Not all women enjoy penetration dude. I mean, I can sometimes get stimulated like that but then again, there are those times it does nothing for me.

I'm not great on the advice, but I've encountered similiar situations with my girlfriend.. Where rarely it's just something going in and out without her feeling any pleasure. You've been with her for 4 years now so I assume you've gotten her all hot and turned on? I dunno, whenever I get my girlfriend super hot and all in the mood, she feels everything double the feeling.

I'm a woman, and although I do enjoy having all my vagina explored, I only have 2 spots that work for me: the clit and my g-spot.

He can touch everywhere else but those 2 stops will guarantee him that i'll be in the mood.

my first reaction was that you might be using too much lubricant. my tightness changes depending on the time of the month, and at times i feel that using lubricant takes the plesure away so we just wipe it off and get me wet naturally.

firgering is also a good way of getting a girl off, you'll have to get her to talk to you show exactly what feels good. the only way to do that is for her to explore her own body so then she can tell you exactly what and where, if you knwo what i mean. otherwise you can spend an eternity touching, liking etc and still be no where near to pleasing her.

my boyfriend pays a lot of attention to my nipples - works!

oral sex feels good at times, if her clit is the place that gives her pleasure sack it man!

in all seriousness though, you guys just have to talk.

it's like when one realises that some food makes them ill. first they cut everything out and then introduce food one by one at the same time monitoring how their body reacts. eventually, the diet is figured out and the person is well.

you guys just have to introduce one thing at a time and see how you get on. best of luck! :)

So basically what you're saying is you love this girl, you've been with her and invested 4 years of your life with her, but if she can't have a healthy sex drive then there will be problems?

It's like you're saying your relationship is nothing but sex...if you don't have it then screw the relationship...have you stopped and thought about how she may feel that she can't give this too you? I'm sure she feels crappy about it, I know I would. But at the same time feeling crappy she's thinking, "But he loves me...sex doesn't have to be the defining factor with us."

I'd feel sorry for all the impotent men in the world if their wives left them when they learned they wouldn't be able to have children or couldn't perform in bed....

I'd have to concur there are some future relationship problems... and, until you get to the bottom of the current problem the outlook is not great - not because she finds sex painful.

I see two other problems. One is that you've apparently found it difficult to share this problem openly... you only recently discovered that it is still hurting her, etc. Two is that from your description sexual pleasure is "low on her list of priorities" and - by implication - she is less than willing to consider your needs and feelings.

In other words, this could be any other one of a hundred relationship issues. Unless you both can find a solution that works for both of you... well...

There are some inconsistencies within this, though... she finds sex painful and doesn't enjoy it, but has orgasmed? (I assume "sex" in this case means penetration only?) Penetration is not required to enjoy each other... but she's also not interested in oral? I see that as significant. You wrote, "it's all connected with the thought of something she doesn't enjoy," so the question is does she enjoy anything?

There is one possibility that hasn't been mentioned yet... some of this could be emotional in nature, particularly if the physical has been eliminated with a doctor's help. It does need to be explored because what you are describing is your feeling of a lack of intimacy that has resulted. That's the problem that ultimately has to be solved.

Um, I know this is going to sound stupid, please forgive me. For 3 months I had the most frustrating problem: getting my gf to orgasm. She had problems because she would always think about it way too much and throw herself off.

Then, one day everything changed. We were drunk and during that state, things are more likely to happen. I went down on her and she orgasmed quickly. Ever since that day, I can make her orgasm extremely fast from oral. Now with the fingering thing, again, never worked until she stopped thinking about it. How? Sounds silly, but drunk again! We were both drunk just laying in bed and I put my finger down there and started rubbing. Within 2 minutes she was telling me what she liked, how she wanted it, and that she wanted to be ****ed afterwards.

I know we sound like a bunch of drunks, but actually we have only drank on four occassions since being together (1 yr 3 mo).

Maybe this is totally irrelevant and will not work, but try it sometime? I'm not saying just get her drunk to test things, but when're you're both drunk together having fun with friends...I duno worked for me?

OKay, so you're not as bad as I thought you were at first...and thank you for clearing up some of the issues.

It's great that you're worried about her being in pain while having sex (shows you care about her and that although you get pleasure from sex, you're aware that in order to that she gets hurt, which you don't seem happy to do). My honest advice, if she needs privacy to get in the mood, then why don't you try getting your own place together? She may be in the mood more.

I don't know how to explain the pain during sex...I'm no doctor...but it could be connected emotionally somehow.

Does she want children one day? --random question but it connects with the pain during sex.

the question is, can you still be with her and not have sex and be happy?

I ask the childbearing question because if having sex to MAKE a baby hurts her, how is going to actually go through the birth? I mean, I've seen birthing videos...it looks like pure Hell.

And I can understand the fear of cheating on her if your needs aren't met...I wouldn't recommended it but I can see where you're coming from.

From a female point of view, I don't know how long I could stand a relationship that was a life-long love without sex. To me, the thing that makes love for a husband different from a love for a close friend IS sex, so I find sexual things (orgasms, etc) to be quite vital to a relationship.

I feel that too, but I don't believe it's the sole part of the relationship: it's a PART of it and yeah, that part may not be as best as the others, but at least you have something...then again I'm just old fashioned like that.

I agree with Lackadaisical but you two need to find a sex therapist, they do exist and I heard they do wonders for sex-life.

I had a lot of pain for a long time when i first started having sex. Later I came to realize that it was all emotional/psychological. I was not really comfortable having sex no matter how much I tried to convince myself. I was brought up religious so I felt guilty, I was feminist so I was fearful that I was being used, and I was abused as a child. It wasn't until I got over all this and went out for a relaxing night of bonding with my bf that I relaxed and started to feel good.

[QUOTE=Billywitchdoctor]2. WallyLlama, ... Do you see what I mean now???
[/QUOTE]

Yes and no. What I heard the first time is that she's been to the doctor and there is no physical reason for the pain... it now sounds like another doctor visit is in order.

One additional observation based on the new information is that clearly the deck is stacked against you in terms of resolving the problem. You simply don't have the opportunity for privacy, etc. that allows the problem to be explored and resolved... in that regard, you don't sound like an old married couple, you sound like a couple of sneaky teenagers. (Not trying to be insulting.)

The thing I still don't "see" is why you seem to think this is only about painful penetration. Where you are right now is that she's not (apparently) going to enjoy penetration and you aren't ready to marry a woman you can't penetrate. But you need to look beyond that. She doesn't like sex, pleasure (including yours?) is low on her priorities. As long as that's the case... plus you have no real opportunities... the "painful penetration" problem is NOT likely to go away - it's just another part of a bigger issue - you and her are worlds apart on the importance of pleasure and how to achieve it.

You are correct when you say it is all connected; you are probably incorrect if you think everything she thinks, feels, and does or doesn't do is based on the fact that penetration is painful. Your "guess" that it's an intimacy problem may be correct, but do not assume the intimacy issues are caused by painful penetration.

It's equally illogical to assume she doesn't like sex/pleasure because she can't "return the favor" due to (here we go again) painful penetration. There are many ways she could give you pleasure - or more nearly correct there are many ways you both could communicate and feel intimacy.

So why aren't you?

Billy, your situation sounds quite a bit like mine. My boyfriend and I are 22, at school, and are living with parents/roommates. I also am sqeamish about oral sex and don't find intercourse to be as stimulating as most people. here's some thoughts i had as a girl kind of in your girlfriend's situation:

1. You might be able to do oral at some point. I was really freaked out by it for a while, I'm still not too comfortable with it. But my boyfriend has been really good about expressing his desires to do it, encouraging me, complimenting me. And I've gradually gotten more used to it. Even if I'm freaked out, I try to relax anyway. Your girlfriend might get into it after a while too if you encourage it (it's hard to do that without feeling like you're nagging though). And make sure you're really listening to her if she is able to give you instruction, or check out the oral technique threads.

2. the pain. I agree that it's probably psychological. not in the sense that she's just imagining it, but in the sense that she's not psychologically comfortable with something which causes her body to react. Part of it could definitely be the living situation. I think that guys sometimes can't understand exactly how important that kind of thing is for us girls. It's really hard for me to be in the mood when I'm worried about kicking out my roommate or someone walking in. I know your situation doesn't seem likely to change, but that doesn't mean it's not a factor. But in general, you might want to see some sort of counselor. I've thought of that for myself, as I feel like my religious background and stuff has affected my sex-drive.

it might, however, be physical though. maybe the doctors just haven't figured it out yet. and if it is physical and you're treating it like it's psychological, she might get more upset. man, women are so sensitive. i'm sorry.

3. it sounds like you're a really caring guy and it's great that you're trying to get her help and it sounds like you're going about it pretty well. i commend you for that. i agree that you deserve to have your needs considered as well as hers. and I'd say it's a pretty good sign that she's having orgasms at all. I never have, so at least you're ahead of me in that respect!

I hope some of this helped you. keep us updated!

It's possible there's a psychological problem. Was she sexually abused as a child? For women, sex can be very psychological, and if there is a problem in their mind, it can completely prevent arousal.

[QUOTE=Billywitchdoctor]
WallyLlama, she has been to her GYN before and asked about the pain during penetration. He gave her a dilator to put inside her for like 10 minutes a day to stretch things since he just thought she might be tight. Obviously it didn't fix it so that wasn't the problem, hence I think she needs to go back and see if there's something else he can do. As far as your doubts on my theories, she TOLD me that the thought of pain during penetration is what makes her reluctant to do sexual stuff. My hope is that once we get a place together, she can relax and begin to enjoy it, and as a result have a motivation to do it more often. But I guess only time will tell.[/QUOTE]

It's been said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I'm quite confident that hope will not make this problem go away.

The simple fact she TOLD you she doesn't want to do stuff because of penetration pain doesn't mean she's right. (I understand she may believe that.) That is not a rational statement. People sometimes eat too much or the wrong thing and get sick. Does that mean they can't stand the thought of eating any more?

The bigger deal here is that you and she are miles apart on the entire issue. Sex is a big deal for you; she says it's not for her. To some extent, it doesn't matter what the reason is.

Just make it a different issue. Child-bearing has been brought into this.

Let's say she couldn't stand the thought of the pain associated with having a child... and let's say that you wanted children more than anything. Would you say there's a problem?

You think she needs to go back to the gyn... has she? What happens when you suggest it?

Hoping she will relax and enjoy it is not going to get you very far because she's already pretty much told you it ain't gonna change because it's "not a big deal" and you should find someone else if you can't accept it. Even you have said "the hard part" is "getting her motivated to do somthing about it."

One question that needs to be asked: did she use the dilator as instructed? Has she continued to use it?

There are red flags waving all over the place.

She hasn't said... "Well, maybe when we get some privacy so I can relax... I could go back to the gyn... maybe there are some other things we could do to give you pleasure..."

What she has said is "Maybe you should go find somebody else."

Are you listening to her?

I agree with WallyLlama.

It's never easy to ask yourself that question but sometimes, you have too.

[QUOTE=Billywitchdoctor]Thanks for understanding Lass. I'd love for us to get a place together, but for right now at least, we're both going to school and neither one has any money to move out. Hopefully when and if we do, it will help part of the problem: her being able to get in the mood, but then there's still the pain during intercourse. I don't know what to do about that. I think maybe she should see another doctor, since her OB/GYN didn't seem to do anything helpful. We both would like to have children some day... why do you ask? To answer your last question, I am very happy to be with her, but I am afraid that our sexual relationship will diminish to nothing if we can't fix this, and if I don't have my needs fulfilled I'm afraid I'd do something stupid like cheat on her. I absolutely would never want to do that, but I'm afraid that I would really be tempted to.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you seem like a good guy and, unfortunately, I can relate to your situation quite well.

I will tell you this: it will not get better on its own. In fact, it will get worse. It sounds like you have gotten by on very little sex with the idea that she would one day feel comfortable enough to enjoy it. That is an admirable gesture on your part, but she has already demonstrated that that isn't going to happen; 4 years is a long time.

If you need sex to be a part of your relationship, then I'm afraid you two have a tough road ahead. When you are in love, sex is a natural act; there's nothing wrong with you feeling a need to make love to the woman you love so don't let anybody convince you that you are "wrong" for needing sex.

If pain was her only problem, and if she knows this is important to you, she would be willing to engage in all sorts of non-penetration activities. So you need to find out why she has no interest in being intimate with you.

Things to consider: Has she ever been abused in any way? Does she take medications? Do you have any other relationship problems?

Listen to a man who has been through this: NIP THIS IN THE BUD RIGHT NOW BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER WITH THIS RELATIONSHIP.

You already said you might feel compelled to cheat in the future. That should tell you that you can't continue to live this way. You're going to have to make her face up to this because she has had 4 years to get comfortable with a virtually sexless relationship. You might have to get firm about this to get her attention.

[QUOTE=Billywitchdoctor]Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I really don't know where this relationship is headed, but I'm going to promise to myself that I'm not going to propose or marry her if things don't start going in my favor a little more. It's really hard for me because she doesn't even want to talk about it most of the time even when I try. To reply to some of the things people have said, I don't know for how long she tried using the dilator, but I know she stopped. Now as far as the abuse thing... there was a rumor in high school that something happened between her and this guy where he forced her into giving him a handjob. I don't know if it was true or not since it was her word against his. Her parents also went through a divorce when she was about 8 years old because her dad left her mom for another woman. Who knows if that has any part in it.

The main thing is that like some of you have said, it is probably doubtful that it will change. I only hope that we can get our own place (or own places) to spend some more alone time with each other to see if anything changes. It might take some time, but I love her and I think it is worth it to make sure that I'm not throwing away something that could have been great if I just waited a little while longer.[/QUOTE]

I think your head is in the right place on this.

She very well could have some mental hangups regarding sex based upon the events of her past. If so, some counseling would be in order.

One statement alarms me: "It's really hard for me because she doesn't even want to talk about it most of the time even when I try...."

This sounds way too familiar to me. I can assure you that if she won't even discuss it, then you have 0% chance of ever having a sex life. If you honestly can handle that for the rest of your life, then you two can be happy. But if you have a need to have an intimate relationship with your wife-to-be (and obviously you do), then you've got trouble.

You will eventually have to "shock" her into dealing with this. You present her with two options: either (1.) she makes a concerted effort to "fix" the problem or (2.) your relationship will have to end.

If she loves you enough, she'll get serious about it real fast. If not, then at least you have spared both of you from being stuck in a loveless marriage in the future.

I know how she feels on the topic of not wanting to talk about it...but even to me, four years seems like a long time to ignore a problem. I don't understand how she can not want any form of pleasure, but she obviously doesn't...why though? What does she want from you? What do you want from her? If she's telling you to leave her....maybe she's not as committed as you are, or as you feel she ought to be. Sex can be a BIG issue...and a lack of it can be even bigger. In my opinion, you NEED to talk to her about this. Even if she blows you off, she needs to be aware that this is important to you (just talking about it, at least). If she's not willing to do even that much for you...it just doesn't seem right. You're respecting her needs/wants, and have been for four years. You need a turn to be respeted too, if you want to look at it very simplisticly.
Good luck to you, and I highly advise taking to her, no matter how uncomfortable you each may feel. If you want to marry her, you damn well better be able to talk to her.

[QUOTE=Lackadaisical]I know how she feels on the topic of not wanting to talk about it...but even to me, four years seems like a long time to ignore a problem. I don't understand how she can not want any form of pleasure, but she obviously doesn't...why though? What does she want from you? What do you want from her? If she's telling you to leave her....maybe she's not as committed as you are, or as you feel she ought to be. Sex can be a BIG issue...and a lack of it can be even bigger. In my opinion, you NEED to talk to her about this. Even if she blows you off, she needs to be aware that this is important to you (just talking about it, at least). If she's not willing to do even that much for you...it just doesn't seem right. You're respecting her needs/wants, and have been for four years. You need a turn to be respeted too, if you want to look at it very simplisticly.
Good luck to you, and I highly advise taking to her, no matter how uncomfortable you each may feel. If you want to marry her, you damn well better be able to talk to her.[/QUOTE]

She obviously has something going on inside her that causes her to have a disdain for sex. Billy seems like a good guy (and not a pushy guy) and she is taking advantage of this. It is easier for her to just not face up to the problem because he attempts to not upset her about it.

However, if Billy ever wants this to change, he will have to "shock" her into change. THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN NOW, BILLY. DON'T WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE MARRIED.

I know this problem well. I wish I wasn't an expert on this subject, but I am.

"Maybe you should go find somebody else."

That statment still keeps sticking to me. She's either (1) not very committed and just doesn't know how to end it so she uses the sex problem as to cause a problem (2) gets annoyed with you for being so persistent (which you should be to some degree) or (3) has really low self-estem (sp) and you bringing up only hurts her, thus why she says that.

Before my current bf I had low self-estem due to a number of reasons, but mostly the men I choose for myself...and now, although I know I'm beautiful and deseriable, I still have those days were I just don't feel like that. I don't know if this is her problem Billy but perhaps she has low self-estem in the bedroom. I mean, is she shy when you guys actually do it?

Just a few thoughts.