Just a little information before I explain what we did. I am married and have been for almost 20 years to the same woman. My wife and I got married shortly after high school and we have been very happy ever since. We have a great sex life (4-5 times a week even after 20 years of marriage) and 3 wonderful children to show for it.
As for the test, we watch alot of late night shows such as Forensic files, Snapped.....On one particular episode a lady was rapped by a man that had no weapon and was nearly the same size as the woman. She didn't struggle and was rapped repeatedly over the courseof a few days. My wife said that she would have beat the hell out of him given the fact that he wasn't armed.... I said sure you would and made a joke out of it but then she put me to the test. She bet me that I couldn't given the same scenario the women on TV went through. I know there is more to rape than the act itself; ie power, control, domination, fear....but simply from the mechanics of the event and with some resistence from the women, how hard would it be?
We just wanted to see if I could dominate the situation and place myself in a position to do this...As we tried this, let me remind everyone that we were clothed in our underware (at no point was I going to rape my wife!!!!!!!), this was a mutual test with specific rules in place. She is 5'8" 150# and I'm 6'1" 210-220#. The rules were that all I could use was physical strength and she could do anything except scratch my face or kick me in the balls! Needless to say, I got my ass handed to me! It is extremely difficult to pry someone's legs apart while at the same time trying to pin their arms and legs, especially when they are fighting back. I'm not a push over, I wrestled in HS, played football and baseball in H.S. and I still try to remain physically fit but I got my ass kicked! I got kicked off the bed, a shiner under my eye and I got nowhere close to placing myself in a position that I would have been able to penetrate. This lasted for about 20-30 minutes and I was physically exhausted at the end, and physically bruised as well. I know that things could have been a little different had I used physical force, a weapon....but I'll give her credit in that no man without a weapon or severe physical prowess would be able to handle that situation. I'm glad that my wife can take care of herself but I was wondering why more women don't fight back in such situations. I read some posts regarding rape on this forum and didn't understand why someone wouldn't attempt to fight her attacker. I know there are alot of women out there that obviously would but it seems that many of the rapes on TV, the news and on this forum involved little or no struggle, even when the attacker had no weapon. Is it shock associated with the situation? I know fear plays a large factor but I would assume fear would often allow you the strength to fight back. Once again, I know there are alot of factors involved with such a situation and I have been involved with alot of treatment S/P rapes when I worked in the emergency department. Most of this obviously centered on the physical trauma and specimen collections as the psychologist/psychiatrists handled the emotional damages involved with the attacks.
A question for the ladies: If you were being attacked by a man without a weapon who was intent on rape, would you fight back? Hopefully you all would but is there anyone out there that wouldn't and why not?
My wife and I talk about all these shows and how odd the situations are and why more people don't fight back when their lives or physical being is at risk. This not only includes rape but any situation where someone is trying to physically hurt you. Once again, I didn't try to actually rape my wife. We do stupid stuff like this from time to time, ie wrestling matches, last one standing on the bed....my kids jump from the headboards....yes we are one of those families! At least out of the 5 of us I'm the only one to suffer an injury in the bedroom doing stuff like this...Suffered a concussion when my 6 y/o jumped off the bed (3' above ground) while I was watching TV on the floor and landed knees first on my head. The other occured while in medical school when my wife kicked me off the bed and then landed on me..suffered an ulnar fracture in that one. Please don't take any of this wrong with regard to rape, we know what rape is all about from a psychological and medical perspective and I believe it is one of the most awful crimes one could inflict on another individual. We were just curious if a woman could actually fight off a rape if she wanted, given the circumstances of course.
Please tell me we are not the only one's out there that do stupid stuff like this!
First gut instinct:
The thing is, you DIDN'T try to. And she knew it. And she knew ahead of time. She saw it coming, and she trusted you. No element of surprise, no fear, no 'what the hell is happening and what do I do about it?!?' Some people react to those kinds of things with paralysis or dumbfoundedness. I've (thank God) never been attacked like that, but I would think the things I mentioned could go a long way toward paralyzing a person.
^He's right. In most cases where a woman doesn't fight back, it has more to do with intense fear then it does with the man being physically superior.
The element of being grabbed can immobilize women or men during a rape. Secondly, of all the rapes & rape kits done over the years there is some appearance of trauma to the victim, as a medical practitioner, even the most minuscule is found on palpation; often found is signs of redness or bruising from being pinned down and trying to get away. There is generally clothing torn from being grabbed and knocked to the ground...often there is bruising at the genitalia. Why? The victim was attempting to get away and the attacker used more force.
Using an example of a planned "try to fend me off" with limits as done is not a true evaluation. Why? If the victim has the opportunity to get away from the man the first chance is hitting the male genitals or attacking the eyes. No woman is stronger than a man, especially one who works out/boxes. I have long taken defensive tactics combined with some Martial arts, I weight lift, etc. I stand at 5'9" and muscle proportionately. In classes and trying it at home on male family or male friends no barring either; they [ men] have me beat any day of the week. Men are stronger even those of slight build. These men were not even trained. And the Adrenaline of the attacker? Another factor.
I strongly wonder about how many rape victims you have encountered; there are signs of struggle...even at times found in the nail scraping taken from the victim, bruising, redness, swelling, and scratches. I'll skip some of the details of some of the usual signs found of an attack from the victim fighting back; the violence escalates and the result is more then mentioned above.
Being a MD from an ER; look at the documentation & interaction with the Police when you have a rape victim. You have to clinically correlate the patients information with supporting and observed trauma, and document all of this. As the person handling the rape MD, DO, NP, PA, SANE; you hear the whole story and put the picture together as to what happened and document the findings--right on down to clothing being cut off on seams and individually placed in a brown bag [labeled]. As a MD you have been called for testimony regarding a patients "rape allegations" & the exam you performed since this is routine in the criminal justice system.
I am a bit shocked at your point; asking why don't victim's fight back, if you have been in an ER. You know the dynamics of trauma, force, and shock. And also you say women not fighting back--what about men? They also are rape victims. I have never encountered a patient who just withstood the rape, each has attempted to fight back and to scream--even the one I had which had severe M.R & from a "group home". This is where the fight or flight kicks in, victims do not just let this happen.
You married at 18? I thought I was young.
Would I fight off a rape? Yes, with my revolver if I feared for my life or intrusion of home or self. Most effective method I've found to date assuming one is a great marksman.
Another flaw in this experiment is that you weren't willing to punch, choke, or otherwise truly harm your wife. A rapist is willing to use force beyond just holding someone down.
Non-scientific. Certainly is. This post feeds so many erroneous stereotypes that it is both offensive and dangerous. Many women feel guilty for having been raped and this emphasizes that it can be stopped. It feeds the stereotype that women have rape fantasies that they wish to have fulfilled. Just the description will trigger the post-traumatic stress in some victims.
I have no problem with what any man and woman choose to do in the privacy of their own space. That is their business and theirs alone.
3 messages:
RAM - read the (now old) by Susan Brownmiller - Men, Women and Rape. I read it so long ago I do not recall whether I read it in the original English or in translation but I am sure the same learning is there in any language.
Women - Do not allow this apparent game to feed the guilt you may already have about any sex abuse you have suffered. More than one in five of us has been abused (Not I, through luck) and we did not cause the abuse; we suffered the consequences - and are suffering, forever.
Men - even suggesting such a game to a woman who has been raped is likely to trigger some deep feelings that you may not be equipped to deal with.
Evilkitten has suggested some interesting games. Stick with those but be very careful when re-enactment of violence is done.