Circumcisions & cervical cancer - whats the greater good?

[Mr. Saint]

For some reason this issue has some of the worst science sounding it, on both sides. Both sides of this argument are making illogical and emotional arguments. Most of the studies on this issue are completely flawed. For example, saying that because Israel practices circumcision and have lower rates of cervical cancer dose not mean a whole lot. It is using a correlative study to show cause and effect, very common error in reviewing statistical analysis. I don’t have a problem with men wanting to get circumcised or even there partners requesting that they do. That is all a matter of preference. In the US we have a right to “security of our body”. Meaning that from the time of birth, no one has the right to invade our bodies without our consent. For some reason people tend to over look this little right (Also comes up with abortion rights). If you decide that you want to get circumcised go right ahead. But I believe that unless it is medically necessary to be preformed right at that time and you can’t make the decision for your self, then it can not be forced on you. I agree that there may be benefits, I even considered it for my self, but you can not force a medical procedure on some one of any age.

[sera300]

All studies are flawed or skewed--margins of error +/- X. Clinical practice causes one to see the outcomes of studies positive or negative.

The "invasion of a body" is done through parental/implied consent for those who are minors [or for those which lack mental capacity & have a guardian] and try to make the best informed choices for those who cannot. The right to a TOP; is based upon one who can make a choice, is fully informed. Roe v. Wade dealt with those of age of majority.

For those who are minors, there are many steps prior to performing a Termination.

[DVDBear]

Originally Posted by Brandye

You have read, perhaps, one thread here this Board regarding circumcision. There are dozens. When men argue against circumcision "because of diminished sexual satisfaction" I have difficulty accepting that as other than emotional.

I know you're well aware of many credible studies that at least concede that it's entirely possible this procedure leads to diminished sensation (not to mention tons of personal testaments), and if you're not I'd be happy to post links, but I credit you with being more informed than that. I don't have a problem with pro-circ arguments based in studies that are able to be referenced and debated. But to dismiss out of hand anyone who argues otherwise is only having an emotional response is ridiculous. We don't have to come to an agreement but can we at least respect each other's intelligence, please?

[Mr. Saint]

Originally Posted by DVDBear

We don't have to come to an agreement but can we at least respect each other's intelligence, please?

Thank you, I know this is a controversial issue, but it would be great if we can all be civil about this. So please, to everyone, lay off the ad hominem attacks.

[DVDBear]

I didn't see my post as an attack, ad hominem or otherwise. Since I have been one of the men Brandye referenced as having argued this point in previous threads I did take her comment personally. It was a blunt reaction to a blunt comment but my apologies if it seemed uncivil.

[Mr. Saint]

Originally Posted by DVDBear

I didn't see my post as an attack, ad hominem or otherwise. Since I have been one of the men Brandye referenced as having argued this point in previous threads I did take her comment personally. It was a blunt reaction to a blunt comment but my apologies if it seemed uncivil.

I was thanking you and agreeing with the post I quoted.

[DVDBear]

Oops. My bad.

[TLCTugger]

Originally Posted by Mr. Saint

Most of the studies on this issue are completely flawed. For example, saying that because Israel practices circumcision and have lower rates of cervical cancer dose not mean a whole lot. It is using a correlative study to show cause and effect, very common error

Indeed. The Israel Medical Association does not recommend routine circumcision. Their web site hosts the following study write-up, which debunks the link between cervical cancer and an intact male:
http://www.ima.org.il/imaj/ar03feb-11.pdf

-Ron

[TLCTugger]

Originally Posted by Brandye

I am a woman and a physician. In both roles, I encourage circumcision

I would think any physician who wanted to remain board certified and insurable would:

1) Honor the AMA line with respect to the evidence not supporting a recommendation for routine circumcision. (In fact, no national association of doctors anywhere on earth recommends routine circumcision, yet here on this forum we are blessed with an expert, surpassing the wisdom of the deliberative committees of ALL of them. The majesty.)

2) Carry out the duty of giving patients all the information and letting them make an informed choice without coercion.

Such a physician might wish to note that 95% of the non-Muslim world does not circumcise. Circumcision is abnormal.

[sera300]

Whomever is beginning this nonsense, these random posters attacking a physicians opinion which deals with medical health, should begin to rethink their philosophy.

As I said yesterday...if men feel this strongly please talk the the US GYN/Peds & Who regarding your concerns and influence these men as to what you feel is proper.

Yes, I feel so bed men get a slice; meanwhile, women have sexual issues from routine procedures ongoing. Go figure. Muslims feel its abnormal practice--their choice. Religion is not a main issue; disease in the US is.

Perhaps I should ask a few of my US colleagues, they are Board Certified experts in the field to log on, and explain why it's performed.

On a overall a routine circumcision at birth is really not much compared to the life-long issues women experience.

I'll ask these Board certified MEN to log in if this is such a debate and they can explain taking the pressure off women. Since we are the one's who get these lovely diseases from men...spouses included. Why? Their choice was to lie.

What's up with the attack on Brandye? Disdain for a Female Doc?