened by you, who knows there is no sexual tension BETWEEN you both, and with whom you can talk more freely than with a straight girl or a guy, that was utterly fantastic. We discussed how incredibly attractive Jodie Foster was, and in a slightly boozy, tongue-loosened moment I mentioned I had a picture at home I'd jacked off to - and she described the same picture in near perfect detail - she had done the same! I can tell you I had to adjust my seating several times, and the twitching corners of her mouth betrayed her feigning ignorance of my condition...
Of course, this is probably no big deal to you guys; for all my intelligence, I often feel like a gauche schoolboy embarrassed by his own erection around here!
Jaybee
Well....there are ways of being honest without being hurtful. I think your logic is flawed if you think you CAN'T talk about casual sex with her and HAVE to have sex with her!
Now, first off you must have to have the desire to have casual sex, so, let's assume for this post that you do.
The next time the subject of sex comes up just say somethign like this:
"Ya know, i have been thinking about it, and yea, i think it's possible to have a sexual thing with a female friend and try not to get emotionally involved....and you know, i'm really turned on by women who have (hair color, body type, etc).
The key is to talk about sex, but reinforce the kind of female you're attracted to sexually.
Your BIG OUT is that if she said, "would u mess aorund with me?" you simply say, "Ya know what, probably, but i have a FIRM POLICY OF NOT GETTING INVOLVED WIHT PEOPLE I WORK WITH"
Aside from the fact that is IS A GOOD POLICY, its a good way of bypassing her less-than-subtle come-on to you.
You can get more "personal" by talking about your masturbation fanatsies, or the porno tapes you watch (all which reinforce the kind of woman you see yourself having sex with).....do you see where i'm going here?
What do you thinK?