She has every right to be concerned about how a pregnancy would affect her future. She SHOULD, in fact, and so should you. I've seen it said on here that if you're not prepared to have adult responsibilities, you shouldn't be playing adult games. But that's why you use multiple forms of contraceptive.

Having said all that however...

[QUOTE=stryder;268160]...as she put it, "sex is only about procreation and you only should have sex if you want to have a baby"...[/QUOTE]

Bingo. There's your brick wall. She doesn't believe in the pleasure of sex, she only believes in the procreation of sex. I'm willing to bet she does NOT masturbate.

And that's in how she was raised. It's also possible there are religious undertones there. It's well known that much of mainline Catholicism teaches that any sexual act that doesn't have the possibility of conception is wasteful and therefore sinful. Don't get me wrong, not trying to demonize religion, I consider myself as faithful as the next girl. My point is merely that those kinds of teachings can be very deeply seated and very difficult to let go. She will only come to that point in her own time, on her own terms, if at all.

Dear Stryder,
Having read through all of it, I feel like some important points got a bit burried underneath the rest of the story. So I'd like to bring those back to the discussion;

-At the moment it seems that her fears of pregnancy is blocking nearly all intimacy between you two. Both of you should get educated on when pregnancy occurs and what the risks are. So read articles on this site, get to a sexual health center, get yourselves books, etc. This will ease her mind to finally enjoy the cuddling with you. Knowledge is empowering!
-You two seem to have very little experience. Does she like the petting, cuddling, etc between you two at all?
-And what about her own experience and comfort with her body? Does she masturbate?
-She is now very reluctant in touching your private parts or you touching her. Ducy asked it and I'll ask again; are there issues in her past? Was she abused? Had a conflicted or bad self-image (or perhaps still has now)? Did perhaps her mom or a sister or whoever close to her became a teenmom? Or someone that been through a horrible sexual or pregnancy-experience? Anything that could contribute to her fears?
-She takes a bc-pill for medical reasons. How long has she been on it? Is the use of it evaluated regularly with her physician of gynacologist? BC-pills can really affect a woman's sexdrive. She might want to consider a different brand and talk this over with her doctor.

I think that the two of you need to get a long way before we're talking penetrative sex. Because at this moment, I'm getting the feeling you're asking for sex is something that's very abstract to her. Like; hun, would you like to beetlebabble on the planet of Yadidah with me? What?! That's right :) Before we're talking sex, you need to be educated and know how to protect yourselves. And you need to be able to enjoy your own and eachothers bodies fully. That's what sex is all about: lots of fun and pleasure!

In her case, it seems that to even get to a comfortable state; you two need to share things together and communicate. Be patient, loving an caring. Make advanced cuddling a paradise of pleasure for her; the necking, petting, etc. Only after you've reach such a state, you can proceed to more sexual acts. Most likely; she will want to discover more pleasure! Getting comfortable with your own and eachother's private parts. And only after she feels perfectly fine and ecstatic about that, you may think of continuing towards actual penetrative sex.

I'm not saying you're relationship is not ok at the moment. I'm not saying your wish to have sex is in any way not ok. Not at all! You seem like a good guy that loves his girl! I just think the two of you could do with a few things as mentioned above, to enhance this relationship and come to a higher level. It will be beautiful to see her blossom into this vibrantly sexual young woman!

And please: Don't despair! I had no sexdrive at all till about 3,5 years back. I was convinced pleasure from sex was something made up by girls magazines. I thought I'd have sex to please my man and get a baby in return. I had bad experiences in my past I had to deal with that I could no longer ignore and my bf helped me. Now I am multi-orgasmic and hypersensitive.

So get to the Index which contains very valuable articles and start educating yourself and your girl.
[url=http://www.sexinfo101.com/forum/index-sexinfo101-board-topics/]INDEX OF SEXINFO101 BOARD TOPICS - SexInfo101.com Forum
I'm wishing you a wonderful journey together!

Forest Gump put it best "$h*t happens."

You don't necessarily NEED to dump her right now. But if things don't change, do not believe that you are some "monster" for it. That's the beauty of life. You are in control and responsible for YOURSELF. If you don't like something you deserve to be happy and change it.

Ok stryder. Love doesn't equal sex, just because you love someone doesn't mean you need to do it. You also don't need to be in love to have sex. Leaving her over sex is not a dick move. Its something societies flawed ideas that is thrust upon us. I see it like this...its wrong to leave someone over sex because it makes you look like a bad guy.

But if you get married, and deal with a crappy sex life and a unhappy relationship and you get dragged through the mud, your children suffer a divorce because you guys fight and argue non stop and its "Poor children dealing with a broken home". Well this woulda never happened if the people didn't let the idea that "sex is not a good reason to dump someone" wasn't forced around.

Call me weird but if you analyze it, it really makes sense. In the past we married for land, wealth, military might, we didn't marry for love. Then we "matured" and it turned to marry for love Nowadays it seems to be getting married for financial gain again. My friends all got married for insurance (2 friends married their bf's because they were prego and this way they could have medical for her and the child...yet they hate each other) several are military men and women getting married for the "spousal pay and off base and grocery pay" to make more money. Then others getting married for "gold digging" reasons, or because their "nice" and afraid that if they don't settle they will be forever alone.

She's asking if you would pay half her cost for bcp if you lived together because there would be something in it for you? Come on now. You haven't done anything (yes I am calling your 1 time incidents nothing since it was 1 time...there was virtually no experience to be gained) and she refuses to have sex even though she is on the pill. Ya she may take it for medical reasons, but your "intent" for taking it doesn't mean it changes its effects. Taking meth because you wanna be high doesn't mean it won't be addicting? You follow me?

I hate to say it but your first time will probably be lame. Its not gonna be this magical, both orgasming at the same time living happily ever after. It won't be raunchy porn style sex. It will be clumsy, you probably will lose your erection while trying to put a condom on. She will hurt, you won't spend enough time on foreplay, and you'll either take forever to cum, to the point that you'll stop, or you will cum too fast and be embarassed.

Argue all you want, but lettuce be cereal for a moment. You guys are virgins and your sex life sounds very unfullfilling. You know not what your doing, and she is so paranoid that she will probably have a hard time getting wet, relaxing enough for penetration, and not enjoy it in the least.

You need to lay your cards on the table. Say "Look I love you, but I am having some issues. We need to have some sort of compromise. We don't need to have sex, but we need to be open more. I want to please you, and I want to be pleased. I understand your fear of pregnancy , but with condoms and the pill its very unlikely and there is also very low chances as long as were smart during other activites. (Like don't think "hmmm I can rub my bare penis across her entrance and be okay, or cum on my hand and finger her.") But if she gave you a hand job and wasn't playing with herself, or gave you oral, the sperm isn't going to magically fly to her vagina. Your not going to get her pregnant with your tongue either.

You have spent 2 years with this woman. You are reaching your sexual prime and its understandable that you are a little more aggressive when your aroused. But there is only so much you can do before sex starts to be detrimental (lack of sex) to the relationship.

im just curious, why she is taking the pill? does she use it for other medical purposes? if not her words are conflicting her actions. and ducy beat me to it, you are both legal adults so go buy a hotel room.

Well you already got the information you needed to show her and help her understand what's happening.

Now there are a few issues. You have been together 2 years and haven't had any experience with oral or manual sex, yet you guys are talking about sex? You need to walk before you run. You also need to find a private place. How do you expect to ever do anything with parents around? Your 20 and 19 respectively. Go buy a hotel room for a romantic evening. Dont expect sex. But give it a chance to experiment.

She can go without ever having sex? She's never had it. But if that's her attitude you may want to consider leaving. High sex drive + low sex drive is a pretty lame relationship. Trust me I know. Love cannot overcome the physical, primal urge to procreate...its instinctual to have sex. You know the switch that's flipped when your aroused and a cool breeze happens to blow in. Suddenly all you can't think about is sex. Would you really be happy with having sex on your wedding night and then not getting it for years? Or only getting it when she wants a baby? Reality check...big time...and you needa be honest.

Does she have any prior issues? Was she once pregnant and had an abortion? Raped? I've heard of paranoid gf's, I know that I personally have a nagging fear everytime I have sex...well what if somehow the condom didn't work proper and she's pregnant. Women think that as well. They can't wait for their period. It can drive them nuts, especially virgins.

She needs to educate herself on the subject and you two need to explore each others bodies a helluva lot more than just "1 time going down on her and 2 hand jobs from her". Because you can't convince her. And she needs to understand that there are ways of having "safe" sex nowadays. Condoms plus bcp are effective at preventing pregnancy when used properly!

read the numbers our resident MD Brandye has posted
http://www.sexinfo101.com/forum/new-sex/20351-birth-control-failure-rate...

if her being on the pill, you using a condom, spermicide, and even paying attention to her cycle and having sex when she is not ovulating and she is still fearful for pregnancy then she is simply not ready for sex, at least not intercourse. you two can participate in manual and oral stimulation. other than that you will have to wait until she changes her mind.

Well you do what you have to do to pleasure yourself. I am catholic "on paper" as well. I understand people have different degrees in beliefs in religions or denominations. She will need to have a revelation that she wants to believe that it is possible for sex to be pleasurable. She enjoyed you licking her did she not? Remind her of that and when she is ready suggest that she touch herself alone or if she wants you take her hand and show her.

Her concerns about her body; most women have them. They did a study where it showed the same percentage of women that were self conscious about their bodies over all, men are concerned about their penis size. And both genders don't think there is anything to be worried about referring to the other gender. So keep telling her she is "fit" and beautiful, maybe kiss her waist.

You have a long way to go with her and need to make a choice on whether you will stay with her for the long hall. Personally I think if she is willing letting her sexuality grow will be a beautiful experience. Just take it step by step.

Assuming she doesn't masturbate, I can see where talking to her about sex, or about sex being pleasurable is like asking her to
[QUOTE=RedRoses;268159]beetlebabble on the planet of Yadidah[/QUOTE]
(can't help it, I liked that LOL)

There's this whole scientific thing about how women have to redo their hardwiring through masturbation in order to orgasm. That might play into this. Although we also need to remember that orgasm isn't required in order to enjoy, but my point is that if all you have is the intellectual teachings you grew up with, talking about pure unbridled pleasure can be a foreign language.

If you can get her to be open to fooling around more, you may be able to gradually get her there. She'll discover that things feel good and will gradually get beyond her hang ups. Someday in the future, you may be fooling around and she's so hot and hungry she doesn't give a damn about her teachings of propriety. I lost my virginity that way. It's important to know this will not be a short process and that the goal can NOT be actual sex, merely play and exploration. She needs to trust that you will not penetrate and that the moment she says stop you will, and will still love her. She needs that security before she can allow herself to take the risk.

However. It's also entirely plausible you end up deciding NOT to be that patient. It's important you know this does not make you an evil person, despite how some (possibly including her) may react to it at first. If this is your decision, it's for no other reason than the fact that you two are apparently not compatible. And there's nothing wrong with ending a state of incompatibility.

Here's the problem. She thinks sex is for procreaion, and therefore should only be used for procreation. The funny part about this belief, which is usually religously spurred, is that the catholic church allows the pullout method to prevent birth. Which means the church even accepts sex as a pleasureable event.

I'm just going to play the "worst case card" and say its pretty much going to be fairly unhappy. I know many who never wanted sex because they didn't want sex...not out of fear for pregnancy, they just had no interest in having sex, no sex drive. The only people I know that have the sex is only for pregnancy beliefs generally find sex unpleasurable, and a "necessity" instead of a "reacreational event". Sure one has been lucky enough to lose this mentality and has a wonderful sex life. But the rest are all pretty much against sex and hates it.

More than likely be prepared to become friends with Palmela Handerson because your going to wind up single.

how far does her beliefs go? does she believe in "living in sin" where a couple can't even live with each other until married? if that is the case then you could be shoveling concrete and best to just end it nicely.

Look up a thread called Body Worship. Some good exploration advice.

You have selected an INCOMPATIBLE girlfriend.

YES, you need to cool this relationship with the aim of dropping her from your list but you have to do this in such a way that SHE dumps YOU - if you want to be nice about it. If you DON'T, that's another technique entirely. So which is it?

Nice way = simply contradict everything she says and say no to everything she suggests substituting something you'd like that she would not. Make it unpleasant for her to be with you in a mildly annoying way.

Not Nice way = forget dates, forget to call, when you do talk to her pressure her to have sex, when she expresses her fear of pregnancy ask her if she has half a brain because she's already chemically pregnant because that's what the Pill does, accept booty-calls from other women (which you have carefully set up in advance with your buddies if you have to fake these calls) in her presence leaving her to go to them. Let her know that there is a price to pay for NOT having sex after a 2 year exclusive relationship.

Told you it wasn't nice - effective - but yeah, not nice. The thing is she will get the message that her hang-ups re: sex will do her harm which is something she does need to learn.

Stryder - "we've already changed ourselves too far to leave each other" - BS
You are wimping out big time and sacrificing your future, and hers, for your shared past, in effect betting 2 years against 50 and that's just plain STUPID. "Here boy, here boy, if you hang around I'll give you lap doggy treats -maybe."

Not only that, but both you and she are depriving your legitimate mates whom you haven't met yet of the next 50 years.

And if you are complaining about your sex life NOW, honey, your sex life is doomed from the start.

Life is too damn short to spend it with someone fundamentally incompatible and yes, SEX IS FUNDAMENTAL to any relationship. Face it, you're not with her because she can brench press 50 pounds (or whatever).

How have you changed? You guys basically have settled. You have few things in common, and you will do things just because the other likes it (sometimes).

If you "changed" then you would be listening to hip hop and she would be into science and such. But you obviously haven't.

And this relationship was a disaster from the start because contrary to popular belief, in the long run being the same is better than being opposites. Why? Because after 10 years of marriage or 4 years of dating it would be nice to be able to both do a hobby together. My mother is a romantic, my father is a realist. The only thing they really have in common is that they were both big into fitness. Here they are 21 years later and my mom tells me everyday that she loves him but hates that he isn't the flowers and chocolates guy. She wishes he would watch love stories and spend time with her on Sunday cuddling instead of yardwork and watching football. She wishes she could he was more like her.

Ya its interesting having an opposite mate. Your freaky and she's a shy innocent girl...its always fun to corrupt. Your Mr. Introverted and she's Miss Popular. Its a shock and it can be exhilirating. It helps you grow and learn more. I was always a shy guy and irresponsible. I lived with a girl who partied every other day, and used me for money. I grew and became a flirt and super outgoing, and very responsible with finances. But I've also date a girl who was very very kinky, and dark. I was not interested in torture and blood play, nor was I into necromancy and witch craft. But I learned how to dominate (hair pulling, spanking, dirty talking).

It sounds to me like you have grown and learned what you can from her. You know you want sex and she sees sex as a "job" and not a "hobby", your political views, and everything are different. Your common ground is small. How do you build a life, a huge wonderful home, a family, when you foundation is the size of a penny? Sure it will seem stable then one night there will be a storm, and the house will collapse and bury you alive.

We have given you the best advice your going to get my friend, your going to have to leave but then again your going to refuse because deep down we confirmed your greatest fear (ending it) and you want to fight back. Its human nature. You can ignore my opinion on leaving, but let me tell you. The last time EEK told me to walk away and I didn't listen, I was utterly wrecked and heartbroken from not heeding her advice.

Lol be irritated all you want stryder. And our location has absolutely nothing to do with what we can or cannot do. I have been in plenty of "opposite" relationships. I have also had my share of sexless relationships that all ended.

The only reasons that I try to "convince" you otherwise is because I know exactly what your doing. At the beginning you were crossing your fingers hoping you wouldn't have to end it (yet preparing to). Then suddenly someone else comes in and says there is no hope and tells you how to end it, and you want to automatically defend yourself.

We never said anything about not being able to keep your views. YOU said you guys had changed for each other. Going and doing something out of the norm once in a while isn't "changing"...its just doing something random. Change means you do something different and it usually is a consistent thing. Listening to country one day isn't change. Listening to country music everyday instead of your norm is changing.

I don't really know why you posted here if you throw away what you "don't want to hear".

But then again your right and do know better and we are simply mistaken. Your "prove your love" comment showed just how matured and prepared you are for sex. So its probably best it didn't happen. True love isn't about "proving" anything. True love is when you look deep into a persons eyes and can see your soul in them. True love is knowing that you wouldn't die for them, you would live for them and never leave them alone. True love is not having to prove your love because you both know its there. So date a "clone" of yourself isn't bad. And you can have differences but when your similarities are far and few between, your screwed. Or did you miss the foundation analogy?

I really tried hard to put everything nicely but your post was basically a middle finger to the people who DO know best. So when $h*t hits the fan, please don't come here asking what to do because you will disregard the advice you don't like even if its right.

You came here, asking what to do, we told you and you tell use that its just "opinions" and we don't know what were talking about and we aren't qualified to judge. Why the hell did you bother posting if you just shoot down everything you don't like?

I refuse any further help because we get a few of these a month. Someone is confused and doesn't know what to do because their bf or gf doesn't want to sleep with them. We tell them exactly what needs to be done. They tell us were wrong, or "not qualified", or they start changing their stories or decide to throw in "fun facts" in an attempt to disuade us from making any further grounds for dumping their significant other. So pardon me for being sick of the same old question with the same old "f you" reply. Then a few weeks later all kinds of sob stories from the same poster about how their relationship ended. Hell there are 3 posts similair to you that happened in the last 2 weeks. One poster went so far as to verbally attack me through pm's because she didn't like that I told her to break up with her bf who wouldn't sleep with her, and whom she was ready to cheat on.

I am aware your distance statement was not a literal statement. But you expected some sort of judgement call. You provided us with information so as far as the topic at hand, we are qualified to judge based off what you have told us.

Let's look at the facts.

You want sex
She doesn't
She has no interest in pleasureable sex, or intimacy
She believes sex is only for baby making
You guys have major differences
She is treating you like a lap dog. "If you pay for half my bcp there's something in it for you." What is that? She doesn't think sex is meant to be for fun. So what happens? You pay for bcp and she stops taking it to have a kid? Nice reward.

You can have your opinions. I don't care. But your "opinion" makes no sense. One second your ready to break up and the next your fighting us telling us were wrong and we can't make judgements because we don't know you. Then why ask us to begin with because if we said just suck it up and be unhappy and sexually frustrated we wouldn't be qualified to make that call since we don't know you. Am I right? Or am I missing something.

And as you get older and, hopefully, experience better relationships, you will learn that "proving your love" is foolish. Everyone has that idea for the first relationship or two, but then they realize that its an outdate, immature, and even controlling ideal.

As far as my counseling qualities. I am better qualified to give advice than most people twice my age. I don't have to accept your opinion. In fact most good counselors I have talked to generally tell you how it is. They look past the emotion and see the logic. Its not so much as I refuse to accept your opinions. Rather your not truly looking at the logic. If you did you wouldn't be sitting here telling us your staying.

EDIT:
Also I didn't notice the addition to a prior post. You had edited it while I was typing a reply. You may be shocked at our "quit" philosophy but you have a lot to learn about life. Rarely do first relationships work out. If there is a huge difference in sex drives then it generally ends, and if it doesn't end right away it ends through infidelity. If the two are stupid enough to carry on to marraige IT ENDS IN DIVORCE. And last time I checked, surveys showed that marriages failed due to infidelity and DIFFERENT SEX DRIVES!

Its not quitting to leave a relationship that has a .00001% chance of ending happily ever after. In fact the whole purpose of dating and relationships is to find a suitable mate...you haven't. Why fight and struggle and torture yourself and change your true self when its gonna still wind up being terrible?

Lol actually this entire thread was a waste of time. The same could have been accomplished if you had used the search function rather than assume your "Oh so alone on this subject"

I'm perfectly tolerant to others opinion. I'm more than happy to have a formal debate and more than happy to view the world through anothers eyes, but I've already viewed the world through your eyes. READ: I've been in opposites relationships and mismatched sex drives. And it doesn't workou. It really doesn't. And the day you come back and say everything worked out and your now in a perfectly happy and sexually compatible and satisfying sex life is the day I will take back all my "intolerant" comments. Give it time and I know I will be right. But then again I've only been giving people relationship advice for 7 years now and have yet to be wrong so perhaps its just a small ego that I have goin on
EDIT:

Last paragraph wasn't even worth the time.

Awesome posts DUCY..
even if the OP decides not to listen to such good advise
there will be others in the same situation who will ....

So this thread will never be a waste of time :D:p;)

Let me just add that I agree with Int's posts (all the way back on page 2 :)).
EDIT: And I do agree on comments made about love; there is no need for prove. But it also means that because you love, you unconditionally stand for your loved-one's welfare and joy. Also: there's nothing wrong with doing something to please your loved-one, as long as you stay true to yourself. Love may give you so much and change you in the most beautiful way, but it shouldn't be it's goal.

The thread in itself I don't consider a waste of time. Yet most of the last few posts on page 3 seem pointless to me... I certainly don't see the OP raising a middle finger or not listening, I see a polite thank you and a respectful way of conversation. The way I see it: the point of this forum is exactly that; sharing opinions. Advice is NEVER to be imposed on the other. Neither should the adviser EVER expect advice to be followed, especially not blindly.

You don't post for personal glory or to prove you're right. You do to share your thoughts and experiences, to provide arguments that form the basics of your opinion, to provide a different point of view, questions to consider, things that could help, to ask for the opinions/experiences/thoughts of others, to review your own opinions when you consider it fit. That choice remains the outcome of your own process of thinking and according to your own ways of living and development at the moment. This should be respected. There are no people that do know best. In the end all that's left is the integrity of your own mind.

Stryder - unlike yourself, I have been around the block and out in the world having relationships of various kinds with various men for a great many years so I do know what I'm talking about - it isn't "just opinion". After witnessing the destructive effects of incompatible relationships and avoiding getting into such myself - I can see the red warning flags from here!

What will happen is this - she will find a guy who rocks her world and it will NOT be you.

Sorry, buddy, but that's how this sort of situation plays out.

But if you want to go through this to the bitter end, so be it.

We can't prevent and yet another man from making this same terrible mistake. Perhaps you should review the postings from Married & Long Term and see how incompatible couples actually end up before making your final decision.

Just because someone asks for advice on a public forum, doesn't mean that by some law they have to accept every scrap of it that they receive. In fact, it's nearly impossible because probably more often than not they receive conflicting, or even contradictory, pieces of advice. So if he doesn't accept your piece of advice, don't belittle him for it, just move on. It's not a personal affront to you, it's a personal choice of his, so come down off your high horse.

Meanwhile back at the ranch. We have an OP who, for the moment anyway, is determined to nurture this relationship and make it work. All else being equal, I have to give him kudos for that conviction.

Well spoken, Int! :)

The only reason I won't give him kudos is because the relationship is doomed. I can garauntee they will end on a bad note. There is nothing wrong wiith fighting for something worth fighting for, but wehn you are fighting for a relationship where you both have to change, not because you have a bad habit but because you have virtually no common ground. When your sex drives ssem to be polar opposites and your views on sex are "liberal" as opposed to her religiously spurred "Only for procreation"

The OP said it himself "You are all right....I hope I can manage this without leaving her."

The OP isn't even sure of the relationship himself. He doesn't even know that he can do it. Then EEK comes in. Tells him that he's going to have to basically ruin the relationship (being difficult or a straight up jerk" he becomes gung ho on not giving up. We all know its common knowledge to fight against the unknown and scary. How many posters are talking about a failing relationship and when the verdict is to leave, they fight? Look at that girl katie (or whatever her name was) her bf wouldn't talk to her and she was going to cheat. We all told her to leave and she suddenly was going to fight us and talk to him and went so far as to PM me and tell me I didn't know $h*t. Of course she went so far as to tell me that she needed to cheat cuz her doctor told her too or else she would become so tight she would never have kids and that it is actually quiite common for women who have only had 1 man (the tightening thing). Here the OP is telling us were right then he is suddenly saying that we aren't qualified and that we don't really have a right to tell him what to do. He asked, we told, yet he's hellbent on not listening. Why bother asking if he's gonna reject it all?

You ask to gain other opinions and then you think about it. That's the purpose of it. No matter what the outcome is you've contributed to that.
[QUOTE=Ducy;268252]her doctor told her too or else she would become so tight she would never have kids and that it is actually quiite common for women who have only had 1 man (the tightening thing).[/QUOTE]
Is this a joke? Where does this come from? Every full grown women is perfectly capable of having a child. Only very few have a pelvic that's simply too small. And that has nothing to do with sexual experience, but it's bonestructure. I've never heard anything like this and unless there are references, I find it unbelievable. In fact; women are prescribed to do exercises to keep the pelvic floor tight and they gain more control over it.

I swear RR. This was her straight up reason. It went from just cheating, to her doctor said to, to her doctor said she could use a toy, but had to get used to other sizes, to she hated toys and if her boyfriend wasn't going to help keep her healthy she'd find someone else

Ducy - that's hilarious in a sad and pathetic sort of way.

Y'all seem to think gallantry is required to keep a relationship happy and vibrant. It seems you've forgotten that you shouldn't have to work that hard to keep a good strong compatible relationship going. A compatible relationship just deepens and becomes richer over time without any real effort at all. Yep - tis true! When you get the spouse that's right for you - life is easy.

Having to "make it work" is your first clue that this relationship's going to go nowhere.

The OP has a gf whose values are completely different from his and he's stuck trying to "make it work" because, after all, it is "only sex" and his needs aren't important because he loves her and you should be prepared to sacrifice everything to your beloved - aren't you? Up to a point and that point is where you cease to exist as a separate individual person and become the same in her mind as the battered sofa in the corner or the wallpaper.

You have all been led astray by someone making up a story (s)he wishes were true. The OP or questioner or whatever has no idea how the girl parts work. We do not become revirginated from lack of action.

Brandye the OP of the "ready to cheat" thread was the one I was referring to. This poster is dealing with a girlfriend who believes sex is strictly for procreation.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;268265]Y'all seem to think gallantry is required to keep a relationship happy and vibrant. It seems you've forgotten that you shouldn't have to work that hard to keep a good strong compatible relationship going. A compatible relationship just deepens and becomes richer over time without any real effort at all. Yep - tis true! When you get the spouse that's right for you - life is easy.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily gallantry, but with due respect EEK, I beg to differ that any relationship is easy 100% of the time or doesn't take a certain amount of work. LOVING the spouse that's right for you is easy. But if you forget that it does take some work sometimes....if you make it a habit to take a relationship for granted....it will wake up dead some morning.

Not working at it does NOT mean taking it for granted.

Think of all that you'll miss: power struggles, misunderstandings, yelling, fighting, confronting, who's right or wrong, the endless fussing and drama, having to 'change' or 'compromise'. Blech! What a waste of time!

Then think of what you'll gain: after 30 years of marriage, you two just catch each other's eye and you both start to laugh. Smiles. Cranking up the tunes and dancing, badly, together in the family room. The giggles when you fall off the bed during one of your crazy love-making sessions - it has happened.

Face it, just how much "work" is it to wrap your arms around him and say gently whilst hugging him "Love you." ?
You call that work?

I think you peeps simply don't know how to just have FUN in your everyday lives. It is as if y'all are set on dour instead of joyous.
From my perspective - if there's all work and no play in a relationship then that's not a relationship you should be in.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;268276]Not working at it does NOT mean taking it for granted.

Think of all that you'll miss: power struggles, misunderstandings, yelling, fighting, confronting, who's right or wrong, the endless fussing and drama, having to 'change' or 'compromise'. Blech! What a waste of time![/QUOTE]
Perhaps, but the bottom line is that, in a vast majority of relationships if not all, those things happen sometimes. I don't know of a relationship that never has any of that. Wait, yest I do. Dated for 4 1/2 years and now they're married. To other people.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;268276]Then think of what you'll gain: after 30 years of marriage, you two just catch each other's eye and you both start to laugh. Smiles. Cranking up the tunes and dancing, badly, together in the family room. The giggles when you fall off the bed during one of your crazy love-making sessions - it has happened.

Face it, just how much "work" is it to wrap your arms around him and say gently whilst hugging him "Love you." ?
You call that work?[/QUOTE]
Under the vast majority of circumstances, of course not. But let's be honest, in moments of particularly heated conflict (which for T and I are rare), finding the mood to do that can be a challenge. You've never heard of the concept, "I love you, and I always will, but for the moment I don't like you very much"?

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;268276]I think you peeps simply don't know how to just have FUN in your everyday lives. It is as if y'all are set on dour instead of joyous.
From my perspective - if there's all work and no play in a relationship then that's not a relationship you should be in.[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about all work and no play - for you're right about that. But again, IMO, no relationship is all play and no work, either. In all things, balance.

To everything there is an ending and I do agree that when love starts to feel like work without laughter, it is time to reevaluate your relationship. On the other hand; when you truly love someone, such bonds are precious, they are gifts to be cherished.

Though no experience-expert like EEK, I think it's possible. It is not entirely comparable to a relationship, but I've had a very dear friend who I hadn't fought with or had any misunderstanding within the 5 years I knew her. I only realized afterward that this was true. There had been plenty opportunities, since we used a lot of irony even in texts/mails, we had really serious conversations every once in a while and we used to tell eachother the secrets we were ashamed of. Apparently we were talking on the same vibe. And most of all; there was lots of laughter! The great misunderstanding would be the endings. It was an honor to have known her.

There is no shame in a misunderstanding every once in a while within a relationship. It can be refreshing, realizing you've been locked up in your own world. I think a relationship can help you grow to become more like the person you are deep down inside. It makes you realize where your own traps and rabbitholes are in which you tend to tumble and not get out. A fish doesn't know it swims in water till you pick it up! Those are exactly the times you need support and the honest answers from a loved-one. You will need loved-ones in bad times and moments of despair (it's when you learn who truly care for you). When you love someone most things tend to come effortlessly. And those things that do take effort, are not as hard. Other than that: laugh, dance and sing!

Heated conflict? Electric, gas or geothermal? A new meaning for "forced air"?

My problem with all of this is the underlying assumption that conflict is inevitable which assumption I know to be false if one doesn't seek to change one's beloved.

So what I see happening in most conflicted relationships is the one partner's inability to accept the other as he/she is; someone trying to "make over" their partner to fit into some idealized conception of what "my partner should be" which is little more than a childish "give me what I want or I'll hold my breath".

I shall give you an example: for many years, my husband's moodiness bothered me because I felt I was obligated to make him happy at all times. I took his moodiness personally. However, I wa the one being held hostage not by his moods but by my belief that I had to make him happy 24/7/365. He is an adult. He has his methods of dealing with issues and those methods will differ from mine. If I accept him as an adult who is as he is and stop trying to change him/his methods then I cease being upset which made him upset and around goes that merry-go-round. Now, if he's moody, well, that's his problem, not mine. I just carry on as normal.

I'm thinking y'all are being held hostage by the belief that conflict is inevitable.

EEK I agree with you, you don't need to fight to have a good relationship. I have a best friend I have NEVER fought with. Not a single fight. I once tried pulling my "Alpha Male Games" with her and she put me in my place right then and there. No fight just her saying. "Look this bs isn't gonna fly." That was the end of that.

You two are missing my point entirely. You're reading too much intensity into the kind of work relationships take.

[QUOTE=RedRoses;268290]There is no shame in a misunderstanding every once in a while within a relationship. It can be refreshing, realizing you've been locked up in your own world. I think a relationship can help you grow to become more like the person you are deep down inside. It makes you realize where your own traps and rabbitholes are in which you tend to tumble and not get out. [/QUOTE]

Ducy's experience is a great example of what I'm talking about. That, and, sometimes remembering not to take for granted, takes 'work'.

I'm not saying you can't fight for a good relationship. But so many people misinterpret the "love takes work" idea. It does take work. But when your having huge ear shattering yelling matches or every day you have to compromise just to be able to look at each other without fight, then there is an issue. You can't just expect love to solve all problems in a relationship, but you can't expect a relationships to be filled with constant disputes.

I have friends who fight everyday with their gf's they always talk smack on the couples who don't fight, saying that their relationship isn't as good as theirs since they never fight which means they are keeping things hidden and are afraid to speak their mind and that their love isn't real because (the people who must fight constantly) are showing their love by always working threw their problems, while the happy coule doesn't work. Just how much work do people think a relationship needs to be good? I have enough work 40 hrs a week bringing home a check. I don't need a 16 hour home job trying to keep my girlfriend from dumping me or my wife divorcing me.

Exactly, Ducy (btw your macho act makes me laugh) and Int - that's not WORK, dammit. Work is all the fighting, yelling, and appeasement none of which should be necessary if you two are a good and properly compatible match.

What do you mean my macho act?