Here's an interesting article comparing the pull out method to condom use. It claims the pull out method is nearly as good as a condom, which goes contrary to what you hear most people say. Also, most people think that precum is teaming with sperm. The article claims that this is not true. Is it legit? Read and decide. I don't have the medical expertise to say one way or the other.
[URL="http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/140794"]http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/140794
OK, withdrawal is better than shooting away. But not as good as anything else. I would point out that this is, appropriately, a highly controlled study. To have gotten such good success with condoms would require high control and responsible test subjects. To get this level of success with withdrawal would require an equal amount of motivation and care in getting it out in time.
The Biblical reference is hazy. Specifically, the story of Onan and casting his seed upon the ground with his dead brother's wife is where the religious ban on contraception began. Onan had violated civil law of the day and it became canonical law when someone wrote it up in the Old Testament.
Cowper's fluid does not have sperm exactly. The reproductive system of a male has lots swimming around. When Cowper's is isolated, it is sperm free. During sexual excitation, sperm do leave the prostate early and contaminate the fluid. Hence, we say to teat the fluid as though it did contain sperm.
The male ejaculation, especially in young men, often comes unexpectedly. Sometimes as contact is made and often on the first or second thrust. If people follow the rules precisely, perhaps a reasonable level of success can be expected but clumsy teens in the back seat have all sorts of difficulties that can leave sperm in the vagina or at the entrance.
Most contraceptives are advertised with their theoretical levels of success. When measured in real world use, the success is much lower. Note the article says condoms have a 2% failure rate. That is unreasonable. In real life, the failure rate approaches fifteen percent and that is mainly as a result of sperm swimming around the open end. The pill allows three pregnancies per hundred women, annually, pregnant. There is no way that withdrawal in the real world would approach that level of success.
These studies have been appearing forever and will continue. The better the controls on the studies, the better the results will appear. When pharma companies are testing pills, they actually ring the woman each day at the same time to insure compliance. At the same time, questions are asked about medication and supplements to insure the results are not affected. With training and motivation, withdrawal can be more effective than it is in hurried teen sex.
Until each man and woman is trained and has demonstrated competence in getting out at the right time, use real protection. The same is true of the various systems of timing whether simple basal temperature or the more complex analysis of the mucous plug in the cervical os. Great results are reported in testing but are rarely translated into the real world.
Jones, R., Fennell, J., Higgins, J. & Blanchard, K. (2009). Better than nothing or savvy risk-redution practice? The importance of withdrawal. Contraception, 79, 407 - 410.
Haven't read it yet, but the fact that its been peer-reviewed and published says something.
Did they do a control to make sure all participants could have children, making sure a man wasn't sterile or the woman infertile? And I know married couples who will try for months to conceive before it happens and teenagers who will have sex for the first time condom breaks and she gets pregnant. But here is the thing, the pull out method doesn't give you any protection against STD's condoms do and although they aren't perfect they do give you a better chance than the pull out method. and if you do get a very unwanted (teenage specifically) pregnancy with a condom, at least you can say you tried, lets say you are a teenager and you have to explain why you or your partner is/are pregnant, if you say you at least used a condom shows that you are mature saying you used the pull out method shows that you doesn’t know what your possibly getting yourself into when you have sex.
The major problem with pulling out (in time) is that guys often do not!
Why, because the feelings are so gooood that our brain more often than not tells us to go ahead and finish. After the fact, our rational brain "wakes up" and asks us "oh, no, what did I just do?"
If a person wants to use the pull out method, practice the control method described in the article on Premature Ejaculation listed in the Index.
What? No condom? Unless and until you are ready to become an a father, wear one. The world has plenty of examples in which the statistics favored the other side of the percentages. Do not fool with Mother Nature.
i have a friend that got a girl pregnant even though he "pulled out". always use some sort of bith control people
For about 3 years straight this was the me & my ex's preferred method of birth control, not that we needed one with my family history of low sperm count and her endomytriosis and highly irregular periods. We never once had a pregnancy scare (except for that one time when the condom broke and we didn't know it), and it was absolutely never a problem where I would forget to pull out or she didn't have enough warning to get off of me in time. Communication will go a very long way towards preventing such 'accidents'. Self control, doubly so. This isn't for the weak willed.
That said, USE A RUBBER. We knowingly took the risks and went in to it with plenty of research and consideration. Again, USE A CONDOM.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, my current play partner is on the pill and still requires me to use a condom. I, of course, happily oblige.
So suit up before heading in, it's always better to be safe than to be sorry for the next 18 years :)
The article, assuming it is true, gives quite a different perspective on it than you find in most places, including here. I thought it was interesting because it perhaps explains some things. My gf and I have been practicing the withdrawal method for a while. If I put on a condom, she rips it off. We both want children, but now it not the best time. We can deal with the risk, however. She all natural and doesn't like the idea of using something artificial. She doesn't wear makeup and doesn't shave (and doesn't need to). I used to think that either there was something wrong with me or I had just been lucky. Now I think that I just haven't been unlucky.
its still irresponsible to not wear a condom. the pull out method still clearly has a larger rate of failing. my 2 year old could prove that lol.
This thread has served to make an excellent point: There are strident believers in many things physical, especially sexual, who go to great lengths to prove or find studies that prove their irrational belief. Believing that the pullout method is nearly as effective as hormonal or, even, condoms is irrational. For every finding such as this article, there are a dozen finding the opposite. Do not have faith in everything.
Virtually all textbooks and all marketing literature give the success rates of various forms of contraception that are much higher than actually experienced in practice. These things are used by people and we are sometimes careless. It takes only one slip up to end up pregnant.
The pullout method is more subject to error than most systems are.
[QUOTE=Brandye;239622]This thread has served to make an excellent point: There are strident believers in many things physical, especially sexual, who go to great lengths to prove or find studies that prove their irrational belief. Believing that the pullout method is nearly as effective as hormonal or, even, condoms is irrational. For every finding such as this article, there are a dozen finding the opposite. Do not have faith in everything.
Virtually all textbooks and all marketing literature give the success rates of various forms of contraception that are much higher than actually experienced in practice. These things are used by people and we are sometimes careless. It takes only one slip up to end up pregnant.
The pullout method is more subject to error than most systems are.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between stumbling across something that was found on a non- sex, public forum and going "to great lengths". It is interesting that those who claim to be in the medical field are so quick to slam studies or articles (or the poster) that are contrary to what is preached ad nauseum on sex websites such as this one. Somethings presented on these sites by those who should know better are patently false. There are agendas to be maintained. Caveat emptor prevails. When presented when the facts, it is like, uh, well, ok, yeah, that it true, but overall it false, without presenting the facts to the contrary.
Nobody is saying the withdrawal method is a 100% effective. Neither is a condom; neither is a pill. If pregnancy is not acceptable, then more than one method should be employed.
From what one reads on sites like this by those that claim to be in the medical field, withdrawal is tantamount to doing nothing. Presented with the facts, it becomes, well, it IS better than doing nothing.
It can't even be rationally debated. The article delves into the reasons why. Now I understand. Thank you.
Hold on, Bote. If you want a fight, you can usually find one. You have quoted a journalists version of what was published in Contraception 79 (2009) pp. 407-410. Go read the article. Rachel Jones, whom I know, is Senior Researcher at the Guttmacher Institute. This Institute is a spinoff from Planned Parenthood and is an excellent research facility working in support of the WHO.
The little article you cite is very selective in what was taken from the original article. For instance, the two percent theoretical failure of the condom is shown as 17 percent in actual use. And the four percent failure of withdrawal is shown as nearly five times that IN MOTIVATED and trained couples. The article goes on to explain that there is some difficulty in studying the effectiveness of withdrawal because most couples use it in conjunction with other methods. Jones' conclusion is that it is more widely used method than most researchers believe with better effectiveness than many give credit in couples who are self-limiting their conception.
For practical purposes, withdrawal for teens who really do not know what they are doing, withdrawal is nearly useless.
Before you get all worked up over being abused, you should check original citations rather than some blogger (or semi-journalist) who does not know how to read scientific literature. You will find that Rachel uses some of the same words I did in qualifying how withdrawal can be successful. Trained, motivated.
In third world countries where nothing else is conveniently available, teaching the population how to use withdrawal can be effective. I have done it. That does not mean I am willing to recommend to a bunch of people who "have done it twice"" (quote from a post today) that they depend upon it.
You did not go to great lengths but the "journalists" went to some lengths to twist Rachel's findings.
Well, as an amateur, I feel there as so many variables in the equation and anyone with the basic research knowledge must realise that even the best reliable and valid research is vulnerable to criticism. There is a lot of advice out there on all manner of things from cigarettes to alcoholism. A professional can only give the details; whether you want to conform, consent (see BMA paper on the subject, June 2008) or ignore is up to the individual.
But I do recall a rugby song with the line "Till coitus interruptus f***ed us"
Apologies for the naughty word.
Look up the citation given on line and see how warped the secondary source is. Contraception is a respected journal in the field and the precis originally cited misses major elements.