I don't know if the mods will shut this thread down, but I think Scientology's effect on legitimate psychology and psychiatric practices won't be much. When you've got Tom Cruise out there acting like a loon I really don't think that many people take them seriously. I admit they have a LOT of money and are sue happy but if they've been fighting this "war" practically since their inception with little impact.

Really? I think Tom Cruise really needs a good psychologist...

But they may actually have a point. For the most part psycology isn't doing people any favors. Obviously some people do require medication, but there are plenty being prescribed dangerous, unnecessary drugs for bull**** "diseases" like ADD and depression. They're like candy stores, except with drugs. So yeah - **** them!

You lost me on what you are referencing/citing. What happened????:confused:

Why would anyone ban you often people discuss religious topic and interests here. As long as no one converts me; I am happy! I am Catholic but that does not mean I "believe" as taught or even really believe in the religion [or any one religion] at this time. I maintain explaining what I was "taught", only to shed light on issues; however it's such a dichotomy. Have a marriage annulled in the Church? Then you are deemed as never "married"--go figure. I maintain what I do know [in religion] due to my brother's & wife's choice to raise their children Catholic & I am the God parent.:eek::eek:

Oed...I needed depression meds for a while...Im glad psychologists exist cuz I reached a real reckless point in my life...didnt care about anything, use to do 90 and 100 down streets...Found out it was all depression...which by the way isnt bull****.

Mom went through post-partem depression...Lucky for me and my sis there was meds cuz who knows what could have happened.

Ducy - you don't need pills to make you happy. People these days just don't want to be responsible for their feelings so they look for medical excuses. Every teenager in the world that ever had someone dump them suddenly think they suffer from depression... Relying on medication for things that can be fixed without it doesn't do anyone any favors. In fact, I'm 100% sure it creates even more issues. People need to learn how to deal with their personal problems on their own. There aren't any magic pills that can make it all just go away.

Yes, I was once "diagnosed with depression" as a teenager. Guess what - They were wrong. Been there, done that. There's no medical cause for teenage angst...

Of course some teens just suffer plain old teenage hormones. But considering the fact that both sides of my family go through it, its basically genetic, I wouldnt think it to be bull...

I did try the alternatives. Such as running. (More endorphins=elevated moods) didnt help...lasted about 20 minutes and then back to that crappy feeling. And no it wasnt cuz my girlfriend.

It had started before we even got together, pretty much hit high school and just felt crappy, sad, and didnt wanna live. No doctor I talked to (or psychologist) thought this was teenage angest.

Thank god for welbutrin

[QUOTE=Ducy;208779]pretty much hit high school and just felt crappy, sad, and didnt wanna live.[/QUOTE]

So basically what you're saying is that you were just a normal teenager, then?

Sorry, but being sad and wallowing in self-pity doesn't mean that there's something medically wrong with you. Everyone in this world is fully responsible for their emotions. They don't control you; you control them. You want to be happy? Then CHOOSE to be. Don't ever think that you need drugs to do that. I don't care who you are or what the hell you've been through - it's up to you and you alone. Surely your girlfriend has taught you something about overcoming things?

Perhaps a better question is: What price are you paying for that synthetic happiness? Are you even YOU anymore?

Do some research on Wesley Willis. The guy had severe schizophrenia and there weren't enough pills in the world to help him. But he still managed to do something positive with his life and fought his demons by making music. If someone that got that bum of a hand can live a moderately happy life, anyone can...

Self pity? Believe me oed I cared nothing for myself...I could care a less about what others thought of me and I spent most of my time helping others...

If waking up every morning trying to figure out a reason to live. Being terrified to sleep at night because of the unknown, seing something happy and not feeling a single emotion phase through your body is just good old normal teenager than this is one screwed up world. And I dont take medication anymore...a few months and then i got off...ANd synthetic happiness...depression meds dont make you happy...they help you reach square 0 so that you can function enough to try and be happy.

Oh and yea so that guy managed to control schizophrenia without pills? Guess what? I bit through my bottom lip and got 13 stitches without pain meds. Wisdom teeth pulled...took vicodin the first day (couldnt remember it since I was out the whole time) next morning woke up ate a sandwich and nachos. (although many people I know couldnt eat for weeks.)

My point? Some people can handle mental things no problem. Others can handle physical things no problem. Played a whole basketball game with two broken fingers. (shooting hand) and still scored 16 points and was pointguard. Our shooting guard jammed a finger and had to be escorted off the court cuz it hurt so much.

Depression is also a documented medical condition. I mean hell they have proven it through medical tests with levels of brain chemicals.

And if you are responsible for your emotions, then how come people get off on murder for temporary insanity due to loss of emotion control?

And you are still you with anti-depressants. It doesnt change your body, nor does it change your mind. It merely changes chemical balances in your body. I mean if it does change YOU then tylenol would change a person because it increases the levels of acetophetamine in your body...so your not your "natural" self

Well, I've said everything I can say on this issue. Psycology does have its place for serious mental illnesses, but this isn't one of them.

So if you're not taking your medication anymore, wouldn't that mean that you don't actually need it? Thus proving the entire point that I was trying to make? The pills are a treatment, not a cure...

And you can't seriously be saying that "temporary insanity" is a legitimate excuse for murder...

No Im not saying it that its a legite excuse, but if people should be able to control their emotions then how come people can use that as an excuse?

And I never said they were a cure for anything. I didnt realize you were arguing that it was a cure. I thought you were simply saying that people who take medications are just people who have too much self pity to face it on their own. lol

I think there isnt a pill to cure anything in this world. I think alot of it has to do with will...but at the same time the pills are there to help you reach that cure, but not totally cure it

Too often people are placed on antidepressants, mainly teens, because of their behavior. They are easier to control rather then allowing them to suffer the pains of the ups and downs of life. If someone is truly suicidal/homicidal there is a place for meds or if they suffer from mental illness such a bi-polars, manics, etc.

Much like ADD---stick kids on meds to control them? No thanks.

Over prescribed in today's time as far as I see in medical practice.

I'd agree they're over prescribed but clinical depression is a real MEDICAL condition that can't be gotten rid of by "picking yourself up by your boot straps" or whatever . . . . anymore than you're gonna throw a serious infection without antibiotics . . . . you MIGHT, or you might die. There are tons of studies that show diagnosed clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalence. That said, I'm not sure many general practioners should be prescribing them unless in conjunction with a mental health professional. They refer you to a specialist for just about everything else, I don't know why they feel this situation is different.

[quote=DVDBear;208807]I'd agree they're over prescribed but clinical depression is a real MEDICAL condition that can't be gotten rid of by "picking yourself up by your boot straps" or whatever . . . . anymore than you're gonna throw a serious infection without antibiotics . . . . you MIGHT, or you might die. There are tons of studies that show diagnosed clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalence. That said, I'm not sure many general practioners should be prescribing them unless in conjunction with a mental health professional. They refer you to a specialist for just about everything else, I don't know why they feel this situation is different.[/quote]GP's and Psychs are notorious for this action!!!!! Over-prescribing for non-existent aliments.

Well, psychology may have its problems, but scientology sure isn't the answer.

The controversy goes so far back--years ago it was focused similarly on the Mason's & H. Krishna's, etc.

I really believe when any person allows an institution to make choices or over rule their lives it's bad news since it demonstrates the lack of ability to make individual choices. Government, justice divisions and religious merely set a scope of instilled values. Individual action is what is significant.

Psych or Medicine (as a practice) is just that. We are human and do error. Some are better then others. Again balancing what is good for you is personal choice; therefore, personal liberty are a choice.

I don't condemn anyone including the Sci's for beliefs; it's a persons individual choice to make the decision of what is most correct for them. Some find solace in such institutions.

I've had experience with Scientologists, have actually taken classes and had "auditing" from them. I don't have a problem with their beliefs, just as I don't have a problem with anyone's religious faith, even if it happens to think my orientation is "a sin". But when they use that as a rationalization to harass others and attempt to force their position on the world I take serious umbrage. Scientology is a militant organization, and believe the ends justify the means. They have engaged in many illegal activities and have set out to ruin many people who have spoken against them. Of course, so have other religions, so they're not unique. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=sera300;208809]GP's and Psychs are notorious for this action!!!!! Over-prescribing for non-existent aliments.[/QUOTE]Sera, are you saying clinical depression is not a medical condition, or that it's just over diagnosed?

[quote=DVDBear;208841]Sera, are you saying clinical depression is not a medical condition, or that it's just over diagnosed?[/quote]It's a condition which is real. However, I am seeing too many teens and early 20's diagnosed and given meds to control such "normal" mood swings which many of us have gone through. It's learning to control your emotions/hormones rather then just acting out. It's over diagnosed in early years--but when you see those 20-30 with it it's a tough situation for the individual. It's being used as a catch all term currently...

Clinical depression is treatable but even with the best meds too many suffer lingering side effects or are not themselves...or it's among those who have a temporary break from reality secondary to major life changes.

[QUOTE=sera300;208845]It's a condition which is real. However, I am seeing too many teens and early 20's diagnosed and given meds to control such "normal" mood swings which many of us have gone through. It's learning to control your emotions/hormones rather then just acting out. It's over diagnosed in early years--but when you see those 20-30 with it it's a tough situation for the individual. It's being used as a catch all term currently...

Clinical depression is treatable but even with the best meds too many suffer lingering side effects or are not themselves...or it's among those who have a temporary break from reality secondary to major life changes.[/QUOTE]As someone who's battled with some degree of depression most of my life I agree there is a distinct difference between teenage hormone "ups and downs" and true long term clinical depression. I also agree most of these meds have some side effects; they vary from a nuisance to intolerable. But I'll also say they've helped me a great deal at times. They're NOT "happy pills" . . . . I've never experienced any sort of euphoric reaction to any of them (and I've tried quite a few) . . . . they do help you get "un-stuck", especially in conjunction with therapy.

Again, I'm not saying antidepressants haven't been overused or incorrectly applied. But I do get irked when I see people dismiss the disease as some sort of personal weakness, lack of discipline or whatever. There is a big distinction between periods of natural depression (life changes, bereavement) with the clinical type, which is a totally different animal and rarely corrects itself.

In these situations I don't see the anti-depressants as all that different to oral meds or insulin in Type II diabetes . . . . you don't HAVE to take them, you won't die right away or anything, but the situation generally gets worse and leads to other complications. They correct something your body should be doing naturally but for whatever reason isn't.

Sorry DVDBear, but as someone who was diagnosed with something I never even had, I have a hard time believing that any of it is legitimate. Perhaps it is, but if they can't even figure out who has it and who doesn't, it's difficult to take it with more than a grain of salt. As far as I know, there isn't any medical test to determine whether or not someone has a "chemical imbalance" - at least there wasn't when I was diagnosed.

I didn't even fit the profile of someone with depression; I was just "difficult". Wasn't sad, never had any thoughts of suicide, just a normal kid with a bit too much of a wild side. Psychologist talked to me for all of 15 minutes and then threw a prescription for Prozac at me. I had just about every side effect a person could have and then some - it screwed me up royally. Stopped taking it and I was fine. Turned out this "medical professional" prescribed some form of medication to nearly EVERY patient he ever had.

In the end, the guy learned his lesson: NEVER misdiagnose the son of a lawyer! He will never practice medicine in this state again...

The issue I have is with those who are suffering from life's ups and downs and do not get themselves together...depression is just that. When it is overwhelming it must be corrected. But I see to many people just stuck on meds and therapy as the easier way out since many parents do not wish to deal with their kids...much like ADD; just put them on Rit v. teaching them.

There are VERY significant differences in life between those with a disease & those who just fail to learn to cope with life overall. As you stated they are not happy pills...often, too damned, often people miss this issue!

Much like the teen who had a bf/gf break up with them and took an OD of aspirin. What's the issue? Failure to adapt. Not sticking them on anti-depressants. Teach them how to adjust and therapy if needed. Locking yourself in a room and not coming out, not socializing, not bathing or eating for a period of time? That is a flag for Clinical Depression early on.

Post my ex leaving I am not certain if I moved off the couch for a week...but figured I'd better get it in gear and adjust. Others cannot; require therapy and meds for periods of time.

There are marked differences between the two---failure to adapt and "clinical depression". If someone is suffering from depression meds are a must; however, I see it's become a catch all phrase today. And it does an injustice to those who are suffering long-term.

I agree with you 100% on this one, sera.

Seems everyone wants to take the easy way out these days. Why exercise everyday and change your diet when you can just get a gastric bypass and be done with it?

[quote=oedipussy;208866]I agree with you 100% on this one, sera.

Seems everyone wants to take the easy way out these days. Why exercise everyday and change your diet when you can just get a gastric bypass and be done with it?[/quote]There are some who suffer...trust me seen it. Then there are those who fall in the "Diagnosed category". How it impact your life is the answer...some require meds and others do not. It's not merely a "sort of" issue.

[QUOTE=oedipussy;208864]Sorry DVDBear, but as someone who was diagnosed with something I never even had, I have a hard time believing that any of it is legitimate. Perhaps it is, but if they can't even figure out who has it and who doesn't, it's difficult to take it with more than a grain of salt. As far as I know, there isn't any medical test to determine whether or not someone has a "chemical imbalance" - at least there wasn't when I was diagnosed.

I didn't even fit the profile of someone with depression; I was just "difficult". Wasn't sad, never had any thoughts of suicide, just a normal kid with a bit too much of a wild side. Psychologist talked to me for all of 15 minutes and then threw a prescription for Prozac at me. I had just about every side effect a person could have and then some - it screwed me up royally. Stopped taking it and I was fine. Turned out this "medical professional" prescribed some form of medication to nearly EVERY patient he ever had.

In the end, the guy learned his lesson: NEVER misdiagnose the son of a lawyer! He will never practice medicine in this state again...[/QUOTE]So then you had a bad diagnosis. That doesn't just happen with depression, it happens with a lot of conditions, OED. That also doesn't mean everyone doesn't have it or the condition doesn't exist just because you had a bad experience with a Dr. By your own admission you didn't fit the description of a classically depressed individual, so why are you dismissing everyone else who might? If a mental health professional is worth their salt they will intensively review your case, have you checked for a variety of possibilities before making a conclusion of clinical depression. Yes, it's true they don't take a brain sample or something to determine "chemical imbalance" but you're writing off A HELL of a lot of research, credible research done worldwide by many different highly qualified individuals and centers all because you were the victim of a misdiagnoses.

Again, I repeat . . . . I'm not advocating drugging obnoxious kids to control them or adults dealing with some short term crisis. But it's kinda ridiculous to imply EVERYBODY who has found these meds helped them get functioning again after suffering for years is some sort of slacker who can't get it together on their own. That's a bit offensive, dude.

Completely misinterpreted what I was saying...

Really? Then I apologize. From your opening line -

[COLOR="RoyalBlue">"Sorry DVDBear, but as someone who was diagnosed with something I never even had, I have a hard time believing that any of it is legitimate. Perhaps it is, but if they can't even figure out who has it and who doesn't, it's difficult to take it with more than a grain of salt."[/COLOR]

I presumed from that you were disqualifying the notion that any of it was legitimate, based on your bad experience.

[COLOR="RoyalBlue">"Seems everyone wants to take the easy way out these days. Why exercise everyday and change your diet when you can just get a gastric bypass and be done with it?"[/COLOR]

That seemed to suggest you were correlating the exercise example to taking an antidepressant as an "easy fix", because people were too lazy to put in the effort to change themselves.

Those are what I was responding to. If that is incorrect and not what you were trying to say, again, my apologies.

[QUOTE]Seems everyone wants to take the easy way out these days[/QUOTE]

What about people who go to jenny craig? People are "told' what to eat...basically its handed to you on a plate...all you need to do is eat it. Are they lazy too? People who go to trade school...isnt that an easy fix? I mean you are told exactly what to learn for your career. Wouldnt that be an easy way out? Hell anyone who isnt a farmer and makes fertilizer from their cows feces and grows their own cotton for clothing is taking the easy way out...

An anti-depressant isn't an easy way out. Neither is a gastric bypass...the pills help you get rid the morbid feelings so that you can work to making yourself feel better. "Like I said it HELPS you get to square zero...making it to first is up to you" Gastric bypass helps people lose weight faster, but it doesnt automatically make you healthier...I know people who are skinny and have major cholestorol problems...My neighbor elijah is 250 pounds and has gread blood pressure and cholestorol...even compared to someone weighing 160.

Oh and DVD, did the anti depressants...(same kind I took if I remember right) make you wake up in the morning happy as a clam? Did you go to work saying HEY THIS IS A GREAT JOB...yet in reality it was lame...I know it didnt for me...I woke up thinking ehh...work is lame...but Ima do it...I know I can....(rather than work sucks I cant do it..)

Knowing how both of you post...I think Oedi was correct with over-diagnosed; rather putting people into a "catch all phrase".

Look at the people who post and the numbers of individuals on such meds. Many never seek "why" rather just take them for life as this is the answer--it's absolute rather then seeking why they are one them and if there is ever a chance of being taken off them. Often women become sexually active and find they are not responding sexually. The same is found within the community. There are those who patients who are "just put on"" these meds and are never offered a chance to try to get off them.

Then, there are those who have serious psychological issues and require meds for treatment of horrific Psych conditions and/or short-term hospitalization with monitoring. I know some time back I wished to quit smoking b/c (this habit was linked to having a psych disorder) the Med was Wellbutrin SR used for treatment and packaged under another name for smoking cessation. I even tried to change to another (Zoloft) since I felt awful taking them. What they did to me was make me to the point I felt nothing. I honestly swear I was better off drugging myself with Ativan for the withdrawal over a few days to curb my reactions--more a detox behavior (the nicotine cessation).

Then you see kids stuck on the meds b/c they are not "appropriate" & "controlling" their mood swings seocndary to hormones and teen behavior. Meanwhile later in my life I begin Menopause & in my own thoughts feel I am damned insane. Really at this time I was ready to seek (prior to the diagnosis of POV) to see a psych & check myself in under a voluntary admission due to the degrees of not caring and lethargy. Much like those who have mood swings secondary to developing hormones which are raging and a normal teen.

I hate it; l turn around and see all these "teens" & "adolescence" put on meds for their actions. Why? Parents are not home (or if they) are do not want to or cannot deal with them. Hence they go to school and get into trouble. The simple answer when the school psychologist intervenes and has a parental meeting & has the parents convinced their child requires therapy & meds. Now the burden is shifted off of the schools, kids are zombies, BUT they are not an issue in school. Same is seen for ADD & ADHD---stick them on Ritalin and they are no longer our issue since we did all possible so they can be in school & "mainstreamed".

Often people who have illness which are organic do not really know initially. They do not understand they are doing anything improper...such as not bathing, cleaning, fail to function, women are suffering postpartum depression, etc. This is the irony; often it is diagnosed later in life. The meds and counseling are required; many try to go of the meds due to secondary effects. Tough when it take weeks to build them up in the body.

I often do feel obesity is over looked as well. Yes, lets take Alli or another pill to loose weight rather then join weight watchers, exercise, and watch what we DO put into our mouth. If this is unsuccessful and followed--then look at the alternatives. Some people do not loose weight despite all efforts--those are the ones who should be allowed to follow alternative interventions. I cannot say I have gained weight without a true reason...holidays and ate poorly, etc. Follow some hard work? It's easier but I have to then keep my weight up.

All in all, a good clinician will diagnose those well and prescribe appropriately. But I will admit; too many practitioners hand out pills at the patients request. Why? If they do not then they are not being a good practitioner and the patient will find one who will--the clinician will loose their patients and finances decline. Much like overprescribing antibiotics; then we wonder why there are drug resistant strains of bacteria. People get a viral illness or a cold and want antibiotics! Look at OTC (over the counter meds) such as cough syrups for a cold! Do you know what you are buying or requiring? When you purchase sudafed do you really need added Tylenol??? Or just the decongestant alone? Many have no idea they think the more the better. I find the same with meds for psych. conditions or issues. Patients do not question if they are needed and what alternatives do you have. Too often they are afraid to challenge a doc or the medical profession; so they just take a pill because one doc said so.

Now seeing those with Clinical depression and those who can be Bi-Polar, Manic, etc? There is some imbalance or deep rooted issues. They require counseling and long-term therapy. If viable, they should be offered a chance to go off the meds while under strict MD (Psych only) supervision...if this fails they should be offered to lower doses or to change to a lower class of meds. If they cannot, they are put back on them.

Personal opinion only here from observations of life....:)

I don't disagree with much of what you said, Sera, and frankly I don't disagree with much of what OED said as well. I think I made that apparent, or certainly did my best to. My problems were (perhaps my misinterpreting his intention) the generalization that it was all bunk because of the bungled handling of his own situation, and at least the implication that someone was taking an easy way out by using anti-depressants. This is different from the position of these meds being over prescribed, handled incorrectly or applied to inappropriate situations. That is a sad reality.

Everyone is different, obviously. OED had a bad reaction to Prozac (and I'm sure it was a bad call to prescribe it to him in the first place). I've used Prozac . . . . eh. The worst I can say for it is that (like all the SSRI class in my case) it inhibits my ability to orgasm, and for that reason I asked to be taken off of it. But just because I didn't have the same reaction as OED I don't doubt the validity of his experience. I currently use wellbutrin, and again I've never had a bad reaction to it (although I think there's a possibility it's sensitized me to caffeine in a way I never had problems with before - minor side effect, I switched to decaf). I also don't doubt it was horrendous for you, Sera. But that's an issue with a majority of drugs, and no one type is right for everyone. What it does for me is I don't find myself practically paralyzed with anxiety attacks and GAD like before. I'm able to "get on with it", but I'm hardly pulling a Julie Andrews and singing "Sound of Music" from the hilltops! Jobs still suck, I still have really lousy days, I still get in bad moods and all the other crap everyone else does. And yes, I still get DEPRESSED when that is a natural reaction to a situation but I don't stay that way endlessly. If anything I feel MORE on these meds than off. We lost one of our cats last week . . . . I cried and mourned that animal non-stop for three days straight, and I still have problems with it. Without the meds I would most likely have been cold internal misery. Now I feel it, go through it, move on . . . . a pretty normal cycle I'd say. Could I "get by" without wellbutrin? Yeah, I imagine, and in fact I'm thinking of talking to my dr about going off of it. If the past has been any indication I usually do all right for about six months before the wheels come off. But maybe this time would be different and there won't be a relapse.

In my and many people's situation the meds are not a crutch, they're a tool. I choose to use them because my quality of life is (in general) normal when I do. It isn't when I don't, or at least hasn't been. I don't think it makes me weak or lessor than others . . . . I quit a two and half pack a day cigarette habit cold after twenty years of smoking; I've handled high pressure jobs that have crushed others; I've dealt with personal crisis situations that have been torturous but I held it together and got through it. I don't give the credit for that strength to the antidepressants anymore than I would my car or my phone. It's a tool I use and that's all. To "tough it out" without it would make about as much sense as toughing out chronic migraines or stomach ulcers or any other affliction you could minimize with the correct med.

I know many people who feel the same way, have read tons of testaments to this effect. So I simply ask people don't denounce that result as being less valid than the negative situations that have come about because of these class of drugs.

And that's my personal opinion from my own life experiences. ;)

[QUOTE=Ducy;208884]

Oh and DVD, did the anti depressants...(same kind I took if I remember right) make you wake up in the morning happy as a clam? Did you go to work saying HEY THIS IS A GREAT JOB...yet in reality it was lame...I know it didnt for me...I woke up thinking ehh...work is lame...but Ima do it...I know I can....(rather than work sucks I cant do it..)[/QUOTE]No, I never have had an "uplifting" feeling from any of these drugs . . . about the only (possible) effect was a speedy sensation when I first tried Zoloft. It lasted about a week.

As I said in the previous post everyone is different, but I can't understand what anyone would see in using a antidepressant if you weren't really depressed . . . there's no kick, no cool feelings, nuthin. It's about exciting as breathing oxygen . . . . which, of course, can be exciting if you've been gasping for air. ;) Again, if your usual state is to be very nauseated and a medication took the nausea away, does that then qualify as a "high" or are you just normal?

Frankly, the class of drugs that I see as the bigger problem by far are benzodiazepines, especially Xanax. The potential for abuse is huge, and they can land you with a nasty monkey on your back you'll be dealing with for up to two years. I warn anybody using it to be very, very careful with that stuff. I'm scared to death of it.

Sera said pretty much everything that I was trying to say better than I ever could.

The problem I have here is that diagnosing it is a total guessing game, or worse - I can attest to that. That's why I'm skeptical of any diagnosis of depression being legitimate. I'm not saying that none are, but I think the fact that there are so many people out there taking drugs they don't need that aren't exactly completely harmless is a good reason to seriously question it. I think a lot of people are just prescribed medication without bothering to even explore other options. I really do believe that MOST people are in control of their own feelings and can make things better for themselves through will alone.

If people require medication, fine - but only after all other avenues have been tried unsuccessfully. Drugs should be the last resort. And teenagers (or younger)? No - never. There are so many hormones and normal teenage angst messing with them that any accurate diagnosis is impossible.

Yes, I feel strongly about this. Why? Because I didn't deserve to have my head all messed up for months and have to take a trip to the looney bin when I was 16 just so some quack could validate cashing his check every month. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one. There's way too much corruption in this profession...

The message here that I wanted to get across? Don't ever believe something is mentally wrong with you just because one person says so, and that you have no power over it. And if you're going to take medication, you better be DAMN SURE you need it.

So I don't get accused of misinterpreting you again, are you basically saying that you agree these drugs have a legitimate use and can help people or not? Because you made the same statement as before - "That's why I'm skeptical of any diagnosis of depression being legitimate." You qualify it in the next sentence that you don't totally rule it out, but then conclude you honestly believe that people can overcome it through will alone. Then later you said they should be used as a last resort (even though you evidently feel people shouldn't have to). So what's the bottom line? You agree with what Sera wrote but she never said a medical condition doesn't exist. She feels the meds have been over prescribed and inappropriately used in many situations. And if that's your position there isn't much difference between any of us. . . . I've agreed with that in every post.

The red flag for me is each time you seem to suggest the disease is something we should be able to control through will and the drugs should be unnecessary, and they're a lazy way of fixing the problem. I'm sure you could appreciate why I'd find that insulting. But before I respond . . . again . . . . to that notion I want to make sure that's an accurate read. Fair enough?

I guess I need to read things a little more carefully before posting. I totally missed all those little inconsistencies... The over-prescribing issue bled into the stuff about people that actually suffer from a condition. I didn't mean that anyone should be able to "control" a disease.

By skeptical: I meant questioning each individual diagnosis on a case-by-case basis, not the whole damn shebang. There are obviously problems with the diagnostic process. Mistakes are made. Depression can be mistaken for a lot of different things which aren't actual diseases. Which was the only point I was ever really attempting to make - giving people medication that they don't need.

Yes, I do believe the drugs have a legitimate use for some people. But like I said, other means should be tried first - you can't just throw drugs at everyone that walks through the door. Lazy way of fixing the problem? I only said that about those that get prescriptions to the medication because their girlfriend broke up with them or they just can't deal with the ups and downs of life. Yes, it happens...

Not interested in arguing with anyone here - just stating what I think on the matter. Perhaps poorly. Sorry if it's confusing... I was never trying to debate anything you said, DVDBear.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this thread. Tad too complex and touchy for me...

DVD:

As you will find there are people in all ends of the spectrum with a chronic illness. Some wish to find answers; meanwhile, others choose not to they become complacent. I have also had patients much worse off including those who are in long term institutions--another story in its self; some really off the wall characters.

Meds are fine when required. However, too often people seek to just take them b/c they are mildly depressed or feeling down for a specific period of time. That is what scares me & those parents willing to manage a difficult child through pharmacology rather then looking at underlying family dynamics.

You have done much homework into the illness; regardless you are informed. When I took the Wellbutrin SR? I felt like I had the jitters, sweats, and bugs crawling over me. It was the SR---took a while to get out of my body so I spent the day a bit psycho. my them husband knew I took it for the smoking thing--so he had to watch me for the day!

I also feel people who are capable need to make a choice in their life what they want. You obviously tried to go off; where many do not or choose not to face their demons...I am not implying you are one. I see so many kids stuck on them, ends up with a 20, 30, 40 y/o still on meds due to being complacent until hopefully they hit a practitioner willing to try to take them off. Benzo's are fine if people can use them carefully; many cannot & hence the reason they are so high on the "schedule" of meds. Taking one three times a day is not an answer. One in a while, when appropriate, fine. However, the person has to be willing to understand they are meds & any med put into your body has an action & potential for reaction. Advil gives me an upset stomach...go figure; Tylenol you can throw in a garbage pale for me---drug of choice prescription Ibuprofen about 600 mg (for some reason no upset stomach). Other then that? Hormone replacement therapy. All meds have odd, "reverse" affects on me.

However, I know what Oedi is talking about...and I know what you are talking about. If it makes you feel any better; I have had patients who are really bad off...

Also, Happy Valentine's Day to all....:)

Okay guys . . . . ;)

I think we've walked this dog around the block enough. And if I've appeared overly sensitive I'm sorry for that, but just as OED feels strongly so do I. The reason being that depression is one of the most poorly understood diseases out there, and many people ARE judgmental about it, shaming folks who suffer and taking the attitude of "you're being a big baby, suck it up and get on with it". As anyone who's struggled with it for long stretches will tell you it just doesn't work that way. It's not the same as just "feeling down" or whatever . . . . it's a struggle to cope with the most menial easy routines of a day. And if you're lucky (kidding) it'll branch into cool stuff like GAD and panic attacks. Anyone who's been through a real panic attack won't be laughing that off . . . . you'll be at an emergency room, convinced God has dropped the nickel on you.

So I've struggled to make those distinctions here. Even short term natural depression isn't a nice feeling, and I understand why people think Prozac or something will take the pain away. Doctors do have an obligation to educate their patients what these drugs do and dissuade them for looking to them for a solution to confronting painful short term situations.

I'll leave it there, and with a link to this . . . .

http://www.cbs.com/cbs_cares/depression/

I don't think anyone would consider Mike Wallace as someone who can't face challenges in life or tough situations. :)

And yeah, happy V day! :D

[QUOTE=sera300;208904]DVD:

Tylenol you can throw in a garbage pale for me---drug of choice prescription Ibuprofen about 600 mg (for some reason no upset stomach). Other then that? Hormone replacement therapy. All meds have odd, "reverse" affects on me.
[/QUOTE]Oh, I did want to say I know what you mean. I can't STAND Vicodin or Oxycodone and am constantly amazed how people abuse these. They make me nauseous and give me headaches . . . . . not exactly my idea of a good time.

I've used (and continue on occasion) Xanax, because it's one of the most effective for combating anxiety. But it has an odd "blowback" effect with me, where the next day I'll get an intense burst of anxiety for about 10 or 15 minutes. The natural reaction would be to take another one, but I just grit my teeth and go through it because I don't want to set up a cycle. The fact that if you end up using it continuously long term you can have episodes like that (or worse!) for up to two years after stopping is very, very spooky.

I'd never make a good drug addict. I'm too afraid of most drugs to abuse them! :D

Oed: Your right, people who need it for a girlfriend who broke up or their pet goldfish die are just plain crazy. And your right it is kinda pointless to argue cuz their is no straight answer.

DVD: Yea I dont get the addiction to vicodin and codone either...I mean the times I was given them all I did was sleep lol. Sure sleeping is great...but at times it can be just plain boring. And xanax...pffft. That stuff just seems to make me think more. I mean its supposed to take the edge off so you can get through it...all that seems to happen to me is make me do about a weeks worth of homework in about 3 or 4 hours. My records was a report and pre calculus assignment at the same time.

Well, if Xanax made me think more I might possibly abuse it! lol That's a drug I could really use! :D

Unfortunately, it just relieves GAD (which of course is a good thing) but because it makes me more relaxed I tend to want to go into nap mode, which can be a little inconvienient in the middle of a work day. Most of the time I break one in half our even quarters so it just takes the edge off without zoning me out. Sometimes that's enough.

Think more! Makes me sleep! Give me a benadryl and you can watch me bounce off the floor & walls. Drugs for post-surgery? I was hallucinating; a story in itself! Worse part I worked in the hospital; knew how to disconnect myself and go to the ER (yes with just a patient gown on) and chat...and have some coffee. Even had some smokes in my locker and went out the door to smoke!

Seriously, real depression requires treatment & staying current with what's available out there to help you. Being an informed patient is critical. Being a good practitioner is essential. Finding one; have to look hard but there are a few out there!

Now spinning on to a religion? No thanks!

Happy VD day! LOL!

Haha my girlfriend can take a childs benedryl and she will pass out...If she takes a tylenol it doesnt even phase her. She took like two prescription 800mg ibuprofen and continued to be in pain didnt help her at all lol. I would say its kinda backwards.

Oh yea...it is valentines day. lol wow how could I forget