This is an interesting predicament. The girl wants to make a connection with you by conversing, first and foremost; you on the other hand want to make a connection by having sex first and foremost before attempting to begin a relationship. Where will you meet each other and where will you meet each other, meaning; first, how close do the two of you live to each other; second, what are you going to settle upon as common ground between each of your positions on the matter?

Do I understand correctly, that you want to engage in sex before getting to know this person and invest of your time and energy in a relationship? I am of the school of thought that believes the two of you will have more meaningful sex the more meaningful the relationship.** Think about that. While you are thinking, consider that women place more meaning into sex from an emotional perspective than do men--which is typical of your response.

I have stated more than once that "dating" is process designed to fail--except with the last person in line. Dating is all about finding Mr./Ms. Right and if you want to find that "one in a million" person, you will have to date a million people! This means that all the people you date will at some point in time fall by the wayside. This means being disappointed and feeling bad for a time. It's part of the process and the sooner you understand this the better your relationships will be and this includes the romantic aspects.

** Sex for sex sake is OK, yet you should be more concerned about engaging in sex as the outward expression of the love each of you has for the other. There is a distinct difference that I do not think you yet understand. Orgasms are much more pleasurable and satisfying when accompanied by "chemistry" {pheromones) and "sparks" {emotions) between your two bodies.

> I do not want to engage in relationships before having sex that may be a turn off for me.

Using your plan, how many times do you predict having sex before deciding whether or not to enter into a relationship or not? Once? Twice? Thrice? Or, a bunch more? Are you aware that great sex happens with practice in addition to the chemistry? "Sex" {intercourse) is plugging P into V, and stroking back and forth for a time. Making love involves establishing an emotional connection that only comes with time and attention given to each other. Both require time to make any required physical adjustments as well as developing methods and techniques that work for both of you. Thus my question, above.

>Any advice as to what topics of attention should I possible bring?

I suppose you could chat about the weather to begin with.
It is important for fellas to know that women are typically chatty creatures. So, ask a leading question and sit back and listen. Every once in a while, comment on what she has said or a point made. To continue the conversation ask another question either about the topic or a new subject.

When it becomes your time to talk, let her know something about you and your interests and concerns. Do not monopolize the conversation or tell all all at one sitting. Save some information for another time. As you talk to her, periodically ask if she has any questions, comments, or concerns about what you are saying. Doing so will keep the conversation moving along and give you some insight into her personality and beliefs.

Knowledge is empowering. I recommend that you locate the Index at the top right of the main screen and familiarize yourself with the contents. It contains links to helpful informative insightful, as well as how-to articles that discuss the most common questions and concerns people ask about. In addition, click on the site's Home Page for even more information.

BOTTOM LINE:

Sex for women is primarily between their ears.
What does this mean? The biggest turn on is when her man says and does things to make her feel valued, wanted, beautiful, important, and, needed.

Because great sex is a combination of making love to her mind and soul as well as her body, each couple is unique. It requires time and practice in order to work out the "kinks" and find out not only what works and what does not, but also how to address each person's unique needs when it comes to stimulating both her mind and her body, not to mention yours. So, better me thinks to get to know each other personally, first and foremost, establish an emotional connection well before establishing a physical connection. If things are to work well with the two of you you'll be glad you built the foundation of a relationship properly. Oh, and stop thinking about how to get your rocks off and/or that because orgasms are critically important to you, they must also be for the gentler gender. Not necessarily so. Start reading the articles.

-doc

Actually, yes he can escape her clutches - but it does take a bit of work to bring it off.

A man wishing to escape must plead contagious illness or incapacitating injury and must apologize profusely for being unable to comply with her wishes. He must sound sincere and then must immediately leave.

Thanks you for your long submission dancingdoc2
I quite enjoyed your long topic dissertation
I think I am experienced however sometimes I hesitate when someone attractive or very attractive like this 26 y/o girl is attracted to an older man like me somehow changes the equation when she is not talking about monetary values like others do.
I asked her few questions about herself where she finds herself now as a kind of an icebreaker
Hopefully I may be able to build a bridge over to her side brick by brick I suppose.

Actually I have send a rough dirty message back as I decided to gamble all I had and after two days she responded asking me if I like to play rough LOL!
I got a clue from EEK so I told this chick I wanted to mess around (so we could be on equal grounds) with her hair and make up It worked!

Intelligence is definitely one of the checkboxes I prefer to see ticked.

It's not a deciding factor, but a noticable lack of it is.

Funny thing is, I have a lot of academics in my life... and while I value their academic intelligence, I have come to learn that for many of them, knowledge comes at the expense of common sense.

So... someone with a balance of the two is ideal.

Thank you for discussingthis topic and timely manner I joined this forum
Just started to date online a very cute girl she is keen on me so I got to read her profile where she insists in engaging people in conversation before sex. I thought WTF! but then again now I know it is not that meaningless idea and talk I can:) Let's hope I do not bore her to death:)
Any advice as to what topics of attention should I possible bring? I do not want to engage in relationships before having sex that may be a turn off for me.

I am not disagreeing with Doc, but I will say that he's missed a bit. Most of the time and when dealing with most women - okay but there are women who are no more interested in investing in a relationship before enjoying sex than she is interested in flying under her own power. She wants to check him out before she makes the 'relationship' decision.

Why not? When he's naked, there's no place for a man to hide. How he treats her during and afterwards will tell her more about him than mere conversation will. He will be betrayed by his actions.

Next, seems some here have yet to embrace the concept that when a woman puts on make-up, she's putting on 'war paint'. Research has shown that women will show more skin, behave more provocatively when she's ovulating - and going out on the town with her girlfriends. Even if she's not conciously hunting- she's still hunting.

Yes, she may want to feel she's important, valued, loved - but that might not be what she wants specifically from you right now. Sometimes, she just wants to have a little fun.

That is a great comment EEK true to say that most attractive women do get away what what they expect to get especially when a guy is baked LOL! But what about the poor bloke when is cornered.Would he have anything to say? I wonder

> I only ask as intelligence is incredibly sexy to me, but to many of my friends it seems to not be very important.

Your friends are probably young and immature.

Classic example:"Shallow Hal",a film with Jack Black and Gwenyth Paltrow.Those who have seen it will know what I mean.Those who haven't seen it it's about a guy who only wants to date the hot chicks,it's all about looks and nothing else.Then he gets put under a spell and falls in love with a "fat chick",but to him she is the girl of his dreams,smart,funny and beautiful.

i think that if you find someone you can connect with based on intelligence, you then will find those other factors in them and be attracted to them, like looks etc. if that makes sense?

i have friends exactly like this. they complain constantly about not having a boyfriend, but are only interested in guys that are good looking or have a certain job. i think because they aren't willing to meet men and give them a chance to see if they connect, they do miss out on a lot.

of course i can't ever say this to them, because then i'm a 'slut'. might be, but at least i i have a man i get along so well with that i get to see on a regular basis.

Now THAT'S what women should be up in arms about - that "You're a slut" comment. BULL!!

There really is no such thing as a slut. That's a term men invented so they could use shame to control women's use of their own bodies and to control her enjoyment of her own sexuality. Then they got women to "buy into" the concept so now women use it as a weapon against other women and - as you have said yourself - to control yourself so you fit into some nice 'package deal' so some man of limited confidence needn't fear "comparison" with your past lovers.

Say it, girl - say it!

Let me think; Family money? Royalty? Daddy's company? Not entirely legal job? Not really official job-extra's? Fighting squad? Athlete? Good looking body or face? Letting yourself be used as a string-puppet by a million-profit-company, set up with the scissors next to the strings, so that he would take the nasty fall should anything be exposed; ladies and gentlemen I give you the man "responsible". They're always looking for a simpleton for the latter ;)

I can see how that disturbs you Rouge. Sounds like the male version of "doll, you just sit next to me and be pretty". Only this guy's handbag needs to be filled with a lot of cash too (like some sort of rich pretty widdow ;)). But I'm guessing he needs to be young and not previously married as well, right? Or is Prince Charming allowed a little "flaw" in their book? :p speaking of which; doesn't sound like much of a fairytale to me what they want:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Rouge;274598]I have no idea, but they seem to choose guys based on physical features over guys who are intelligent. "he's so sweet, but too short" or "yeah, he's smart but he's *insert mixed race here or physical feature*". I find it incredibly annoying, and as someone who can be (and often is) sexually attracted to intelligence I can't understand it. For example, one of my closer friends is a software engineer (a gifted one), but she'll turn down collegues and friends who are smart, funny, employed etc for some giant brutish guy who has no interest in her interests and/or her. It doesn't make sense to me.[/QUOTE]

The funny thing is, is that these are the main individuals who complain that they can never find a good partner.

[QUOTE=RedRoses;274599]Let me think; Family money? Royalty? Daddy's company? Not entirely legal job? Not really official job-extra's? Fighting squad? Athlete? Good looking body or face? Letting yourself be used as a string-puppet by a million-profit-company, set up with the scissors next to the strings, so that he would take the nasty fall should anything be exposed; ladies and gentlemen I give you the man "responsible". They're always looking for a simpleton for the latter ;)[/QUOTE]

That and they're also looking for someone that they can change, just like they see on tv lol.

Yep!

"Unrealistic Expectations" is what they call this particular affliction.

Of course, they never realise that THEY aren't the sort of girls a Prince Charming is seeking.

I have to agree with RR here,if I can't have a decent conversation with someone,I get bored very easily.They don't have to be Einstein but should be able to keep the conversation going for longer than a few minutes.The other factors mentioned don't really interest me at all as personality and intelligence are more important traits to me.

If there is no meeting of the minds, there will be NO meeting of the bodies.

Although how is a Prince Charming is supposed to 'bring in the bucks' while being brainless?

I won't chose any of those over intelligence. At the risk of sounding like an arrogant b*tch; if I can't have a meaningful and inspiring conversation with someone who is a great part of my life (partner, lover, close friend), I'll soon be bored. To explain myself;

I'm quite a chatterbox and talk to random strangers easily. I find it entertaining, amusing, interesting and at times refreshing to hear people speak and share. It can be quite an eye-opener on how society/people/the world works. And I think people can learn a lot from eachother if they'd just learn to listen patiently first. Not to mention learning how to speak. Communicating is almost like an under appreciated art. One you can take great joy in creating (I know I do :))

Still; if I try to get to deeper levels, it's often not easy to get the conversation to spiral into thriving interaction... So it can be such a relieve to talk to someone with who I don't have to explain myself in different ways adjusted to the specific individual or group. That I don't have to hold back on certain aspects and can just steam away, where I know with others I had lost him half way or simply wouldn't had gotten to it, because the interaction had already lost too much momentum. That is really satisfying on another level. To receive a well thought through response that I see is based on comprehension of the subject, is like a little gift. Luckily we have fora such as these. But when this sort of conversation happens face2face instead of over a computerscreen, it gets even the more thriving :) It's not that you'd have to agree or be at the same page (in fact; critique, counter-arguments and unexpected questioning is much preferable!) But that feeling that you've met your match; someone who responds vividly and you get into this flow of interaction. O yes, that makes me happy! It creates a bond. Almost like love at first sight. And I'd call it sexy.

As you may see this is not just a matter of intelligence. Aspects like; personality, communicative skills, social skills, even; emotional intelligence. Particularly since conversation does not imply rational subjects ;) Some people are insanely intelligent, but lack these. That won't lead to pleasant conversations either ;)

I appreciate you are using intelligence here :P

EDITED: REMOVED SIGNATURE LINK.
PLEASE DO NOT ADVERTISE WITHOUT
PRIOR PERMISSION OF THE SITE ADMINISTRATOR.

THANK YOU,
MODERATOR 3

Oh yeah! She is giving in quite quickly as she was prepared when she first saw my pics but she did not write to me. Now she invites me into her world to play rough:)[QUOTE]I am XXXX. I just want anything you do to please a woman with, just to be a bit rougher. Fell me?[/QUOTE]
So now I have to brush over mine techniques and acquire those I do not have for this site is a gold mine:)

Intelligence is always important (unless you just want a bit of fun ;)) So important you can have a decent intelectual conversation with a guy, and things in common etc etc.

However, in saying this, it would not be top priority (well..a certain degree may be required though..)

Would be interesting to consider which of these would be a greater priority..?

[QUOTE]Height
Body weight
Voice
Eyes
Musculature
Ethnicity
Job
Earnings
Status[/QUOTE]

Or, if comparing a tall, hunky, attractive guy with a good high earning job; but several bricks short of a load, who you couldn't have a deep conversation with...

Verses; Short, just below average in attractiveness, guy with a not do great job, but had the best, interesting deep conversations with, and was intelligent...

Which would you prefer..? I don't know if I could decide tbh... I would like to think the second guy, but if it was for a fling, then I'm pretty sure the first..

I'd definitely chose the second. Even if it were just for one evening. Because really; nothing intrigues me more but a man with a silver tongue and crystal mind. If he's got a heart of gold, strong shoulders and velvet hands to go with that, I'd think I've found treasure. And waiting for the catch to reveal itself :rolleyes:

If we can have the best interesting intelligent conversations, then I'd frankly be surprised if he doesn't have a great job... I'd consider that a serious case of bad luck and be pretty confident he'd get one in the near-future. Unless by "great" you mean the earnings? Because I could imagine someone being paid less than his worth, even by choice. For instance if he's chosen to work for a cause in non-profit/government/semi-profit. That would actually be another plus :)

[QUOTE]If we can have the best interesting intelligent conversations, then I'd frankly be surprised if he doesn't have a great job... I'd consider that a serious case of bad luck and be pretty confident he'd get one in the near-future. Unless by "great" you mean the earnings? Because I could imagine someone being paid less than his worth, even by choice. For instance if he's chosen to work for a cause in non-profit/government/semi-profit. That would actually be another plus [/QUOTE]

Yeh, this did cross my mind whilst writing it.
I suppose exhibit a) Could of gained a good job by luck, or "good" ..as in high paid, trough other talents, maybe looks (...if that is a talent..)
B) Perhaps is in a "dead end" job, through lack of motivation..? or luck..?

Interesting point to think though. I wonder if, though in theory many of us girls would choose B, how many actually would if he was much less attractive..? ...I guess he wouldn't get the initial chance; as in A could get dates easily due to physical appearance, but people may soon loose interest, whereas B would struggle more to get interest, but once got would probably be a lot more successful..

I always find people somehow become more attractive (even physically...in the minds eye) when I fall for them due to their personality rather than looks alone).

I find the mercenary element - has a good job/higher status - rather disgusting. As if, such things 'make a man'. Such thoughts make everything TAWDRY. (I am now going to wash my paws.)

Intelligence has no substitutes. Nothing else will make up for the lack of a quick and questing mind - nothing! If there is no meeting of the minds there will not - oh hell no - be a meeting of the flesh.

Because those of limited mental ability cannot take on new info and will hold onto old info tooth and claw. They know they're not up to par and therefore fear new info. Fear losing what they 'know' because that they understand and they're not quite sure they'll understand this new stuff or be able to knit the new info into the rest that remains, as yet, unchanged. OF they don't understand the implications of what they say or do. Like the guy who opens a can of beer in chruch and when looked at by others asks "What?"

Sorry, but I'm not willing to get with someone like that.

I agree with you, job or status never really come into my mind. I guess it could be explained that women are looking for a provider (not necessarily consciously, but in evolutionary terms).

Another question though, if intelligence is so important, how would you actually define it, or what type of intelligence would you mean? It's hard to define..

As in IQ?
Current affairs knowledge?
Ability to hold deep/interesting/intellectual conversation?
Logic?
Level of education?
Strong ability in something specific, such as sport or music or drama?

I personally find the convo aspect important. However, I also find it really sexy when someone has a skill they are passionate about. Does not have to be anything particular, or an interest of mine, but is soo sexy seeing them doing something they are good at. Music and dance specifically so, as is also an interest of mine.
I was friends with a guy for ages, and there was one moment, the first moment I saw him on stage playing guitar; all of a sudden my opinion of him totally changed...he was no longer just a friend! ...amazing what a moment or a passion can do..

I guess this would go with the conversation aspect, but something I love about my wife is her quick wit. I've been told by many people that I'm funny and have a quick wit, but unbeknownst to them a lot of times I tire of their conversations because I feel "on a different level". I'm not meaning to sound elitist, but I'm sure everyone here has had a similar feeling.

My wife though compliments me perfectly, in that her wit is just as biting and quick, if not more so. We love each other because she "gets" me, and I her. :)

Oh Firmus, I've been there as well. Hubby and I went to dinner at one of his work colleague's. Out of 5 women, there wasn't one I could talk to. Not one. They were all about 'protecting my little dears in first grade from knowing too much too soon about the real world". ICK! Talk about bored out of my mind! And the hostess had to ask her husband if her roast was properly cooked?!?!

I could have wept! But we left instead.

Ugh, exactly!

Back in college (in the days before texting) we had come up with our own sign language so we could talk to each other secretly about everyone and still be "polite". We would trace letters of words on each others' skin and wipe after each word. I loved when she had a skirt on, as her thigh was my favorite slate. ;)

[url=http://jasonsmi63.inube.com/blog/872522/the-right-way-to-colour-your-gro... acid stain