That is the question to be determined. Unfortunately, I do not know how rape is defined. Is it considered so after a woman says "no", defends herself, tries to get away, fights him off? Is it rape if she does not want the activity to occur yet lets it proceed for whatever her reasons? A prosecutor would have a field day arguing.
Did ASA rape her (by his definition of events)? Was he simply attempting to console and comfort her misguided though he was; or, did he willfully and knowingly take advantage of the situation and her and have his way with her with no regard?
What is the definition?
As for your girlfriend's reaction to all this, I urge you to be supportive and to listen (not trying to fix things) if and when she decides to talk more about this. Her concern about not telling you for fear of what you may do is very real. Keep in mind that fellas in your age range are ruled by testosterone and a lack of foresight.
One thing you can take from this is that the two of you probably need to learn more about each other and to develop more trust in one another and this comes from knowing how each of you is likely to react or behave regardless of the situation that comes up in the future.
As for "fighting" and taking a break from each other--what is that going to fix? Better me thinks to learn, now, how to work through problems, negotiate and find a common ground to disagreements, and, to talk to each other and work together for the common good in partnership. The two of you need to acquire some much needed relationship skills, yet are not alone in this. Most young people argue and take breaks because they know no other way of dealing with matters.
I recommend that you have her talk to a rape counselor none-the-less. Encourage her to talk to a professional.
I feel for your girlfriend, and for you as well. You do need to remember this happened to her, not you so you do need to be a supportive person.
I do find it odd that as a Freshman she is a RA, this is usually something an upper-classman undertakes. And in the future I suggest that she has another RA sit in on any conversations with a male. This is for her safety, and for theirs.
I don't believe that what happened would be prosecuted, especially as any and all evidence is now gone. It's going to be a he said she said and with her delay in contacting law enforcement, or attempting to stop this as it was happening will not look good for her. She didn't scream, pound on a wall, kick or scratch him (a mark on an attacker is a sign of a struggle), does she have any marks on her (signs of an attacker holding her down).
And now that she has had sex with you there is no way to tell if there was any internal injuries.
Counseling is a good idea. For both of you, this was not your fault.
{She broke it to me by saying "I had sex with ASA, I made a horrible mistake, and I regret this more than anything"
Now she says she needs space away from me, she says if we hadnt been fighting she wouldnt have felt so vulnerable and weak...and in turn this might not have happened to her.}
Get her to a counselor, you to a counselor together and/or seperately.
I was raped when I was 18 by my first fiance when I was ending our relationship. I said "no" "stop" "get off me" and gave him a few bruises. He thought that if he got me in bed then I wouldn't end our relationship. No I didn't press charges, today he is a partner in his dad's law firm in NYC. It was the last time I saw him, and the last time he saw me. It's been, wow, almost 30 years. It's still in my memory, and I am very conscience of where I am, who is around me, but I am not afraid. This was his doing, not mine, not his families, not my families or friends it was all HIM. He is the only one that I blame. Also remember it was only her that was the victim, if she needs space, give it to her. Be strong for HER.
[quote=FF5;227488]Shes a freshmen and RA at Clemens College in Suffield CT.
[COLOR=navy]This does not make since since a RA or such must be an upper class student...not a Freshman.[/COLOR]
We had been fighting and she was pretty depressed because I told her I needed a break for a little while. We still talked to eachother, still said I love you's, I just didnt go up and spend time with her as much as I did.
[COLOR=navy]If you are fighting before this[/COLOR] [COLOR=navy]"episode" why? Does not make sense.[/COLOR]
Since she's and RA, she has to talk to people in private if they need to, she told me one kid tried making out with her and she told him to stop, and get out of her room. instead of calling me right afterwards she said she felt dirty, numb, weak, and couldnt beleive what had happened. so she laid down in bed.
[COLOR=navy]She should never close a door with a male student. This is number one is the handbook especially on college campuses. And again a RA as a Freshman????[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000080]So this guy kissed her end of story with him? Correct?[/COLOR]
A kid named ASA knocked on her door, and said he needed to talk to her so she let him in.
She said she explained to ASA what had happened and she broke down to him how much she loves me and misses me.
[COLOR=navy]Bad move venting personal feelings to a subordinate student. Why not talk to her female friend and tell him she would chat later? Why confide in a man who is your obligation? Sounds rather odd to me.[/COLOR]
This all happened to her last saturday.
[COLOR=navy]Okay, so if she is supposed to guide those under her bad move to do nothing.[/COLOR]
After all this she says he got into her bed and held her, and everything went from there.
She said she was too vulnerable and "afraid" to say anything, she just layed there and let him have sex with her. He used a condom, and she said she was Dry, and she just zoned out after a while and acted like this wasnt happening. She said she didnt want to have sex with him.
[COLOR=navy]So, she had sex or was raped? Meaning forced sex or a bad choice due to another reason?[/COLOR]
The next day we went her friends wedding together, and had a great time, nothing seemed wrong. when we got back, she had the nerve to have sex with me!
[COLOR=navy]Odd. Very odd. How was the sex? Was she distant or into it?[/COLOR]
I told her to be careful about letting random people in her room to talk, and leave the door open or tell someone cause I didnt want to see her get raped. After I said that I could see it in her face that something had happened, but I made myself beleive that nothing happened...
[COLOR=navy]However, she did not trust you to tell you right after it happened? WHY? Despite the arguments, the first I would turn to would be one I loved. Distant in relationship or not...women want safety to confide. Her behavior here is odd. [/COLOR]
She told me two days ago what had happened, keep in mind this is ONE WEEK afterwards.
[COLOR=navy]So, this goes back to my above statement. The first person I would tell is one of the three; the police, a ER nurse, or the man I loved. Much would be based on my degree to think correctly & logically.[/COLOR]
She broke it to me by saying "I had sex with ASA, I made a horrible mistake, and I regret this more than anything"
[COLOR=navy]So she is saying he did not rape her, it was the other guy? Or was there a rape or just a bad choice?[/COLOR]
Now she says she needs space away from me, she says if we hadnt been fighting she wouldnt have felt so vulnerable and weak...and in turn this might not have happened to her.
[COLOR=navy]Blaming YOU? Sorry, I do not buy this since she is turning the tables.[/COLOR]
I know she had a choice, she wasnt forcefully raped...[COLOR=navy]According to whom? Your inference? Or her admittance? Why do I ask? If she felt bad, allowed him to go ahead without saying NO there is no rape, just poor judgement.[/COLOR]
What I don't know is if she honestly believes she was taken advantage of, or shes making herself believe this because she feels guilty? [COLOR=navy]Depends on if she was forced to have sex against her will.[/COLOR]
She called her campus safety, and the police on saturday night, by the way.
[COLOR=navy]And told them what? If not a rape, she is using her poor judgement and prosecuting a innocent man? And trust me I am an advocate for rape victims...this is not taken lightly by anyone much less me.[/COLOR]
We have been together for two years, and had plans of getting married. I was planning on dropping the question very soon too.
[COLOR=navy]Did she know? Is this her way out of a marriage? Why propose to a Freshman? Too soon.[/COLOR]
Shes always been there for me, and Ive always been there for her. I dont know who to talk to right now because I dont want to burden someone with our problems, and I definetly dont want to tell anyone at the firehouse or in town in fear that this will be spread about.
[COLOR=navy]Tell no one...no matter what right now. Never tell those who are in your community until YOU & SHE have some facts straight. Furthermore, if you need speak to the hot-line as an anonymous person not to anyone who knows you. It's not your buisness to spread ANY of this.[/COLOR]
My brother helped me out quite a bit, and ive been spending time with him...
Ive been going to the gym, getting in shape for Vermont State Police exam, and because some of the Connecticut Depts. that are hiring.
[COLOR=navy]Okay but no guarantee of a job for you..until you have a definitive future together why move near her?[/COLOR]
But I dont think I can do this, I dont think I can stay with her because I have these doubts. and I definetly dont want to see this kid get convicted of any sexual assault because she is making herself beleive he took advantage of her.
[COLOR=navy]YOU do not know the facts. Stay out of it. Listen to her...the cops there are smarter than you are. If you must, call the PD handling it and tell them what she told you only if he is going for a conviction. Talk some common sense into her. This is up to the police to figure...and there has to be evidence not "heresay". Men do not get convicted for an alleged sex night unless he did force her and there must be a full story and hopefully good evidence. Keep queit for now and get the facts.[/COLOR]
I asked her why she held this from me, and she said she was afraid I would do something to the kid and ruin my future in law enforcement. she said she was afraid I wouldnt forgive her and I would leave her.[/quote]
[COLOR=navy]This is B.S. since the first thing YOU have to do as a future officer is demonstrate personal restraint. ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000080]I honestly feel she is manipulating you...I do not say this especially when it comes to sexual assault. However, based on what you said--it sounds as if she is attempting to get your attention to protect her & save her. WOMEN will tell their spouses or those men they do love they were assaulted or raped. It sounds as if she went out & fooled around without wanting to tell you. Moreover, women do not want to be touched after a rape--NO sex. She would have made up some excuse to you to skip you touching her. As far as being a RA; it sounds like an excuse to let the guys walk in at will...and she does not wish you to know. Often women feel so disgusting they break out in tears especially at a wedding...if not at this time, during sex with the one you love.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000080]Before any judgement is passed...YOU need to talk to her and find the truthfulness here. Do not be surprised if she was raped or was not and used this as a way to get you to fall at her feet. As I said; I am a advocate against rape; this is not adding up unless you are not telling us something or she skipped telling you something. The actions do not equal the scenario.[/COLOR]
Well said Sera. 2 + 2 = 4 and none of what the OP says = 4.
RA's have special training courses, usually the year before they are a RA. At least that's the way it was in my dorm. And the guys went to a male RA the girls to a female RA. And the first mention of rape, off the RA and the reporting student went to Campus Police. What did these guys have to talk "privately" about???
And the statement that she had had sex with someone, "I had sex with ASA, I made a horrible mistake, and I regret this more than anything" sounds like a apology not a accusation of rape. She made a mistake, having sex with this person, don't allow her to make a second one by making a false accusation.
And don't allow yourself to make one by confronting this guy, saying his name, even in counseling don't use real names.
[quote=smallestoftheclan;227521]Well said Sera. 2 + 2 = 4 and none of what the OP says = 4.
RA's have special training courses, usually the year before they are a RA. At least that's the way it was in my dorm. And the guys went to a male RA the girls to a female RA. And the first mention of rape, off the RA and the reporting student went to Campus Police. What did these guys have to talk "privately" about???
And the statement that she had had sex with someone, "I had sex with ASA, I made a horrible mistake, and I regret this more than anything" sounds like a apology not a accusation of rape. She made a mistake, having sex with this person, don't allow her to make a second one by making a false accusation.
And don't allow yourself to make one by confronting this guy, saying his name, even in counseling don't use real names.[/quote]
RA's must be Juniors or Seniors with a good proven track record at their college. This must be demonstrated a high ethical value prior to embarking into such position since a RA is responsible for the actions of those they watch over and supervise. And yes, Men cover the men while women cover women's dorms; therefore, SOC is most correct. Something is not adding up well. However, since "rape" or "sexual assault" is never dismissed and the victim is to be taken at all truthfulness and I would not disbelieve her since there are always exceptions to every rule, meaning not everyone acts/behaves the same in a predictable pattern. If you have been with your g/f for 2 years you owe her the benefit of the doubt until you take any action or reaction until YOU have all the facts...yet something seems oddly "fishy" to me on face value in your post.
That is the question to be determined. Unfortunately, I do not know how rape is defined. Is it considered so after a woman says "no", defends herself, tries to get away, fights him off? Is it rape if she does not want the activity to occur yet lets it proceed for whatever her reasons? A prosecutor would have a field day arguing.
Did ASA rape her (by his definition of events)? Was he simply attempting to console and comfort her misguided though he was; or, did he willfully and knowingly take advantage of the situation and her and have his way with her with no regard?
What is the definition?
As for your girlfriend's reaction to all this, I urge you to be supportive and to listen (not trying to fix things) if and when she decides to talk more about this. Her concern about not telling you for fear of what you may do is very real. Keep in mind that fellas in your age range are ruled by testosterone and a lack of foresight.
One thing you can take from this is that the two of you probably need to learn more about each other and to develop more trust in one another and this comes from knowing how each of you is likely to react or behave regardless of the situation that comes up in the future.
As for "fighting" and taking a break from each other--what is that going to fix? Better me thinks to learn, now, how to work through problems, negotiate and find a common ground to disagreements, and, to talk to each other and work together for the common good in partnership. The two of you need to acquire some much needed relationship skills, yet are not alone in this. Most young people argue and take breaks because they know no other way of dealing with matters.
I recommend that you have her talk to a rape counselor none-the-less. Encourage her to talk to a professional.
I feel for your girlfriend, and for you as well. You do need to remember this happened to her, not you so you do need to be a supportive person.
I do find it odd that as a Freshman she is a RA, this is usually something an upper-classman undertakes. And in the future I suggest that she has another RA sit in on any conversations with a male. This is for her safety, and for theirs.
I don't believe that what happened would be prosecuted, especially as any and all evidence is now gone. It's going to be a he said she said and with her delay in contacting law enforcement, or attempting to stop this as it was happening will not look good for her. She didn't scream, pound on a wall, kick or scratch him (a mark on an attacker is a sign of a struggle), does she have any marks on her (signs of an attacker holding her down).
And now that she has had sex with you there is no way to tell if there was any internal injuries.
Counseling is a good idea. For both of you, this was not your fault.
{She broke it to me by saying "I had sex with ASA, I made a horrible mistake, and I regret this more than anything"
Now she says she needs space away from me, she says if we hadnt been fighting she wouldnt have felt so vulnerable and weak...and in turn this might not have happened to her.}
Get her to a counselor, you to a counselor together and/or seperately.
I was raped when I was 18 by my first fiance when I was ending our relationship. I said "no" "stop" "get off me" and gave him a few bruises. He thought that if he got me in bed then I wouldn't end our relationship. No I didn't press charges, today he is a partner in his dad's law firm in NYC. It was the last time I saw him, and the last time he saw me. It's been, wow, almost 30 years. It's still in my memory, and I am very conscience of where I am, who is around me, but I am not afraid. This was his doing, not mine, not his families, not my families or friends it was all HIM. He is the only one that I blame. Also remember it was only her that was the victim, if she needs space, give it to her. Be strong for HER.
[quote=FF5;227488]Shes a freshmen and RA at Clemens College in Suffield CT.
[COLOR=navy]This does not make since since a RA or such must be an upper class student...not a Freshman.[/COLOR]
We had been fighting and she was pretty depressed because I told her I needed a break for a little while. We still talked to eachother, still said I love you's, I just didnt go up and spend time with her as much as I did.
[COLOR=navy]If you are fighting before this[/COLOR] [COLOR=navy]"episode" why? Does not make sense.[/COLOR]
Since she's and RA, she has to talk to people in private if they need to, she told me one kid tried making out with her and she told him to stop, and get out of her room. instead of calling me right afterwards she said she felt dirty, numb, weak, and couldnt beleive what had happened. so she laid down in bed.
[COLOR=navy]She should never close a door with a male student. This is number one is the handbook especially on college campuses. And again a RA as a Freshman????[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000080]So this guy kissed her end of story with him? Correct?[/COLOR]
A kid named ASA knocked on her door, and said he needed to talk to her so she let him in.
She said she explained to ASA what had happened and she broke down to him how much she loves me and misses me.
[COLOR=navy]Bad move venting personal feelings to a subordinate student. Why not talk to her female friend and tell him she would chat later? Why confide in a man who is your obligation? Sounds rather odd to me.[/COLOR]
This all happened to her last saturday.
[COLOR=navy]Okay, so if she is supposed to guide those under her bad move to do nothing.[/COLOR]
After all this she says he got into her bed and held her, and everything went from there.
She said she was too vulnerable and "afraid" to say anything, she just layed there and let him have sex with her. He used a condom, and she said she was Dry, and she just zoned out after a while and acted like this wasnt happening. She said she didnt want to have sex with him.
[COLOR=navy]So, she had sex or was raped? Meaning forced sex or a bad choice due to another reason?[/COLOR]
The next day we went her friends wedding together, and had a great time, nothing seemed wrong. when we got back, she had the nerve to have sex with me!
[COLOR=navy]Odd. Very odd. How was the sex? Was she distant or into it?[/COLOR]
I told her to be careful about letting random people in her room to talk, and leave the door open or tell someone cause I didnt want to see her get raped. After I said that I could see it in her face that something had happened, but I made myself beleive that nothing happened...
[COLOR=navy]However, she did not trust you to tell you right after it happened? WHY? Despite the arguments, the first I would turn to would be one I loved. Distant in relationship or not...women want safety to confide. Her behavior here is odd. [/COLOR]
She told me two days ago what had happened, keep in mind this is ONE WEEK afterwards.
[COLOR=navy]So, this goes back to my above statement. The first person I would tell is one of the three; the police, a ER nurse, or the man I loved. Much would be based on my degree to think correctly & logically.[/COLOR]
She broke it to me by saying "I had sex with ASA, I made a horrible mistake, and I regret this more than anything"
[COLOR=navy]So she is saying he did not rape her, it was the other guy? Or was there a rape or just a bad choice?[/COLOR]
Now she says she needs space away from me, she says if we hadnt been fighting she wouldnt have felt so vulnerable and weak...and in turn this might not have happened to her.
[COLOR=navy]Blaming YOU? Sorry, I do not buy this since she is turning the tables.[/COLOR]
I know she had a choice, she wasnt forcefully raped...[COLOR=navy]According to whom? Your inference? Or her admittance? Why do I ask? If she felt bad, allowed him to go ahead without saying NO there is no rape, just poor judgement.[/COLOR]
What I don't know is if she honestly believes she was taken advantage of, or shes making herself believe this because she feels guilty? [COLOR=navy]Depends on if she was forced to have sex against her will.[/COLOR]
She called her campus safety, and the police on saturday night, by the way.
[COLOR=navy]And told them what? If not a rape, she is using her poor judgement and prosecuting a innocent man? And trust me I am an advocate for rape victims...this is not taken lightly by anyone much less me.[/COLOR]
We have been together for two years, and had plans of getting married. I was planning on dropping the question very soon too.
[COLOR=navy]Did she know? Is this her way out of a marriage? Why propose to a Freshman? Too soon.[/COLOR]
Shes always been there for me, and Ive always been there for her. I dont know who to talk to right now because I dont want to burden someone with our problems, and I definetly dont want to tell anyone at the firehouse or in town in fear that this will be spread about.
[COLOR=navy]Tell no one...no matter what right now. Never tell those who are in your community until YOU & SHE have some facts straight. Furthermore, if you need speak to the hot-line as an anonymous person not to anyone who knows you. It's not your buisness to spread ANY of this.[/COLOR]
My brother helped me out quite a bit, and ive been spending time with him...
Ive been going to the gym, getting in shape for Vermont State Police exam, and because some of the Connecticut Depts. that are hiring.
[COLOR=navy]Okay but no guarantee of a job for you..until you have a definitive future together why move near her?[/COLOR]
But I dont think I can do this, I dont think I can stay with her because I have these doubts. and I definetly dont want to see this kid get convicted of any sexual assault because she is making herself beleive he took advantage of her.
[COLOR=navy]YOU do not know the facts. Stay out of it. Listen to her...the cops there are smarter than you are. If you must, call the PD handling it and tell them what she told you only if he is going for a conviction. Talk some common sense into her. This is up to the police to figure...and there has to be evidence not "heresay". Men do not get convicted for an alleged sex night unless he did force her and there must be a full story and hopefully good evidence. Keep queit for now and get the facts.[/COLOR]
I asked her why she held this from me, and she said she was afraid I would do something to the kid and ruin my future in law enforcement. she said she was afraid I wouldnt forgive her and I would leave her.[/quote]
[COLOR=navy]This is B.S. since the first thing YOU have to do as a future officer is demonstrate personal restraint. ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000080]I honestly feel she is manipulating you...I do not say this especially when it comes to sexual assault. However, based on what you said--it sounds as if she is attempting to get your attention to protect her & save her. WOMEN will tell their spouses or those men they do love they were assaulted or raped. It sounds as if she went out & fooled around without wanting to tell you. Moreover, women do not want to be touched after a rape--NO sex. She would have made up some excuse to you to skip you touching her. As far as being a RA; it sounds like an excuse to let the guys walk in at will...and she does not wish you to know. Often women feel so disgusting they break out in tears especially at a wedding...if not at this time, during sex with the one you love.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000080]Before any judgement is passed...YOU need to talk to her and find the truthfulness here. Do not be surprised if she was raped or was not and used this as a way to get you to fall at her feet. As I said; I am a advocate against rape; this is not adding up unless you are not telling us something or she skipped telling you something. The actions do not equal the scenario.[/COLOR]
Well said Sera. 2 + 2 = 4 and none of what the OP says = 4.
RA's have special training courses, usually the year before they are a RA. At least that's the way it was in my dorm. And the guys went to a male RA the girls to a female RA. And the first mention of rape, off the RA and the reporting student went to Campus Police. What did these guys have to talk "privately" about???
And the statement that she had had sex with someone, "I had sex with ASA, I made a horrible mistake, and I regret this more than anything" sounds like a apology not a accusation of rape. She made a mistake, having sex with this person, don't allow her to make a second one by making a false accusation.
And don't allow yourself to make one by confronting this guy, saying his name, even in counseling don't use real names.
[quote=smallestoftheclan;227521]Well said Sera. 2 + 2 = 4 and none of what the OP says = 4.
RA's have special training courses, usually the year before they are a RA. At least that's the way it was in my dorm. And the guys went to a male RA the girls to a female RA. And the first mention of rape, off the RA and the reporting student went to Campus Police. What did these guys have to talk "privately" about???
And the statement that she had had sex with someone, "I had sex with ASA, I made a horrible mistake, and I regret this more than anything" sounds like a apology not a accusation of rape. She made a mistake, having sex with this person, don't allow her to make a second one by making a false accusation.
And don't allow yourself to make one by confronting this guy, saying his name, even in counseling don't use real names.[/quote]
RA's must be Juniors or Seniors with a good proven track record at their college. This must be demonstrated a high ethical value prior to embarking into such position since a RA is responsible for the actions of those they watch over and supervise. And yes, Men cover the men while women cover women's dorms; therefore, SOC is most correct. Something is not adding up well. However, since "rape" or "sexual assault" is never dismissed and the victim is to be taken at all truthfulness and I would not disbelieve her since there are always exceptions to every rule, meaning not everyone acts/behaves the same in a predictable pattern. If you have been with your g/f for 2 years you owe her the benefit of the doubt until you take any action or reaction until YOU have all the facts...yet something seems oddly "fishy" to me on face value in your post.