Two submissives...no sex

[Granath]

My wife and I have been married for over 15 years. We love each other and we really don't have many problems. We're blessed with two great kids, a 10 year old and a new 8 week old. I work, she stays home and takes care of the family. I always say her job is more important than mine. I love this woman dearly and we have a great thing.

Except in the bedroom.

Now I know that only 8 weeks after birth, she's probably not yet ready to have sex. That's fine with me. But in truth our sex life has been pretty stagnant for years and I think I know why.

When we met, I was by far the more aggressive one. She's submissive by nature and I take the lead in most things. But I've discovered over the years that in the bedroom I like to be the submissive one. She's submissive too. So we end up kind of hoping the other instigates sex. Neither one of us do, so we're not very romantic at all. In truth, there have been times that we've gone a month without doing it. I'd prefer a couple of times a week and I think she would to. It's just neither of us takes the lead. I've tried talking with this about her, but she tends to grow quiet or change the subject.

So, question #1:

1. What are some ways that two submissives can begin to instigate sex and not sit around hoping that the other takes the lead?

For example, I thought of buying a small decorative item. If I instigate sex one night, then I can put it on her dresser to let her know it's "her turn" to start things going next. Once she instigates things, she can put it back on my dresser. I haven't tried it yet and was wondering if someone had some good advice beyond that idea.

Should I even show her this post?

---

I found being submissive liberating in a way since I have to be strong and decisive in virtually every other area of my life. In fact, we've gone so far as to get her a strap-on because, well, I really enjoy it the two times I've managed to get her to use it. I wouldn't want anyone else, nor do I desire a guy or anything like that. I want her (and only her) and when I'm submissive, I get the vibe that she really wants me.

Question #2:

2. In line with the above issue, knowing that she's not all that comfortable being dominant, how can I get her to use the strap-on a bit more?

I'm not talking about even once a week. Once a month would be fine. Once every couple of months would be fine. I don't even mind taking turns being dominant and submissive. The last time she used it, I could tell she really got into it. But that was over a year ago. If I can get her to talk about it, she says she thinks it might hurt me or something. I don't think there are any religious hang-ups, since we have a number of toys we use on her occasionally.

Help? Advice?

[Brandye]

The answer is not in the bedroom; it is in a counselor's office. You have each accumulated much baggage during the years of declining sex - each likely hoping for more. Discussion between the two of you may be helpful but it may also intensify the desire that the other take the more aggressive role. There are many techniques that a good therapist can offer. You are better off paying a few quid than groping around on your own.

And, eight weeks is plenty of recovery if there were no unusual circumstances. Most women are cleared to go after the six week check; many start earlier without clearance.

[EvilEvilKitten]

The problem is in HER SILENCE - there is something fundamental going on here and you are missing it.

Counseling, if you can find one smarter than both of you, will help get you two talking.

Yes, being submissive is liberating because "it isn't your fault or your responsibility" but it does indicate an issue with sex for pleasure in and of itself.

Stop gliding about on the surface and dig deeper - and stop letting her off the hook by being silent when you try to discuss these things.

[spaced]

Obviously there is indeed a lack of communication going on, so that's the first thing you'll need to work on and quite possibly the hardest. Once you two are *fully* aware of your wants and needs from each other it becomes much easier to ask for it, and to give it.

For two submissives, you don't have many options aside from both of you becoming switchy and swapping roles like you suggested (creative idea, that object-on-the-dresser bit!). Another option is to get someone to top you both. I know of several sub-couples that bring in a third from time to time, but these people are dedicated lifestylers and not your "mom and dad and two kids" that you have going on, so bringing in a third is probably right out. Adding someone else to the mix is at BEST an option for many many moons from now after you've solved your communication troubles. And even then...... Yeah, forget I mentioned it.

Nowhere is it written that the dominant MUST be the one to initiate sex. There is nothing dominant or submissive about jumping in your lover's lap and kissing all the best places, only so she can bend you over and spank you for interrupting her (or whatever...). As far as getting her to work you over with that strapon, try crawling up to her on all fours with you holding it in your mouth, and having the cutest most pathetic puppydog eyes you can muster. Throw in a wimper for good measure. "Be creative", that's really the best advice I can give (even though that last bit I said was as cliche as it gets in the BSDM world).

"Should I even show her this post?" Since you two are obviously open minded enough, that might not be such a bad idea. This would tie in to the whole communication thing nicely. Bonus points to you if you convince her to sign up and reply, we'd love to read it!

Counselors will pretty much only help to identify the problem(s) and they might be able to suggest ways to fix them. Keep that in mind. Like Brandye and EEK said, if you can find a competent one then it's probably worth a shot. I've never met a good one much less a competent one, so I can't really say for sure.

EEK, if you can, would you be kind enough to link me some info about submissives having issues with having sex for the pleasure of it? Preferably actual research and not some article, I'm genuinely interested in the topic. PM is fine.

[EvilEvilKitten]

Okay. I'll try to find all of that literature again.

[EvilEvilKitten]

First, see if you can get any of these from your library:

References
Gloria G. Brame, William D. Brame, and Jon Jacobs. Different Loving: An Exploration of the World of Sexual Dominance and Submission. New York: Villard Books, 1993. ISBN 0-679-40873-8.
Jack Rinella, The Complete Slave: Creating and Living an Erotic Dominant/Submissive Lifestyle. Daedelus Publishing Co, 2002. ISBN 1-881943-13-5.
Jack Rinella, The Master's Manual: A Handbook of Erotic Dominance. Daedelus Publishing Co., 1994. ISBN 1-881943-03-8.
Peter Masters, The Control Book. Rinella Editorial Services, 2007. ISBN 0-940267-09-8.
Peter Masters, This Curious Human Phenomenon: An Exploration of Some Uncommonly Explored Aspects of BDSM. The Nazca Plains Corporation, 2008. ISBN 1-934625-68-X.
Guy Baldwin, SlaveCraft: Roadmaps for Erotic Servitude — Principles, Skills and Tools. Daedelus Publishing Co, 2002. ISBN 1-881943-14-3.
Claudia Varrin, Art of Sensual Female Dominance: A Guide for Women. Birch Lane Press, 2000. ISBN 0-8065-2089-2.
Claudia Varrin, Erotic Surrender: The Sensual Joys of Female Submission. Citadel Press, 2003. ISBN 0-8065-2400-6.
Pat Califia, Sensuous Magic. New York, Masquerade Books, 1993. ISBN 1-56333-131-4.
Philip Miller and Molly Devon, Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism. Mystic Rose Books, 1995. ISBN 0-9645960-0-8.
Saez, Fernando y Viñuales, Olga, Armarios de Cuero, Ediciones Bellaterra, 2007. ISBN 84-7290-345-6
Claudia Varrin, Female Dominance: Rituals and Practices. Citadel Press, 2004. ISBN 0-8065-2659-9.
Claudia Varrin, The Female Dominant: Games She Plays. Citadel Press, 2005. ISBN 0-8065-2669-6.
Claudia Varrin, Female Submission: The Journals of Madelaine. Citadel Press, 2006. ISBN 0-8065-2707-2.

[spaced]

Thank you! I very much appreciate it! This very topic came up at the last munch I attended and people's thoughts were "mixed" at best. It's stuck with me since.

[EvilEvilKitten]

You're welcome.