Bad Threads on Circumcision

[BigKahuna]

I am here objecting to the two threads that are filled with nonsense and posted by a group (perhaps of one with different names) with a clear agenda.

- Can you see the irony in your effort? Circumcision was brought onto this world mainly by two books created by some groups with an agenda...

So, Kahuna, put your emotions aside and tell us what you know. I can respect that whether or not it results in agreement.

The case is pretty simple...

Babies are being cut with a knife... their genitals mutilated, and its pretty clear that they are not happy about it.In many places, there is still no anesthesia being used, putting the babies through incredible pain... and even in places it is... its drugging babies for unnecessary surgery... causing even more potential damage to our kids while taking away medical resources from people who need them.

Since anyone who wants to remove it can choose for themselves to do so later in life;

Why are we putting kids / allowing kids to go through such trauma?

Why are we not avoiding unnecessary surgery for ourselves and the system?

Why are we allowing religion to get in the way of common sense?

Why would we use anesthesia on such young children if we could avoid it?

Why is male circumcision ok, and female circumcision not ok? (they have their reasons for doing it to!)

[Mr. Saint]

Circumcision is a very emotional topic, so it is hard to have a logical academic debate about it. I have to criticize both sides about how they acted. Even you Brandye, you used your fare share of fallacies and slanted language. I don’t know if you should delete the thread, but the debate should be over (Kahuna). Also, am I one of the people on your hit list?

[sera300]

Originally Posted by BigKahuna

- Can you see the irony in your effort? Circumcision was brought onto this world mainly by two books created by some groups with an agenda...



The case is pretty simple...

Babies are being cut with a knife... their genitals mutilated, and its pretty clear that they are not happy about it.In many places, there is still no anesthesia being used, putting the babies through incredible pain... and even in places it is... its drugging babies for unnecessary surgery... causing even more potential damage to our kids while taking away medical resources from people who need them.

***Topical anesthesia is not an issue. How would a baby know they are not happy about it when 2 days old. Using non-topical is barbaric.

Since anyone who wants to remove it can choose for themselves to do so later in life;

***Do you believe a young man [teen] can make such choice after becoming sexually active and contracting a disease they may not be aware they carry?

Why are we putting kids / allowing kids to go through such trauma?

***Babies are traumatized?

Why are we not avoiding unnecessary surgery for ourselves and the system?

***Perhaps people trust medical opinions too much such as obesity causing Gallbladder disease and have no choice since diet was so poor due to lack of knowledge/care for their bodies?

Why are we allowing religion to get in the way of common sense?

***Religion? No issue in the US.

Why would we use anesthesia on such young children if we could avoid it?

***They also cut their faces and require anesthesia for sutures. Holding them down to skip the use is barbaric.

Why is male circumcision ok, and female circumcision not ok? (they have their reasons for doing it to!)

***Why circumcise a woman? What is the benefit? I suggest if parental education is instituted there should be no such need since women suffer the outcome of disease--men harbor HPV without symptoms; meanwhile, women have Genital warts. When women void we "wipe" and cause friction...men just shake their penis off. Personal opinions & observations only. Being "cut" is not mandatory.

[BigKahuna]

***Topical anesthesia is not an issue. How would a baby know they are not happy about it when 2 days old. Using non-topical is barbaric.

How would a baby know? Listen to him scream when they cut. From the numbers I've seen, a very significant percentage of circumcisions happen without.

***Do you believe a young man [teen] can make such choice after becoming sexually active and contracting a disease they may not be aware they carry?

holy propaganda batman!
You can contract an std without foreskin for starters...
what does having an std have to do with making the decision?

***Babies are traumatized?

This isn't even worth replying to... are you really that.....?

***Perhaps people trust medical opinions too much such as obesity causing Gallbladder disease and have no choice since diet was so poor due to lack of knowledge/care for their bodies?

Again with the statements that don't make any sense... The foreskin has a purpose... removing it to avoid possible problems is like cutting off people's feet to prevent athletes foot... would it work? YES... is it a good way to deal with athletes foot? Only if you are nuts...

***Religion? No issue in the US.

Not to get away from the focus here, but this clearly shows your delusion... they are trying to teach freaking intelligent design as science in the classrooms... and you think religion is not an issue in the US... good grief...

***They also cut their faces and require anesthesia for sutures. Holding them down to skip the use is barbaric.

Again with crazy talk... all i have to say is WHAT?!?!

***Why circumcise a woman? What is the benefit?

you want a reason, here's one: it would be that much less skin to possibly get skin cancer on...

I suggest if parental education is instituted there should be no such need since women suffer the outcome of disease--men harbor HPV without symptoms; meanwhile, women have Genital warts. When women void we "wipe" and cause friction...men just shake their penis off. Personal opinions & observations only. Being "cut" is not mandatory.

Just to clarify, you want all men to have their penis cut so that women have a lower chance of getting HPV?

There are better ways to avoid an std then cutting off part of the penis in the small chance it helps. The best way is to choose your partners carefully...

[curious_woman]

Look, I was just trying to put a neutral thought because everyone else here is chewing each others heads off. Personally, if I have a son he will NOT be circumsized. BUT he will be taught to use protection and clean himself, minimizing the risks of infection. BK I understand your concerns but your comments are quite out of line, relating what I said to abuse is totally out of context. Not all who are circumsized consider themselves "victims" as you put it. As I said I was trying to be neutral, yet you flamed me even more than Brandye. Apparently there is something more I'm missing?

[BigKahuna]

- A nephew of mine was circumcised recently... so their is some built up frustration... Children are getting their genitals mutilated... and its additionally frustrating to see requests for censorship of people fighting it.

- The example used was harsh... but it points out the hypocrisy effectively...

- You don't have to know you are a victim of something to be one.

- My discussion/debate with Brandye had just started... and you wanted to silence it with hypocrisy... you don't have to read the thread if you don't like it...

[sera300]

BigK:

It's not mandatory in the US. If a male is left intact, parents cleansed their male sons properly, taught them how to retract the foreskin to eliminate smegma & disease build up, taught them proper sex ed rather than ignoring the topic, there would be no issue. Same with teaching of females regarding proper hygiene [no Snicker bars inserted into a vagina, etc.].

However, in Medical practice people FAIL to talk to their children & teens about proper care & safe sex.

Same with elderly men, they like to think they are cleansing well...the garbage I have removed is frankly gross. Same with elderly women who wreak of urine.

Many matters could be eliminated if such was taught openly. When practicing medicine, you might [or might not] be surprised as to what people do. Circumcision is elective...the talk needs to go to the parents & not to medical personnel who "fix" medical problems.

Same with pregnancy, how not to become pregnant seems to be another matter which is ignored or non-issue to certain people. 14 y/o girls with 1-2 children, no jobs, living off generational welfare is not acceptable.

[sera300]

Originally Posted by BigKahuna

How would a baby know? Listen to him scream when they cut. From the numbers I've seen, a very significant percentage of circumcisions happen without.

***Where I am it's used. I held my nephew for the elective procedure. Choose the doc carefully. I would question the docs who did the ones you watched. I read the consents for my nephew...they were very detailed pro/con. I went with him to ensure it was done as stated. Ever see the pain a teen or older man has? That is traumatic! If I were a man, I doubt I would do it as an adult. I would hate my parents for not doing it at 2 days old.



holy propaganda batman!
You can contract an std without foreskin for starters...
what does having an std have to do with making the decision?

****Smegma & bacteria harbors diseases often without symptoms for the man who is not cut. Agreed yes cut men can get similar diseases but less incidences--poor sex practices are to blame and women who allow no condoms are equally at blame.



This isn't even worth replying to... are you really that.....?

****Really that what? Not a Medical practitioner? Or ignorant?



Again with the statements that don't make any sense... The foreskin has a purpose... removing it to avoid possible problems is like cutting off people's feet to prevent athletes foot... would it work? YES... is it a good way to deal with athletes foot? Only if you are nuts...

***Demonstrated by Medical professionals removing the foreskin does reduce risks. Proper sex ed is needed in the US.



Not to get away from the focus here, but this clearly shows your delusion... they are trying to teach freaking intelligent design as science in the classrooms... and you think religion is not an issue in the US... good grief...

****No, not a religious issue in the US. People are beginning to THINK before they make an informed consent. Delusional? Sorry, no. Try treating yourself for Sepsis or ARDS. I have "over-rode" religious beliefs such as no blood transfusions or surgery if it's life threatening under implied consent. Religion? Want me to open a window or door for a dying person to "free the soul" fine...I'll do it. Cut for religion? Nope, since it's not a life saving measure--again parental, informed consent in the US. I must abide by these parental wishes or lose my license. Additionally I am Catholic...and do not believe personally in the Catholic teachings...no premarital sex? I don't believe in such teachings or in abstinence.



Again with crazy talk... all i have to say is WHAT?!?!

All I can say; if one does not like the system effectuate change.

****Lack of words? We have to follow parental informed consent.



you want a reason, here's one: it would be that much less skin to possibly get skin cancer on...



Just to clarify, you want all men to have their penis cut so that women have a lower chance of getting HPV?

***Have HPV see how much fun it is because men go outside of marriage and get "stupid happy" & think with their penis and bring a disease home to a wife...many diseases.

There are better ways to avoid an std then cutting off part of the penis in the small chance it helps. The best way is to choose your partners carefully...

MUCH AGREED. It's a blast when the spouse has some fun on the side, lies, and then you are sick and loose a child.
TOO bad his penis did not fall off! And there was a time these people were ethical.


Hang out in a VD clinic & an ER you would be shocked at what people do to themselves and partners. Stat's are collected by the DOH for reasons. This also includes "self-mutilation" for sexual satisfaction--all types. SOme women think for a diaphragm "jelly" can be spermicidal OR Schmucker's [sp?] Grape!

[BigKahuna]

MUCH AGREED. It's a blast when the spouse has some fun on the side, lies, and then you are sick and loose a child.
TOO bad his penis did not fall off! And there was a time these people were ethical.

you have some serious issues...

[sera300]

Originally Posted by BigKahuna

you have some serious issues...

No, he had serious issues. Disease and child out of wedlock. Now, he gets to pay for his mistake on her (not to me)! I went through the abnormal Paps, Punch BX, Endometrial BX, and now a return of severe dysplasia. Laser surgery & Cryo. for me due to his lack of intelligence and his thinking with the wrong head. Additionally, I lost my child at 4 1/2 months--alone. Married to the idiot for many years...

I believe your user name says it all; over blown ego? Note mine?