Does money degrade sex? If so how? Why as well?
If money does degrade sex, if marriage is in fact mostly about money, is marital sex degraded?
Just curious...
Thu, 10/30/2008 - 13:21
#1
One more question for today...
Marriage is, in fact, mostly not about money unless you are living in a society in which arranged marriages still prevail. If you live in such a society then the entire process of treating not only daughters, but sons also, as negotiable goods is definitely degrading from the point of view of modern western society.
If you are a prostitute I would think money does not degrade sex; they do as they wish for finances. If a boyfriend or spouse left money on the nightstand [after sex]; he would find his way out the door--with my foot.
Take money out of the equation for you with regards to finances. Look at the major influential factors which are significant and should be part of the equation; shared values, goals, interests, trust, communication, compassion, and commitment.
Sorry, as I could afford to, I would not keep a "boy-toy". In my opinion that demonstrates poor taste individually [and as a human being] & not a life I live. Sex for money? No thanks.
What is it with the money & marriage??? Next time get a prenup!
How old are you, Wet_suit_one?
Or,
What life experiences have you had that would prompt these questions/
An inquisitive mind wants to know.
Doc,
I'm in my mid 30's. I have studied marriage and how it tends to turn out for a long time. I was engaged for a short while which, thankfully for everyone involved, did not continue. I have studied prostitution and those who go to prostitutes for a long while. Most of them are married men (surprise, surprise, well not really at all. Most men are or were, married after all). My studies have indicated a general disconnect between marriage as it actually is, marriage as people intend it to be these days and marriage as it was "designed" or "constructed" to serve certain political, social and economic goals.
In my view, in light of the situation surrounding marriage, the laws, the expectations, the economics etc. my own beliefs, experiences and so on, pay for play with platonic (and sometimes sexual relationships> seems like the most likely road to lead to my general happiness and well being.
So many ideas around sex, I find absolutely baffling. That's why I ask. I am trying to understand.
Did I answer your question Doc?
Cheers!
Leads to a damned lonely life...wait until you get older.
Also, study all the men who go out an reproduce children & walk away to never know them again. The burden falls upon the female to support their child; meanwhile, he pays not a penny or takes an iota of care for the child he assisted in producing. Maybe men who feel as such should have a mandatory vasectomy?
Sera,
One more reason why marriage should be really hard to get out of. It's about the children, not the adults (in my view).
The interesting thing about those married men who see prostitutes is that the majority of them want to stay married. They just want a bit of strange on the side. They aren't interested in shirking their duties.
I've posted the links on another thread. You should have a read, especially on www.terb.ca There's a lot of good discussion on that board about how men view marriage, sex, prostitution etc. It's quite enlightening as you mainly men, speaking without concern for social censure of their activity. They're not all completely dishonourable dogs (although there are definitely some real wolves in that pack).
I basically can't have kids without a whole lot more effort than mere sexual intercourse (lucky me!), so I'm not too worried about being the one of the men of whom you speak. I was taught never to be that man and I can't be. The message from my parents definitely stuck.
Hey Doc,
For more of my story see here:
http://www.sexinfo101.com/forum/other-sex-topics/25736-just-question-6.html
Cheers!
I was married with NO kids & the courts in my state are so strict it was tough to get out of! And then he fought it, not that he was returning, took forever! I do not live in a "No Fault State"...I hit him on all three recognized grounds.
Is it not being sexist about men & prostitutes? Should there not be the same paid service for women? No real talk--Just sex & they leave?
[quote=wet_suit_one;227793]Sera,
One more reason why marriage should be really hard to get out of. It's about the children, not the adults (in my view).
The interesting thing about those married men who see prostitutes is that the majority of them want to stay married. They just want a bit of strange on the side. They aren't interested in shirking their duties.
I've posted the links on another thread. You should have a read, especially on www.terb.ca There's a lot of good discussion on that board about how men view marriage, sex, prostitution etc. It's quite enlightening as you mainly men, speaking without concern for social censure of their activity. They're not all completely dishonourable dogs (although there are definitely some real wolves in that pack).
I basically can't have kids without a whole lot more effort than mere sexual intercourse (lucky me!), so I'm not too worried about being the one of the men of whom you speak. I was taught never to be that man and I can't be. The message from my parents definitely stuck.[/quote]
There should be the same paid service for women and there is in fact.
However, women just need to say "yes." Men have to pay. Just the facts ma'am, just the facts. :) For that reason, it's a way tougher gig to be a male prostitute. Most of your clients are gay males not women. In fact, it's the same for male strippers. If they want to make money, they strip for gay males not straight women.
Interesting isn't it?
[quote=wet_suit_one;227851]There should be the same paid service for women and there is in fact.
However, women just need to say "yes." Men have to pay. Just the facts ma'am, just the facts. :) For that reason, it's a way tougher gig to be a male prostitute. Most of your clients are gay males not women. In fact, it's the same for male strippers. If they want to make money, they strip for gay males not straight women.
Interesting isn't it?[/quote]
No, what if a woman just wanted him to show, do the deed, and depart? No idle chit chat! Rude if you just toss them out after they deliver...:)
Sera,
As I said, such services do exist for women. However, due to relatively low demand, such services are not broadly available, but they definitely are out there. A woman need not say yes she can make a call.
Actually in another thread, there is just such a story told by a woman who hired a prostitute. Very interesting indeed!
[QUOTE=sera300;227718]If you are a prostitute I would think money does not degrade sex; they do as they wish for finances. If a boyfriend or spouse left money on the nightstand [after sex]; he would find his way out the door--with my foot.
Take money out of the equation for you with regards to finances. Look at the major influential factors which are significant and should be part of the equation; shared values, goals, interests, trust, communication, compassion, and commitment.
Sorry, as I could afford to, I would not keep a "boy-toy". In my opinion that demonstrates poor taste individually [and as a human being] & not a life I live. Sex for money? No thanks.
What is it with the money & marriage??? Next time get a prenup![/QUOTE]
The first time or two she may feel degraded for accepting money for sex. Alot will do on her upbringing. If it is what she needs to do in order for her to survive then it becomes more and more acceptable to her, I would think. Feeling degraded is an emotion, you might just get to the point of who cares what others think, this is who I am and well they can like it or lump it.
Look at what posters are on kids walls these days? Do you really want your daughter to grow up and be like Paris or Britney? Or what mothers are doing to kids, or allowing to be done to their kids by entering them in these kiddie pagents? Is it really the kids or is it mom having her kids experience what she wanted to? Yet it is all what it is, life.
Smallest,
Thou art wise. It took me a long time to come to the wisdom of which you speak, but I'm darned glad I did! :D
Cheers!
Parents are pimping their kids...look at Hannah & the other's. I have only seen low end prostitutes who do it for drugs [bad life]...and a few high end call girls [they like the life-style]. The strippers I spoke with enjoy the power. I have never been in a position or would treat anyone that way so tough for me to tell how they would feel. I would clean first to support my kids.
WSO, thank you for the lovely compliment.
I have lived a very interesting and adventurous life. Some of it has been wonderful, all the travel and wonderful people I have met, and some of it tragic, losing my mom at 25, dad before I was 27 and my younger brother at 41 (he was 40). You have to take the bad to get the good, or else there is no life. I refuse to let it all get me down.
I had some issues at the beginning of August with my seizure medicine, on the hospital intake paperwork I wrote "I am Irish, Scottish and a female, yes I blow, but give me 5 minutes and I will cool."
I am approaching 48 faster than I choose to but I look forward to what else is instore for me til I turn 80. People may not understand what I say or why I say it, alot is because of ALL the experiences I have had the fortune of having. And sometimes how I say things are misunderstood, not all is ment in an unkind way, sometimes it just comes off that way. And yes some is ment in a unkind way, I kinda stick up for myself. tee hee hee.
rofl = roll on floor laughing, lmao = laugh my ass off, fofl = fall on floor laughing, see Doc there are so many ways to say lol or laugh out loud.
And frozen north? Is that Canada?
It is indeed. A fine land from sea to sea to sea (even if that last one is under ice most of the year... but global warming is taking care of that :)).
BTW Sera, there are a lot more working girls than those you speak of. Also, strippers (as a rule) are definitely not prostitutes. Power hungry, eh, in a manner of speaking yes, but not prostitutes.
Morally, your decision about how to feed your children is likely sound. Economically, perhaps not the best, but to each their own. Also, there's nothing wrong with cleaning. You speak of it like it is a repugnant thing or something...
I am not for sale which is why I would never do such, I would seek a job which is non-sexual to care for child. Especially since you set an example for your kids. I would not spread my legs for a guy to get off to feed my [non-existent] kids...I would do anything but that.
I know strippers are not prostitutes; however, they exchange heir body's for money...lady's do not do that in my view. Additionally, this opens up the matter of human sex-trafficking.
Strippers love the power they have over men...I have asked many.
[quote=wet_suit_one;227925]It is indeed. A fine land from sea to sea to sea (even if that last one is under ice most of the year... but global warming is taking care of that :)).
BTW Sera, there are a lot more working girls than those you speak of. Also, strippers (as a rule) are definitely not prostitutes. Power hungry, eh, in a manner of speaking yes, but not prostitutes.
Morally, your decision about how to feed your children is likely sound. Economically, perhaps not the best, but to each their own. Also, there's nothing wrong with cleaning. You speak of it like it is a repugnant thing or something...[/quote]
[QUOTE=wet_suit_one;227761]
I have studied prostitution and those who go to prostitutes for a long while. Most of them are married men
[/QUOTE]
I consider that a syllogism. The vast majority of people who go to prostitutes are unsatisfied with their current sexual situation. No more, no less. The blame for that may be an unhealthy marriage, but the source of that problem would be the two peoples choices, not "marriage." I am a bit behind on the threads due to a hell week followed by a Halloween celebration(HAPPY HALLOWEEN), but there is a disturbing trend in the type of links and arguments that I've seen which give me the impression that one has made up the mind prior to searching for the solution so that the only solution found is that which was already made.
funinthesun,
Huh? I am not sure I get your point, i.e. "trend in the type of links and arguments that I've seen which give me the impression that one has made up the mind prior to searching for the solution so that the only solution found is that which was already made."
Is there a logic problem you see? If so, kindly detail.
While it may look like a syllogism, from the self reported polls that I have (yes, not terribly accurate I know, but they are some evidence) most of the men are married. The working girls say the same thing. They can't all be wrong.
Sera, with respect to human sex trafficking, you do have a point. However, do you ever suppose that the problem is overblown? After all, there are more than enough women pretty much everywhere who are prepared to spread their legs for money. I wonder how much of it is b.s. myself, though I have absolutely no doubt that it occurs. Whether it is as big a problem as is suggested, well, I wonder...
That said, to make reasonably certain I don't contribute to the issue any more than necessary (simply being a sexually unsatisfied male who seeks out sex in the most efficient manner possible seems to make one part of the problem), I don't frequent places where I'm paying less than top dollar. I'm pretty sure my favourite working girl, when she drives away in her land rover and has been around for 4 years, is not a "trafficked" woman. Could be wrong, but you do what you can right?
Oh yeah, and with respect to exchanging one's body for money, I exchange my mind for money. Am I a whore?
Loving power over men, heck, I just love power, much like any politician, judge, warlord or pater familias ruling over his family. That a woman enjoys or desires power (e.g. Hillary Clinton) is not a bad thing, or am I somehow mistaken.
It's fine that you have decided that you cannot be purchased by financial means. I would argue that the fact that someone else has made a different decision isn't necessarily a bad thing though.
Also, all my male friends say that sex is never free. It does cost time, affection, love, caring and generally putting up with the negatives of the women in their lives. For some of us (especially those paid by the hour), a financial equivalent can be determined. It's not regarded the same as prostitution, but there is definitely a price that all women put on sex as hardly any of them give it away for free. Prostitutes tend to be more up front about it. That's all.
Also, the cost to married men for sex with their wives (along with all the other many benefits they obtain from a wife) is giving up all other women (as a rule, not necessarily). There is a tremendous opportunity cost in this.
Of course, women pay a price too. They have to put up with the man. I suppose they also have to put some effort into being desireable, which effort increases over time. They also run most of the serious risks of sex (pregnancy being the major one). However, with modern medicine, birth control and condoms, the risk to a woman is generally quite low. It's almost free to her. Really, for most women (and especially young women) all she has to do is shower, put on something nice and sexy and say yes. For the huge majority of men, it's never that easy.
And from this difference between the sexes, much angst, hilarity, agony, heartache and hijinks ensues.
I prefer the quick and easy way myself, I gives me dollars, I get me girl! :D
It's a contractual agreement for employment or similar. I believe that if women choose to be call girls or escorts...have at it. I believe it should be legal. Where I have an issue is the old pimp/prostitute part which is seen on lower levels in the US. I saw many while I was in the ER...and well, scary.
Later I met patients who were escorts and quite a few strippers; they have to be seen for a "cut finger" once in a while too [non-work related]. Had some interesting conversations with them. They made a choice later on to go into the profession v. those who were lead from the streets to such life-styles...gangs or drugs.
The strippers said it was about the money, power over men, and many were paying for Law School...a few were in Med School. The escorts? They enjoyed the money & lifestyle which their profession afforded them.
What I choose to "sell"; is only my brain power for employment which I donate the finances anyway. I select those I would have sex with; if a man offered me 2/m, I would turn it down. Now, 100/m for a evening? I may consider that since I could do a great deal for charities with the interest off the initial investment. I doubt I would ever have to consider it & I would still turn it down. :D
As much as I can see why and be okay with it being legalized, it's not for me. Meanwhile, I doubt the escort would want to suture people back together.
WSO, yes Canada is a fine land. I keep telling people that Canucks, not just the members of the hockey team, are very different from Americans. I guess I see it more than others, I have a few handful of relatives over there and well here in the US I have 1. So yes I am more Canadian than American, at least I think so, because of the fact that I was brought up by Canadian parents in an American house.
I find many differences between a person born and raised in Canada vs that of someone born and raised here in the US. I consider myself an American, it's where I was born and have always lived, yet I have more of the thought processes and beliefs of a Canadian because that is where my parents were raised. It is very hard to explain this, trust me I have tried.
Living here, about an hour north of the Detroit / Windsor border I explain it to people here as if you look at the landscaping of Detroit, which isn't always the best kept, and Windsor, where it seems like the streets are freshly swept in a blink of an eye. You can see the other shore from either side, it's just what it is. I also use the beer explaination. Here in the US I find that when you walk into a friends house and are asked if you would like a beer the answer is either yes or no, yet in Canada the answer is either no or they ask if you have the brand of beer they prefer. Maybe this has to do with the fact that here in Michigan I can by beer, wine or liquor at the local grocery store where as in, at least Ontario, you have to either go to a beer store or a liquor store. I sure do miss enjoying a good Bradors.