school kid punished for hugging his gf - whats america coming too

[Newtolove]

what is the world coming too the school said it is to keep order well hm I find that hard to beleive not even a hand shake

http://www.yahoo.com/s/611170

[alban lusitanae]

the world is coming to what people make of it.
Start voting and acting differently

[sera300]

You have me pretty confused, Alban. Start voting? This is not a topic which is "up" for reform in an upcoming election. And unless Newtolove is a US citizen, there is no vote for him. The purpose of the parents intent was to draw attention to the school policy through gaining media coverage.

Act differently? Many do, this is a small isolated incident & it's up to the parent's of this particular school district to enact change through demanding reform. Many schools have instituted very harsh policies due the the violence present at middle school and high schools. Look at gang violence--look for the salient issue.

[alban lusitanae]

When you vote differently, anywhere in the world, people start getting new ideas and may take other people to vhange theirs. That's how you change the world.

On this case it's no different. If I was the parent I might take my kid away form the school, write a news report, anything. Just get people to think about things with half a brain. I'm growing tired of people feeling sorry for something and not acting on matters.

[sera300]

In a Democracy there is no voting "different" since the concepts are held by the nation not by the individual, there are three parties all with different with separate agendas. We vote in our own way, within each nation, not globally. What is good for the US may not be good for another country and visa verse.

Opting to put your kids in private schools are a parent's prerogatives. The reason for the mandate? Who knows. Generally when strict policy is enforced there have been cases behind it such as; gangs, sexual harassment, weapons, etc. Once the policy is set, it cannot be applied differently since past practice supercedes current policy. If there is an exception made for one the same has to be made for others'. A high five may be no real issue but allowing the contact how do you then prevent the gangs from carrying through with their inter-personal contact? I do not agree with the case it's self but many times there were other issues which led to this type of strict policy.

The attempt of the parents here is not to complain but to demonstrate how a specific policy applied can affect one type of individual; thus, the result of the report is to effectuate change.

Many do think differently and creating change in the US is a slow matter. Understanding the workings of the government and why it exists; is a good place for many to begin, layering effects are created through grassroots organizations and through interest groups.

[alban lusitanae]

USA's idea of democracy is wrong. And I'm not talking about Bush, but the system itself. Votes don't matter in a whole, and that's why you have the anecdotical "popular vote". In my country there isn't ANY other! The way the system is made, you can have less votes and be elected President. Yay for Democracy...

anyway

In a Democracy there is no voting "different" since the concepts are held by the nation not by the individual

that's the problem. The parties held limited concepts on which you have no saying. A Global Dictatorship is being organized in Europe as we speak. Try to find out why.

What is good for the US may not be good for another country and visa verse

Tell your rulers that, will you? thanks

Generally when strict policy is enforced there have been cases behind it such as; gangs, sexual harassment, weapons, etc.

Nope. It's because you can control the students better, that's all. And freedom of speech and action is then robbed. THAT causes frustration and violence.

The attempt of the parents here is not to complain but to demonstrate how a specific policy applied can affect one type of individual; thus, the result of the report is to effectuate change.

Which never happens because the institution, which is holding all the cards, will only get hit if they run out of customers. They don't read reports and they don't care about people complaining, otherwise they would have changed policies already.

Many do think differently and creating change in the US is a slow matter. Understanding the workings of the government and why it exists; is a good place for many to begin, layering effects are created through grassroots organizations and through interest groups.

Which means instead of trying to change the system, which would be the answer, one has to try and "be a good boy" and enter the system, and then try to beg for some change inside the system. Fine. Not good for me, though Thank anyway

[sera300]

Obviously you hate the US. Your personal preference. When one understands how the government works both in politics and administration there is a better option to change.

I doubt the US government is going to change the political system to suit you, me, or anyone else for that matter. It's the system which our country is founded upon.

When you have studied the issues presently before the education boards, it's not about "being a good boy". It's how to suit an entire population as a whole. Understanding the current issues of school violence, sexual harassment, etc has a trade off with expelling students which are problematic; thus, increasing the uneducated portion of the population widening class systems gaps. There is freedom of speech & freedom of actions but life does hold boundry's for all; there are rules in life and kids need to learn them the same as adults. One can not do as they wish all the time. I find it ironic how you can comment on such issues when you are not currently involved in them here in the US.

In the educational system many parents chose to remove their kids and place them in private schools, charter schools, or to home school. That IS a choice & the basis of the educators choices are performed on National standards and reports.

As far as the US rulers, this does not mean we all voted for him (them), and noticeably there is only a 28% approval rating. Many disagree with the current administration and the current tactics world-wide; however, when one has stood in the aftermath/shambles of 9-11, a definitive action was necessary. Many in the US do not approve of the administrations current scope.

It's ironic, I do try to understand other's ways of life and have an appreciation for it, weather I agree with it or not. I do try not to insult those unlike myself regardless of their religion or their political beliefs.

I am merely attempting to explain a system which I have formally studied for years to someone who has no appreciation nor willingness to wish to learn about it.

[demonbuttercup]

I agree that it's extreme to not allow hand shakes or High 5s, but this kid knew about the "no touching" rule and yet he still put his arm around his g/f.

Even if it has nothing to do w/ violence...maybe it'll be an end to things like
5th graders having sex in classroom

Or there was another thread where a girl who's 12 said she'd given HJs in class before.
Rules aren't strict until people start taking advantage of the mild/moderate rules they have in place.
Like at my work... some people have been taking advantage and leaving early/ coming in late...long lunches..etc.... so now they are wanting to enforce stricter rules about time/attendance. Now if those people had performed w/in the limits set...then it wouldn't have been a problem...it's when you try to go outside the limits...that they become more strict.

And yes we all have freedoms of speech and expression...but then when we are in school...at work...etc... we usually have to go by other's people's rules.. that's just life =\
Rocking the boat usually only makes things harder.
I one of the first people to say that I sure don't always conform to what society thinks as the "norm" but I also know how to express myself in a way that I don't also hinder my advancement in either school/work.... I know to pick my battles!

[rdan05]

Originally Posted by alban lusitanae

Yay for Democracy...

And freedom of speech and action is then robbed.

These freedoms you talk about, why don't you apply them to the 14 year old sister with condoms in her room. Why do you think there should be a mandatory sex age? Seems to me you pick interests which suit you. Maybe you had a sudden pang of morality. You sound like a politician.

Make a mockery out of the very Country I defend in the military, you have no shame. Yay, for Democracy we are a world power here in the USA.

The US ED system has issues but think about protesting and voting out your government officials for accepting US Financial Funding during the wildfires you had in Portugal a few years back.

We didn't have to over throw communism to have democracy--A. Cunhal in 1974. We have always had our basic values based on a Democratic nation.

[alban lusitanae]

Obviously you hate the US.

Huh? what? what gave you that idea?! Just because I criticize a country, or my own, I hate it?! I'm not allowed to criticize?

When one understands how the government works both in politics and administration there is a better option to change.

Read my post again. I said the answer is changing the system and not to act in the system. You chose to work in the system. That's ok. I don't do that, that's all.

When you have studied the issues presently before the education boards, it's not about "being a good boy". It's how to suit an entire population as a whole. Understanding the current issues of school violence, sexual harassment, etc has a trade off with expelling students which are problematic; thus, increasing the uneducated portion of the population widening class systems gaps. There is freedom of speech & freedom of actions but life does hold boundry's for all; there are rules in life and kids need to learn them the same as adults. One can not do as they wish all the time. I find it ironic how you can comment on such issues when you are not currently involved in them here in the US.

Oh I see. So if we aren't of the USA we can't criticize. Brilliant. Why don't you make this a completely american forum then? You seem to have a problem with people who have different views and opinions, because they live in different countries. I don't think that's very correct. And I'm sorry, "no touching" rules are supposed to be taking serious? I think you have to solve your violence issues some other way, not with this rules. They aren't going to solve anything.

however, when one has stood in the aftermath/shambles of 9-11, a definitive action was necessary.

What? what does 9/11 has to do with anything?! Now that's an excuse for every action?

It's ironic, I do try to understand other's ways of life and have an appreciation for it, weather I agree with it or not. I do try not to insult those unlike myself regardless of their religion or their political beliefs.

Not insulting anyone. Criticizing, and I can do it with everything, I'm free to do it. So are you and anyone here. You have criticized me and my views. Seeing me having a problem with that? Criticize me. Debate. That's why we're here for.

I am merely attempting to explain a system which I have formally studied for years to someone who has no appreciation nor willingness to wish to learn about it.

FYI, we have a discipline called Introduction to Politics in our junior high. I work on the TV network and I am a technical translator. I KNOW your system. I just don't like it, and yes, I don't appreciate it, but that does not mean I don't understand it. On the contrary. But again, not accepting that someone has a different view and attempting to classify every different opinion has an insult... well...

I agree that it's extreme to not allow hand shakes or High 5s, but this kid knew about the "no touching" rule and yet he still put his arm around his g/f.

Granted. Have no argument against that. Following question: what's wrong with his atittude? What sin has the kid commited?

Even if it has nothing to do w/ violence...maybe it'll be an end to things like 5th graders having sex in classroom

So... to end 5th grade classroom sex we should abolish touching? Is that it? That's a quantum leap in logic IMHO.

Or there was another thread where a girl who's 12 said she'd given HJs in class before. Rules aren't strict until people start taking advantage of the mild/moderate rules they have in place.

Do you honestly believe the no touching rules are going to stop kids from doing anything? It starts in the HOME, not in SCHOOL. If the kids are raised right, and not let alone to their own devices, something that Sera said in other posts and I totally agree, things might change.

Like at my work... some people have been taking advantage and leaving early/ coming in late...long lunches..etc.... so now they are wanting to enforce stricter rules about time/attendance. Now if those people had performed w/in the limits set...then it wouldn't have been a problem...it's when you try to go outside the limits...that they become more strict.

So, when there is a problem, impose ever increasing control and stricter rules. When are you telling the young girls to use Burkhas then? Don't you see? You are fast on the track to that. Doesn't take much.

And yes we all have freedoms of speech and expression...but then when we are in school...at work...etc... we usually have to go by other's people's rules.. that's just life =\

No we don't. If you think that way, you are not a citizen. You're followining rules blindly, without trying to change them. I'm sorry you have delegated you free thinking in someone else. I truly am...

Rocking the boat usually only makes things harder.

You know, you're starting to creep me out with this display of utter terror of change... fight for it. And I don't mean take arms in the fire mode sense...

I one of the first people to say that I sure don't always conform to what society thinks as the "norm" but I also know how to express myself in a way that I don't also hinder my advancement in either school/work.... I know to pick my battles!

You already lost the war, my friend. I'm sad you think that way, honestly. There are no battles to pick, because the battles you fight won't matter to change anything...

These freedoms you talk about, why don't you apply them to the 14 year old sister with condoms in her room.

5th grader with an arm on shoulder vs. 14 y.o. with dildo and condoms...yes, it's the same situation, I can see it now...

I did apply freedom of choice. If she was doing it to know her body, I said and quote "Here's my advice mate. Talk to her and tell her what you found. Tell her that you are not judging, and that she is right about knowing her body and discovering it and there is nothing wrong with it. Having real sex so soon is not.". I sustain that having sex so soon it's wrong. However, no touching rules is not going to stop 5th graders to have sex if they want to and that's a fact.

Why do you think there should be a mandatory sex age?

Because very young people should know their bodies well and understand the implications of sex for a long time before they do it with someone else. That includes 5th graders of course. But again, no touching ruels (the topic, remember that) will not change anything, it might actually do worse.

Seems to me you pick interests which suit you. Maybe you had a sudden pang of morality. You sound like a politician.

? Did I forget to reply to anyone? Did I forget to reply to any of your questions? Don't understand where this is coming from...

Make a mockery out of the very Country I defend in the military, you have no shame. Yay, for Democracy we are a world power here in the USA.

So, you're argumenting about my mockery (wherever you got that idea) by replying that you are a military officer and the USA is a world (military) power? Not a good argument.

The US ED system has issues but think about protesting and voting out your government officials for accepting US Financial Funding during the wildfires you had in Portugal a few years back.

I did. And also sent pictures to the authorities about aircraft dropping incendiary granades (you know how it works obviously) in the forests. They did nothing, because they are corrupt and take money from companies who want to:

- make turistic settlements
- buy wood at lower prices (burned wood)
- clear land for large areas of Eucalyptus globulus Labil, trees that grow much faster and higher profit.

You think I'm attacking the USA? Ok. Here goes: I think that the portuguese government is the most corrupt government in Europe, above Italy. See? I criticize my country as well. And I don't see it as betraying my motherland. Not doing or saying anything is.

I doubt the US government is going to change the political system to suit you, me, or anyone else for that matter. It's the system which our country is founded upon.

We didn't have to over throw communism to have democracy--A. Cunhal in 1974. We have always had our basic values based on a Democratic nation.

Actually, our democracy is going down fast, but that's another topic.

Rdan, you're military. I respect the military more than you could probably believe. However, you follow orders. The only laws that apply to you are the commanding hierarchy, and the rules of engagement. If these rules of engagement dictate that you have to place yourself into a bomber and go to other countries and bomb them, you are not supposed to think about the orders. You are suppose to follow them. Going against the orders everytime you received them, you couldn't be a good soldier. You would second guess every action you took and that would get you killed.

However, the system you don't see changing and don't believe will change would change if people took more action to change it and not follow the line of "this wil never change so might as well conform". I'm sure you are a fine soldier and love your country, but you have to understand that a system can always be better and no one is going to change the system from the inside. That's a fallacy. People on the system (meaning inside the society which has the system) must conform and not stir too much or, as Buttercup said, suffer the consequences. That's not democracy, when you have to make silent influences inside the system like a petty conspirator to try to change anything (which you don't), instead of having freedom to speak out without being afraid to be expelled, fired ou fired upon.