On the surface or at first glance this may seem like a tough question; however, often the simple logic is the best answer--that being: you maintain the trust between you and your spouse.

On the other hand, if the confidence was about something life threatening or illegal then I would talk with your spouse in hopes s/he would take appropriate action.

I don't think it's that simple logic. Because the primary feeling and "simple logic" to me would be;
(s)he is my friend and I will not let my friend be played like a fool.

Then comes "the other hand" since the spouse is trusting me not to tell on his/her friend. Yet; is trust more important than fair treatment? And there's the fact that I can't be responsible for any of them. But personally; I won't sleep with that as my thought of comfort. Since I also firmly believe in: do to others, as you would want them to do for you. That would be the wisdom I'll use.

What I'd do is ask my spouse to try and convince his/her friend that (s)he should come clean to his/her partner. That way I'm giving my spouse a fair shot at it. If my spouse won't or fails, I will go to this friend. To allow him/her a fair shot at telling. I'll probably put a deadline on it. If nothing happens, my friend will be informed by me.

Cause let's turn it around; I would immediately terminate my friendship, if my friend knows I'm being cheated on, yet has done nothing to get me informed about it. No excuses, but's or maybe's. Maybe I'll risk losing my spouse with such strategy as described... Well, he's probably not much worthy my spouse anyways, if he keeps such secrets from my friends. There's nothing good about "trust" if it's only used as a game to keep secrets and allow others to be treated unfair.

You could question how unfair is worth risking. What the doc says about "life-threatening" is true. Yet it is what your ethics make of it. Some will say that cheating is not life-threatening. But what about the wife that got HIV, because her husband cheated using no protection and she therefor unknowingly slept with an infected man?

Your spouse made you complicit in the cheating by telling you and that's not really a fair situation to be put in with regards to your friend. I would probably tell my friend, but give the person cheating the opportunity to confess first.

Thanx, Spring! I'm too elaborate on words, but probably could have done with those 2 sentences as well ;)

We are in complete agreement, RR, just stated differently.

Big, if speaking about yourselves, I believe it is up to your wife to do as RR and I have suggested, not you, at least in the beginning.

I would have a hard time looking either friend in the face with this knowledge on my conscience.

Okay we can speculate all we want BUT what we DO NOT KNOW at all is what is going on inside that other marriage. They could be in the Lifestyle, he/she may have permission - for all you know .

And it is that point upon which everything hangs.

You keep your mouth shut.

Are you SURE the other party has no clue? I once saw a TV sit com where there was adultery going on in one couple, and the friend couple found out about it and brought it out into the open. Both were cheating on each other, in fact. Hubby had no idea Wifey was cheating.

But here's the kicker: Wifey was fully aware of Hubby's play time. And didn't mind. And in fact was using it as permission to have her own play time. Wifey liked the situation exactly as it was, and the marriage worked well for them, but because Friend Couple brought it out into the open, the marriage had to end. So Hubby left devastated crying out "I didn't know, I didn't know!!!" and Wifey left devastated crying out "I knew, I knew!!!"

Yes it's a FUBARed situation, and that's why a sitcom dreamed it up. But unless you really are close enough to them that you absolutely KNOW exactly what's going on between those two, I wouldn't interfere.

In your original statement, big, you did NOT say anything about prostitutes. Why didn't you?

Nevertheless - you do not know what's going on inside that marriage so my advice remains unchanged.

Well, I would weight if crossing my spouse is wroth it. That depends on how good of a friend my friend is. But I would definitely tell my spouse in advance what I will do.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271698]You keep your mouth shut.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271713]Nevertheless - you do not know what's going on inside that marriage so my advice remains unchanged.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. If anyone should have kept their mouths shut to keep things among themselves, it's the one visiting hookers. It was put "outside" the moment the words came out. This should have been told to the one to who it matters within marriage.

I agree we do not know what's going on inside marriage. Perhaps it is shared knowledge. But neither can we assume keeping this secret is in best interest of the partner. Marriage remains two individuals.

Also: since this person is already talking to a friend about such activities, it shouldn't be a surprise to receive response on it as well. Those who play at bowls should look out for rubs.

Short answer - no. People do not know how to nor do they like delivering 'bad news' - why we have the police do it. I can accept "I didn't know how to tell you."

Now then if your spouse told you this IN CONFIDENCE and you went and blabbed - you have betrayed your spouse and made him/her betray his/her friend. Judas. Spouses are more important than friends.

So we have the choice between trying to be kind or being a Judas

so the answer remains the same - keep your mouth shut

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271729]Short answer - no. People do not know how to nor do they like delivering 'bad news' - why we have the police do it. I can accept "I didn't know how to tell you." [/QUOTE]

I'd feel worse about NOT telling them. If I have to have police to do what I should morally do myself, I have no right calling myself a friend.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271729]
Now then if your spouse told you this IN CONFIDENCE and you went and blabbed - you have betrayed your spouse and made him/her betray his/her friend. Judas. Spouses are more important than friends.
[/QUOTE]

By telling me, my spouse forces a choice of 'betraying' them or my friend.
If someone cares about you, they wont make you complicit.

But Spring by talking to your friend "Did you know your spouse is .." YOU made YOUR spouse complicit-- so you trying to have it both ways; be lily-white and a 'good friend' while being a total #%%^@ to your spouse - you remember -SPOUSE- the one you said you loved?

So I guess you LIED because if you can do that to your spouse then you really do not love your spouse.

There really is no way out, Spring, except to mind your own business and keep your mouth shut.

Big-
Let us review a small point. Big runs over and tells his best buddy that buddy's wife is 'cheating' outcome = disbelief and destruction of friendship. Because buddy doesn't believe him, thinks big is insulting his wife and therefore insulting buddy, or buddy at least pretends thus because if buddy admitted to his wife cheating he will be publicly acknowledging that he (buddy) isn't a man - hasn't got 'enough dick ' to keep his wife.

Just think, if your spouse's friend had kept his/her big mouth shut - if your spouse had kept his/her big mouth shut - you would not be in this position.

brother or sister to you - yeah, but SPOUSE - you know SPOUSE - father/mother of your children - the one you put above all others - ALL others

People - we must all bear our guilty burdens with grace because otherwise innocents get hurt. Keep your big mouth shut. Making you feel less guilty is not an excuse for hurting innocents - just remember, the guilt is the price for whatever you did - pay up & shut up.

"EEK wouldn't you feel betrayed by your friend if they didn't tell you your husband was doing something behind your back that deserves a divorce. and like RR mentioned what about the risks of stds being passed to the person being cheated on?"

Since you're making this 'personal'

Point One: in many jurisdictions, adultery is no longer grounds for divorce.

Point Two: condoms work quite well and everyone's routinely tested at least annually.

Point Three: with whom did you imagine he was 'cheating' - my friends - duh!

So, NO, I wouldn't feel 'betrayed'

If "pay up & shut up" is the sacrifice for the "love" of one's spouse, I doubt the feeling is mutual. Because this spouse has definitely tried to make his/her burden less heavy by telling their partner. So; this spouse is expecting his/her partner to do what (s)he was unable to do him/herself. And by definition doesn't really "love" either. That's seems to me like quite a heavy definition to put on love and marriage...

I still wonder about the Judas example... I'm not much knowledgeable of the bible, but as far as I know: being Judas means someone who can't resist temptation of fulfilling one's own interests, therefor denying the truths one knows and betraying a friend with the most terrible results as consequence. By that comparison; fulfilling one's own interests by protecting your marital bond, therefor denying the truth one knows about the cheating, betraying a friend and putting this friend into a possibly life-threatening situation. The way I see it: the friend who's being cheated is the one who's about to be hanged on the cross by at least 2 betrayers.

As for the depicted worst-case-scenario, I think you should always try to work this out first with the spouse, then with the cheater, then with the friend. Thereby giving everyone a fair shot at it. In the best-case scenario, the spouse immediately says "you're right", goes back to friend, friend reckons being dishonest and confesses about cheating to partner. From that moment on; the truth is out there, instead of lies, and everyone can make truthful and clear decisions based on it. I also have another worst-case-scenario: "O hon, I'm sorry you got HIV, but I didn't know what to tell you... Or actually: I knew exactly what to do and could have accomplished it in many ways. But I really had to nurture my spouse's little feelings and think of our marriage. More truthfully; I really had to think about me, me, me and my marriage. You understand that, right?"

The guilt is not only price for what you did. Responsibility does not only come with actions. It is also the price for what you neglected to do. By not saying, one approves. By not preventing, one allows. It makes you guilty as charged.

Yes, a spouse is a very important person in your life, no doubt! And I would advice to keep him/her informed of your actions, should (s)he refuse to confront the cheating-friend. But; your spouse does not and will never equal you. You remain individuals. Your spouse is just another person that could disappear without warning. In the end all that's left is the integrity of your own mind.

Your question was about adultery - changing it halfway through the debate because you weren't uniformly getting the answer you expected isn't permitted.

Spouses and being true to him/her takes priority over telling your friends what they may not want to hear. You are NOT married to your friends, you ARE MARRIED to your spouse. If your spouse is just another person like any old Tom, Dick or Harry who could disappear - just as your friends can - why are you married AT ALL?

So in the end, I'm with my spouse and my friend will just have to deal with whatever comes - if it comes at all - which despite the platitudes is NOT guaranteed esp. if people just keep their mouths shut.

RR - it isn't you who has to pay the price - it the cheating spouse. Judas betrayed the most important person in his life for NOTHING which is exactly what all of you are counseling is the right thing to do. "Oh, I cannot bear this knowledge that I have and must blast her world to hell and back because I", notice that word, "cannot bear the thought of her being played for a fool."

You can't bear it? Okay, so then you tell her, she feels trashed but that's ok, better she feels bad than you do - right?

Yes, your spouse is just another person like any old Tom, Dick or Harry who could disappear, just as your friends can. So far; I haven't seen exceptions. If you do, you must have a better spiritual hotline than Il Papa and the Dalai Lama do ;)

I don't think I wrote that, but since I can't find a more similar phrase either... I wrote:
"(s)he is my friend and I will not let my friend be played like a fool."
If I've somewhere used the words that I wouldn't be able to "bear" it, it is partially meant as my conscious speaking (doing the wrong thing) and mostly meant as compassion.

As an example: I also couldn't bear seeing my friend struggle. It hurt me to see such pain and I've had sleepless nights worrying. That however didn't mean I wasn't there, just to make things easier on myself. Cause you bite your teeth, suck it in and stick with your friends, no matter how hard it gets.

I didn't mean to get too personal on this... But this subject strikes me, because I've seen what it can do to someone to find out that people knew, but no-one has done anything to get the truth to you. When the truth comes out and it becomes apparent that it was out there on the street all this time... it gives the feeling as if it all has been a fun game; being the toy that's played with and laughed at. It makes things even worse. I wasn't one of those people that knew. I was just the one first confided when the truth was learned, the one to listen to the crying, doing the comforting and trying to bring that smile back.

Did shutting up about it, change the reality? No. Did it help anyone to shut up about it? No. Would it have helped if someone had stepped up for the truth? I can't say for sure, only that it was the wish afterwards someone had done so. With best interests at heart, if I had known, I would have.

Let me bring Dr.Janis Abrahms Spring, who has been counseling couples on this topic for more than 20 years and who wrote the seminal book on the subject: After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful

Specifically, let me direct your attention to the Epilogue. "Revealing the Secret: Truth and Consequences"

"If you want to escape from an unhappy marriage, you can use the truth as an exit visa. If you want to hurt your partner for ignoring or mistreating you, you can use your revelation as a weapon of revenge. If your relationship is faltering or simply standing still, you can speak out to shake it from its lethargy." p249-250

further down the page and highlighted by the use of italics:

"there is no correct response. It's not always better to confess or to conceal."

Dr. Spring then goes on to list the disadvantages of telling and then goes on with examples from her practice.

"Remaining silent may be right for you, too. IF you have reason to believe that your revelation will harm the relationship as much as the affair itself; if you fear that the news will permanently scar your partner and lead to a separation; if you want to contain the damage and keep your relationship intact, it may make sense to keep the secret secret." p 252

"My own view is that no two situations are alike and that what is good for one couple may be bad for another." p 257

"However you decide to handle your secret, the idea that one solution is always better than another is, I believe, an illusion. When you do X, Y doesn't always follow; the human heart doesn't run by these kinds of laws." p 259

Now, then into what is already a fraught situation, here you come with your burning need to tell the truth.

"In a 1988 study by Annette Lawson, up to 40% of women and 30% of men said that their confessions did irreparable damage to their marriages." p253

There is always the option of stopping the affair and recommitting to and rebuilding one's marriage while NOT confessing. This is a worth while choice. Perhaps, unbeknownst to you, this was the erring spouse's choice - three months into the process - they're happier than ever - you come along and "tell all".

Bringing me back to my point - you do NOT know everything inside that marriage - you, to ease your conscience and 'be true to yourself and your ethics', might actually do more harm to your friend and to her/his marriage than the erring spouse did while destroying your own marriage.

Yes you have seen exceptions, RR - you've seen me. No my husband is NOT 'just another person'. He is the most important man in the world. In your example: of being laughed at - her PRIDE got hurt. Actually, if someone had NOT told her and she NEVER found out, which is entirely possible - YES, it would have helped if everyone had kept silent. The entire situation, where you became aware of it, would not have risen at all. No, tears. No pain. No struggle. But someone just HAD to talk - oh joy! Leaving you there to pick up the wreckage. Now to quote you specificly: ""(s)he is my friend and I will not let my friend be played like a fool." then later "I won't sleep with that as my thought of comfort." Just who are you seeking to shield from pain here?

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271750]But Spring by talking to your friend "Did you know your spouse is .." YOU made YOUR spouse complicit-- so you trying to have it both ways; be lily-white and a 'good friend' while being a total #%%^@ to your spouse - you remember -SPOUSE- the one you said you loved?

So I guess you LIED because if you can do that to your spouse then you really do not love your spouse.

There really is no way out, Spring, except to mind your own business and keep your mouth shut.[/QUOTE]

By 'lily-white' I assume you mean keeping good with my spouse. Well, my spouse would also want to know if they were in this situation so she would (and does) understand.

Problem is my spouse isn't the one being cheated on, my friend (in this scenario) is.

Also, I wouldn't have lied because I made no agreement not to inform my friend of his partners extra marital activities.

Any bad feelings fall, not on me, not on my friend, not on my spouse, BUT THE PERSON WHO IS CHEATING ON MY FRIEND. They chose their course of action, and they are responsible for their action, not me or anyone else.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271750]
Big-
Let us review a small point. Big runs over and tells his best buddy that buddy's wife is 'cheating' outcome = disbelief and destruction of friendship. Because buddy doesn't believe him, thinks big is insulting his wife and therefore insulting buddy, or buddy at least pretends thus because if buddy admitted to his wife cheating he will be publicly acknowledging that he (buddy) isn't a man - hasn't got 'enough dick ' to keep his wife.

Just think, if your spouse's friend had kept his/her big mouth shut - if your spouse had kept his/her big mouth shut - you would not be in this position.[/QUOTE]

I would say, if my spouses friend had kept it in their pants they would not be in that position. Having people find out about ones cheating is a consequence of cheating, no?

Why do you think that telling his friend would automatically destroy their friendship? That is a huge assumption.
Big's friend would at least have an opportunity to ask his spouse himself and find out for himself whether his spouse was cheating or not, and more importantly, why.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271774]Let me bring Dr.Janis Abrahms Spring, who has been counseling couples on this topic for more than 20 years and /Snip

[/QUOTE]

Reads as; lie to my spouse for my own benefit, without consideration of what they want in a relationship (for example, exclusivity, honesty, truth.)

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271774]
"there is no correct response. It's not always better to confess or to conceal."[/QUOTE]

The reason that there is no 'correct response' is because correctness went out the window when spouse cheated and concealed it.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271774]
"In a 1988 study by Annette Lawson, up to 40% of women and 30% of men said that their confessions did irreparable damage to their marriages." p253
[/QUOTE]

Lemme fix this;
[QUOTE=Spring1978uk;271781]"Up to 40% of women and 30% of men said that their affairs did irreparable damage to their marriages." [/QUOTE]

Horse first then cart.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;271774]'After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful' [/QUOTE]

how do you rebuild trust whilst you are lying to them? Say you 'rebuild' your marriage, then somewhere down the line the cheated spouse finds out you had an affair and hid/lied about it, all your 'rebuilding' just went to shit because you just showed your partner;

a) You will cheat on them.

b) you will deceive them.

c) you don't respect them enough to let them choose whether they want to be in a relationship with a person that does a) and b)

EEK, I don't see any of the quotes of Dr Spring that states it was good for the partner, only that it maintained their marriage. Now, we all know that maintaining marriage isn't the ultimate "good" either. As far as I see it, by withholding the truth, you're denying your partner a clear judgment of your marriage. You're treating him/her as lesser competent of deciding than yourself. And on that basics, any attempt to build trust is a lie in itself.

I won't go into details, but it wasn't possible for her not to find out. She knew "something" was wrong, it was just waiting for the day he'd tell her "what". And it was him that decided to give it all up, even though she was contemplating on giving it another shot. Perhaps it was "pride" being hurt, I'd more call it: Feeling toyed with. Fooled. Unfair treatment. Betrayed. I can tell you that there was not much pride left, only shame. Which was very hard to get out of her head; don't feel shame for something he should be ashamed of!

No, I haven't seen exceptions. It's not about the existence of happy marriages (I know they do and happy for people like you), it's the fact that anyone can disappear. Sudden death, sudden illness, sudden change of heart. It could happen today, tomorrow, any day. What matters is: you remain an individual and your choices remain yours.

Yes, I wrote that I won't sleep with that as my thought of comfort. But that's for the exact opposite reason of what you make of it now. I won't make up excuses, to make myself feel better. When I know what should be done. I think Big is putting it quite right: "between you and RR both are arguing that selfishness is a reason for talking or not talking depending on your opinion." Though it certainly does not mean to preach a lack of selfishness at all costs, as that would make a person selfless. At some point: you need to be thinking about yourself and your own needs as well, or you'll drown taking care of others. In this case; I think lack of selfishness is required. I think we all agree on that.

Big, you've gotten a whole lot of input on the ethics, values, perceptions on loyalty and possible scenario's and outcomes. I think it would be time for the persons in this situation, to start making up their mind. Personally: I believe that when a person thinks clearly and consciously about the aspects mentioned and makes a decision based on what (s)he feels is right, without making up excuses, with respect for the others' competence, with no harm in mind and with best interest for others at heart, then they've at least done everything possible in the attempt to be a respectful human being.

I would ask, RR, where you got your ideas re: marriage from because it is NOT like any other relationship, including friendship.

You all are placing the value of Friendship well above that of Marriage and I am wondering - why? What is so important about friendship, in your eyes, that you would willingly consign your spouse to infamy and damn your marriage for a mere friendshiip?

Please - read the research and then get back to me about - precisely - why you think friendship is MORE important than marriage.

Because the only option is the one posted by Dancing Doc way back in the beginning of this thread.

Spring - why does it destroy friendships and marriages? - because either way - it does. If you tell your friend or if you don't tell your friend - your relationship ends after revelation. Many women say at the time of revelation "I wish I had known." but for many that's a lie. (research again) They end up blaming you, the friend, for the failure of their marriage. Cognitive dissonance perhaps but if she still loves the man, she has to think well of him in order to think well of herself so she will blame you. So, tell? You the friend are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Your choice.

Because to my eyes, you all are operating on HEARSAY. You're trusting that what your spouse told you is true and yet damning your spouse's marriage to you by devaluing your spouse's confidence -all for what is essentially GOSSIP.

Yes, RR, people aren't permanent which is precisely why you should firmly stick with your spouse for as long as you have them. May I just point out that the erring spouse's reasons may be quite other than selfishness? Unfair treatment? Really, so he should resign himself to being married and yet totally without sex for what 20 to 30 years? Who exactly is being unfair in that situation? Review all of the threads in here. Is the ONLY alternative you will permit divorce - leaving a bunch of broken families behind as partners leap from marriage to marriage? Your friend RR may have felt shame for reasons she was unwilling to admit even to you.

Respect - I wish you would respect your fellow humans enough to permit them to be human - that is to err without being so judgemental as to impose a 'one solution that fits all' upon them.

Wow, that's alot of reading and info to digest

what about door #3 ....
where you speak to your own wife and persuade her to go back to the source and find out if everything is ok within the relationship. Are there circumstances where we (my wife and I) can provide moral or spiritual support for either party? Plus letting her know that the longer it lasts, the more damage it will do overall. I would rather offer a bit of support to the offending party to get back on track instead of tearing down walls in the name of my own conscience.

After that, you can leave it up to the cheating partner to make the right decision

HT, I think that was the first door that was suggested. And I still do think of that as the best option. It's just a question of what lies beyond that option. Judging by EEKs last post, it seems she even thinks that first suggested option was a good idea.

So, let's all pray that this spouse (of which I'm still not sure it is a man or woman), will take it as a good suggestion and be on it's way to his/her cheating buddy to have a talk. Gender doesn't matter, would just make the referring easier :)

EEK, I believe I owe you a reply, instead of rudely disregarding your remarks. I know I've brought it up as example and therefor have made you free to comment and ask questions. I think you're being very much assuming about their relationship. But right now, I'll have to excuse myself from further explanation. Not because I don't know, but I feel it would be disrespectful to share any more details. One of them is still alive and frankly; I wish him all the best. Believe it or not. I do respect my fellow humans.

No I do not see anyone as a victim - what I see are two unhappy people trying to muddle through as best as they can being denied the chance to win or lose, succeed or fail on their own as a couple (growth) by their well-meaning friends.

I did NOT come from a broken home. I came from a home which held together through thick and thin and intermittent warfare. I expect marriages to stick and I expect my spouse to put me before all others as I put him before all others with the one exception of our children. Selecting your spouse is the most important decision a human being can make; believing this, I took my time and vetted men very carefully before accepting a proposal after making it perfectly clear that the only way out of this marriage was via being put 6 feet under.

Certainly, stick with your morals and I shall stick with mine.

Our children first, spouse second, other family third and all others -I'll get back to you.

To answer the question to where my ideas regarding marriage come from: I come from a home broken by my father's tyrannic behavior towards both his wife and children. My grandparents from both sides stuck together till death, which also made no happy home, nor happy endings. I know our experiences influence us and change who we are. Though I do reckon freedom of choice to (re)building your own life. My values and behavior in relationships tend to be somewhat paradoxical. Being a romantic loyalist: once I commit, I lovingly care for the other and have a burning desire to make it last. Being a passionate realist: anything happens, people change and grow, dance on their own two feet.

I'd say there is an ultimate stage of natural evolution of a relationship. Forgive me the comparison, but I think that is like freely spinning cogs that click so well that they start to harmonically cooperate as a unity. People that remain individuals with their own "spinning", but therefor also empowering and complimenting eachother. That may pose some resistance every once in a while, keeping eachother "sharp" and "fresh". And while one is losing energy, the other could help it along. While one is spinning overheated, the other could slow it down. Or start spinning the other way; opening new opportunities that actually could also work.

Many relationships seem to lose their spinning, the harmony breaks down, the gear wears down unevenly and start to mismatch. Some naturally make room, allowing the other to spin freely, while sticking around closely. Some blast the other away to oblivion. Some wait too long to start interfering; they get stuck, overheat and explode into nasty bits. Now they both need a lot of repairing to be able to spin again.

More outcomes off course to be left to the imagination of you fine people :)

Sorry, RR, but, yes, we were happy - exasperated and annoyed at times but yes, actually very happy. My husband and I might growl upon occasion but we're happy too.

I'm glad there are happy relationships/families like yours. And I actually think some growling is good to do at times. When I growl and act grumpy, it's a good sign our relationship is that trusted that I can be myself, also when I do not feel ok :)

1: If my spouse comes to me with such info about another marriage, we decide together how to respond.....
2:.....if at all.

My own tendencies would be, not at all. In the vast majority of cases, the adulterous marriage is an A, B one that I would see myself out of. Except of course to provide a loving, supportive shoulder to either member should they choose to cry on it. If the marriage were that of a FAMILY member, my answer might be different, out of a protective instinct. But I'd be certain enough to sign a contract in blood before I said word one.

Barring the familial exception noted above:

Not my marriage. Not my situation to evaluate, judge, or presume to make decisions about. Thus the question is begged: who the **** am I? Running my own life between job, schooling, house, marriage, family dynamics, friendships, etc etc ad nauseum, is far more than enough for me, but thanks for the offer. I don't have the time or energy to presume to tell another couple how theirs should be run, let alone try to run it FOR them. Which is kind of what you do when you say "if you don't tell him/her, I will". You're asserting yourself into a position of authority over THEIR marriage.

Int, whatever life we find important enough to protect, is a tough decision and one in which we have to make choices. I mean that, no pun intended. Some of my friends are closer to me than my family. Which may give another point of view for me.

Off course I would never result to such matters, without double checking. And only when everything else has failed. My posts perhaps seem like I'd go for extremes over a night, but practically: I am generally rather patient and understanding. It doesn't last forever, though. Since by remaining silent, I'm also picking the side I don't want to endorse. While the one cheating is making him/herself superior over their partner. (S)He has no right to that authority either. It is not part of the marital contract, at least not any more in my part of the world.

The only thing I would want to accomplish, is empower the one being cheated with the knowledge. The empowerment any human-being with the capability to decide over their own life, deserves. I'll try to stimulate that, I don't pretend to be in whatever position to know what they'll decide. If it should really come to it (and that would be a sad day), I think I will give my friend a choice; the opportunity to hear or refuse. Just like a doctor would ask you if you want to know your test results or not. I have given that opportunity on other occasions and that seemed to be a good approach at which people felt respected in their dignity...

I think I need to start emphasizing to my friends once more, that if I ever get into such situations, they should damn be willing to tell me. Immediate opportunity to ask their preferences ;) If the day ever comes, perhaps I will call it "contracted" instead of married, hoping that they will continue to see me as individual.

LOL - as if I am not an individual, RR?

Off course you are! I don't think I needed to write that, since it was rhetorical, but still ;):)

It's just that, it seems to make a huge difference in this thread... But perhaps that's my interpretation and am I reading things wrong. Maybe I'm putting the thread of track now, but it just interests me dearly. Say that the one who confided you with this information, was not your spouse. Say (s)he was your partner in a long-term-relationship. Say that the person cheating on the other was not married, but having a long-term-relationship that you know is exclusive. Would that make a difference?

RR, if they're not married there is no adultery.

Let me be clear - if you want exclusivity - marry him/her.
Don't be so clingy, weak, and insecure that you demand what is a spouse's right if you are not willing to be his/her spouse.

I see what you're driving at, EEK, but that one's in the eye of the relationship member. it's another one of those "there's no all or nothing" situations. If two members of an LTR agree that it's an exclusive relationship, the concept of adultery does exist, because they have agreed it does. Again - THEIR relationship to define and manage.

As for the original question, it comes down to what the possessor of the information is comfortable doing. You have to decide for yourself. And, since for many of us the question is rhetorical (because we've never been in the situation), our answers might change when the question becomes practical.

I agree with Int on that. I socialize with married and unmarried (wo)men, sometimes with both of the same couple. I don't think less/better of them, because of their state martial state. Same goes when it comes down to divorced (wo)men, single parents, consciously unmarried mothers, eternal singles, (wo)men who decide to remain widow, etc. If they're happy, I'm happy for them.

True, Int. It would be very much coincidental if we were to encounter the exact situation as described, unless the spouse is on this forum thinking: "aye, that sounds like me!" ;)

True, Int - but still, it seems incredibly - to me at least - possessive.

I also approve Ints message!

EEK, why does it seem possessive to you? It's just two people who agree not to be with other people.

Possessiveness would be (to me) one person trying to limit the activities of their partner as opposed to a willing agreement by both parties.

So we agree that it's their relationship to define and manage. Back to the fact that that also applies to the reconciliation of what I might consider adulterous activity.

Because as we have just got done proving, what I consider adulterous, EEK does not. And she's not the only one with her opinion. And neither am I the only one with mine. And ours are not the only two distinct opinions on the subject.

If they are to define and manage their relationship their way, which we have also all just got done agreeing they do, who am I to butt in and say "you need to know your spouse/partner is in another relationship" or "I know you're in another relationship and if you don't tell your spouse/partner, I will". Cause that's called: me attempting to define and manage their relationship.

Again, all with the caveat that if it's a family member (or as in RR's example, a friend who may as well be a family member), my protective instinct would kick in IF I HAD INDISPUTABLE PROOF.

Spring - WHY do they need to be exclusive and yet unmarried?

It seems like some sort of a 'test' - can you be loyal? is your adoration sufficently abject? can you forsake all others for as long as it takes for me to be 'ready to committ'? also why do you need to control what he/she does on his/her own time? Just what is your issue?

Motives matter.

EEK, they don't 'need' to be exclusive and unmarried, but if they agree to do so, it's their call.

It's kinda like sexual orientation, or preference; if I prefer a certain body type/ethnicity/hair color/size/relationship model, then who has just cause to tell me I shouldn't want that?

Also, premarital relationships ARE a test (assuming they intend to get married at some point,) with the goal of finding suitable partner(s) otherwise all (monogamous) people would marry the in the first relationships that they had.

Isn't that the reason you advocate inclusive dating (which I agree with)

It's not even about marriage or exclusivity anyways, it's about two people who agreed to be in an exclusive relationship, one of whom has chosen to break the terms of the relationship without informing the other and possibly exposing them to disease and/or emotional turmoil.

You are a friend witnessing this, and really it all comes down to what kind of friend you are. Maybe your friend would resent you for telling them about their cheating s/o, maybe they already know, maybe they approved it! Or maybe they don't know or are already suspicious. But really what matters is what would your friend want you to do in this situation.

Each of us are reacting/responding from our own personal perspectives which come from our own personal experiences, none of which are wrong but are only suited to us.