No place for us??

[Ell]

How would a nice dinner make their first time anymore special??? I just don't get that... It's the person that your with that can make it special, not where they take you to eat. I agree with EEK you & your girlfriend are the only people who can decide if you are ready... just make sure your safe about it.

[lnt1103]

Perhaps it's not special to you, EEK, and that's fine for you, but it IS special to some. It is to me, obviously it is to LFL, and apparently it is to the OP's girl, or she wouldn't be picky about whether or not she wants to do it in his car.

I agree with Brandye and LFL that they need to wait. The right time and place will present itself.

[EvilEvilKitten]

It is NOT the sex that is special - it is the BOND between you that is special. Stop confusing the two.

[lnt1103]

Well for me the sex doesn't happen unless the bond has happened first and deep. Each deepens the power of the other. Perhaps you call that confusion, and perhaps it is. I call it nature. Different strokes for different folks.

[EvilEvilKitten]

No it isn't nature - it is culture - that is what you have been taught from day one and that is what you choose to believe.

But that does not make it true.
If you study the research - women get huge benefits from polyandry - that's nature. But I don't see you promoting that because it goes against your culture.

Good girls don't because it would debase them but if you save this debasing thing for your hubby - ooh la la it becomes priceless! Does that really make any sense? One ritual and alacazam sex becomes this great gift instead of some horrid thing that girls should always say No to?

Study some history. Look at how society has evolved. In many ways the ancient Spartans were further along the sexual revolutionary path than we are today. The point is women are sexual powerhouses and men have for centuries sought to control women's sexuality to ensure that al the kids they raise are their own. To do this they have invented this whole "girls should be timid, need romance, need to feel a close emotional bond, etc. ethos" - doesn't mean you have to buy into it.

And it isn't just our culture - look at all of them.

[lnt1103]

I'll grant you that it's more about what I believe than 'nature', but if I gave a S*** about what they taught me 'good girls don't do', I wouldn't be living with T unmarried.

[EvilEvilKitten]

Then since you don't believe in "good girls" why do you repeat the doctrine?

[lnt1103]

The fact that I believe in two people dedicating themselves to each other has nothing to do with 'the good girl doctrine'. I'm not the 16 year old girl who's stuck on a fairy tale whose thick skull you're trying to get through to break a taboo. I've tried being the Booty Call. Wasn't my style, and not because 'good girls don't to it'. Because I needed more from him than he was able, or willing, to give. You've said yourself that sex is the expression of two people's desire for each other. He didn't want the real ME, he only wanted what I could do for his piece. There is much more to the real ME than that, and I deserve better. If you could have been a fly on the wall of some of our conversations, you'd see what I mean. He wouldn't admit it, but he really didn't give a shit and couldn't be bothered with certain so called 'inconveniences' that are part of my very being.

Perhaps that says more about the man than the practice. But I'm far from the only woman in the world whose opinion of a practice was doomed because of the man she tried it with.

[EvilEvilKitten]

You chose the wrong partner for the job and yes, men and women do that, but that does not mean the practice is wrong - it means you picked the wrong partner and some people are just louts. I have done it too but not for a while now, having developed my radar.

Which is the best reason to go out and play - radar development. Yes, it can be dangerous and you can get hurt - a misfortune of life really since I can't think of any activity where you can't get hurt.

And now, looking back, can you see how you yourself have changed by having been through the crucible? Now you stand up for yourself, know who and what you want, and have courage. *evil grin* Which I think is excellent!

[blatant_narcisism]

Originally Posted by lustforlove

women needing a reason to have sex and men needing a place.

I can't believe you'd say such a sexist thing.

I do not need a reason and I resent anybody saying I do.

Any woman who believes this statement is a disgrace to other women.