Sirene has recently returned from a several month ban. In one of his first posts, he made what I read as a terribly misogynistic and violent post. I called him on it (and would prefer he be banned permanently) and he responded that I lack humour.
I object to his "humour" on two grounds:
1. About twenty percent of all women in the UK have been victims of sexual abuse. I guess this is about the same throughout the developed world. It could be seen as one reason for Dancing Doc's exellent thread on protecting oneself. Violent sex is always a risk for a woman. We are raped; not adult men. We cannot let our guards down. We typically do not see humour in rap songs or statements of violence in sexual relationships. Some of us treat victims; some of us have been victims and some of us are victims. We all have friends who have been touched by this. Violent sex causing physical and psychological pain, sometimes permanent, is not funny. Ask any sexually dysfunctional woman who has been a victim.
2. We have people of all ages here; I am towards the top end. We have early teens who are still trying to figure out what their bodies are feeling. We older types can dismiss Sirene as another immature, semi-tough who is covering his own inadequacies. The younger are still establishing their human, as well as their sexual, identities. His vile statements are telling young women that they are objects for men's enjoyment and release. And telling young men this is the way to think about women.
I also object to his putting down the religious beliefs of others. This is not a spirituality board. Yes, I have commented upon the effects of religious training on sexual development and satisfaction. Sociologically, that is demonstrable. But saying so is not hurtful; Sirene's ignorant anti-religious tirades are.
Whether or not Sirene and his ilk get banned is not up to me but I hope that this gets into the guidelines and hope that others appreciate that the bigotry and general nastiness he posts as "humour" are not representative of this helpful Board.
That's not goths, that's emos.
An yeah, I've been a round a very long while on this site, saw a lot of the things he was saying back then, and i'm surprised he wasn't banned earlier, and permanently.
And seeing a lot of the things he's been sawing NOW, i'm thinking permanent might be the only option for this kid.
wow never looked at it this way...but still like u said hes tryin to make trouble...gettin people riled up
Well, after reviewing some of his posts I don't think what he said was appropriate for this board.
A lot of it was said for no other reason than fishing for reactions.
If this was purely a social board then I'd probably just ignore it. But, because this forum is meant to inform and help people, I find it inappropriate and unnecessary.
You have my vote.
[QUOTE=sera300;195928]I know when I was about 16, I was searching for my own identity & did not want to appear as all other women did. I had long blond, wavy hair with a tailored look. In this search I did not wish to look as all others did. Hence, I had my my hair cut off, bobbed and in an asymmetrical look, partial shave on one side. I later had it colored dark, had my ears pierced all the way up. Wore black leggings, black scrunch boots, a black pin-stripped swing coat, and tight shirts. I was seeking a look of non-conformity & this was a shock to many. I wanted to be an outcast form the cheerleader look...Listened to strange music, drive around in my Camaro, etc. There was not bashing or violence...I wanted to be an outcast for sometime & learned much about the Victorian Era. Slowly, I learned about the need to conform to enter a corporate environment. All in all, I was searching who I was...I only did this through changing my looks. Now, traditional & tailored and have been so for many years...love Chanel shoes & attire! It was a stage I out grew with time when I figured who I wanted to be! During this time I experimented with recreational drugs--coke. At 14 I was screwing around w/my bf, drinking at 15 & 16 when not driving, sneaking into bars, drag racing a '69 Camaro & Corvette w/ a L-82, hanging at concerts. In time I realized I had to grow up & march to my own drum by the age of 17/18. Still like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains, and Black Sabbath. And Billy Idol...esp. Flesh for Fantasy. Gave my parents a run for their money...so to say.[/QUOTE]
Hey Sera,
I don't usually post, but what you said hit a chord -
I'm from a "broken home" - parents divorced at 4 years old, mother "decided" she was gay and had a string of "special" friends until she moved out of home and left me and my brother at 16 years old. Father died at 18 years old, and after being a high / over achiever at school and Uni, with a leaning towards metal/ goth/ punk scene, I finally left EVERYTHING behind at 21 and emigrated to foreign country.
Now 28, married for 4 years, pulling in 45K+ p.a. (corporate rock whore :-) ), and listening / playing Metallica, Less Than Jake, NUFAN, various blues etc for fun.
To anyone out there who is having doubts - YOU decide what direction your life takes, and anyone who tells you otherwise can get ****ED :-)
I know you limeys have an odd sense of humor, but Sirene sure as hell ain't no Mr. Bean. He's a goth - his sole purpose in life is to try to shock people. I'll back Brandye on this - ban him before some poor unfortunate soul takes his advice without knowing any better...
And just because we're on the topic of jokes:
How many goths does it take to screw in a lightbulb? - None. They'd rather cry alone in the dark. Zing!
Sorry, I'm drunk...
I would have to ask each of the Moderators; are the articulated opinions [of subsequent posts] conducive to the forum which they intend to represent?
We encourage freedom of speech here - the price of that freedom is a certain amount of patience and tolerance from us all when some Members appear to post immaturely or inappropriately.
However, it is not patience and tolerance without end. Anyone who continues to deliberately take advantage of this freedom (at the expense of others) is treading a very fine line. Deliberate crudity and insulting language is especially frowned upon!
Certainly anyone who has been banned from the Board is watched very carefully on their return; if they continue to not heed the warnings they have been given, then another long-term (or permanent) ban can (and will) be considered.
[QUOTE=oedipussy;195714]He's a goth - his sole purpose in life is to try to shock people.
[/QUOTE]
wtf does being a goth have to do with hate speech? i'm a Gothic Lolita so i cannot speak for all western goths but i know plenty of them that can hold a decent conversation without "trying to shock people"
don't you find it ironic that this thread was started to speak against hate speech and stereotypes and yet here we are generating even more stereotypes?
[QUOTE=eminatic;195741]wtf does being a goth have to do with hate speech? i'm a Gothic Lolita so i cannot speak for all western goths but i know plenty of them that can hold a decent conversation without "trying to shock people"
don't you find it ironic that this thread was started to speak against hate speech and stereotypes and yet here we are generating even more stereotypes?[/QUOTE]
Yes. One drunk person brings that up and this entire thread is anti-gothic.
Anyways, Sirene's a **** disturber. Leave him or her to his or her own devices, not worth trying to argue with someone of that mentality.
[QUOTE=-wittyphrasehere-;195742]Yes. One drunk person brings that up and this entire thread is anti-gothic.
[/QUOTE]
well if that were a valid excuse, then anyone- including this Sirene- could say anything and claim the same excuse, and according to your logic it would be OK?
Well, this is what I get for posting drunk. Ugh, I opened a can of worms that I just have no interest in getting into. The whole "goth debate" is a little too highschool for me...
But... I'd hardly classify what I said as hate speech. As far as stereotyping, that's just the way it goes when someone actively chooses to be a stereotype. I have no idea what gothic lolita is, but since you aren't on here trying to get a rise out of people by making anti-religious and violent remarks, I don't have anything negative to say about it. How someone wants to dress makes no difference to me (I'm not exactly too conservative myself) - we're talking about how people act.
I still like you, eminatic. :)
Now seriously, guys, I'm on vacation! If you want to argue with me, you'll have to wait till I get back.
anyone knowing Sirene from the beginning knows he posts off the wall, he is generally grounded if you read all the posts,he likes to get people riled up and they fall hook,line and sinker for it...we shouldn't be judgemental, we should try to be helping to each other...if Sirene goads you into something that is your issue...the issue he got banned for, might have been a little too much over the top, BUT it was a sensitive topic at the time..that's my two bits..:)
lol yup oed i guess thats how it goes...Ive learned never to post when Im having a bad day since Im usually pissed and dont think straight lol. But I mean yes there is stereotyping, but sirene is doing this as well. I mean he is just sitting her blasting away at peoples beliefs, making obscene comments...I mean I dont even know the guy, never knew he existed until a few days ago, and I already see why he had been banned.
[QUOTE=oedipussy;195766]Well, this is what I get for posting drunk. Ugh, I opened a can of worms that I just have no interest in getting into. The whole "goth debate" is a little too highschool for me...[/QUOTE]
well i wasn't debating about "goth" in particular.:p mostly your statement just got me thinking and i guess i was mostly wondering to myself aloud why it is socially acceptable to stereotype some individuals yet considered hate speech to stereotype others
[QUOTE=eminatic;195765]well if that were a valid excuse, then anyone- including this Sirene- could say anything and claim the same excuse, and according to your logic it would be OK?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, wasn't excusing Oed's actions:
[QUOTE=eminatic;195741]
don't you find it ironic that this thread was started to speak against hate speech and stereotypes and yet here we are generating even more stereotypes?[/QUOTE]
"We" - "more than one", and I was pointing out only Oedi made a stereotypical comment. You generalized that the attitudes of one post as the attitude of everyone on the entire thread.
Anyways, I got nothing against Goths. Finding out what "emo" actually is, I tried to find an unbiased site for goths. Closest thing I could get to was;
http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm
As a general trend, Oedi was right:
[QUOTE]Gordon A. Crews, associate dean of the School of Justice Studies at Roger Williams University in Bristol, CT is an investigator of what he calls the "occult"... He said: "It is up to the individual to define what Goth is for themselves ... The mentality is, 'I want to be left alone but I want to be seen. I want to see the shock on other peoples' faces." [/QUOTE]
But the site goes on further to add that Goths are not oriented to violence, white supremacy, and neo-Nazi groups as society tends to stereotype. As well, even though they tend to brood in the darker aspects of society, they maintain a hope for a brighter future.
Non-violence and hope are two things I respect.
I view Gothic subculture as an indicator that there is something wrong in our society. A desperate, depressed, angry, hate filled, despairing, non-violent and angsty subculture is not something to be bashed and oppressed, but to be understood so that flaws in our society can be found and hopefully fixed.
Witty:
The best I can figure is emo is short for emotional as described on one site. But this was interesting the subculture goes back to early "Punk" (the stuff I knew in the 80's) and is more accurately described under the "Grunge" movement which began on the West Coast years back. Looking through some of the info. Goth has been around for years just the degrees varied.
If most modern "goths" knew their European history better, they would not claim to be goth. Or visigoth. I do have a few patients who wear the black and the strange lipstick and nail polish, etc. None of them are particularly knowledgeable about the world around them let alone the world of a thousand years ago.
lol Brandye...I was thinking about that back when they brought it up as a style...lol but hey nobody cares about the past anymore...sadly
[quote=Ducy;195898]lol Brandye...I was thinking about that back when they brought it up as a style...lol but hey nobody cares about the past anymore...sadly[/quote]From what I read; the Goth culture expresses interest in the Victorian & Edwardian Era's.
And we digress.
from what i remember, the central goth philosophy is that it is a group where those that have been outcast by society can join together and be in the company of those who are more accepting or open minded, not to bash the "conformists" or promote violence.
of course i know that is not always the case, especially not with the "goths" of my generation :rolleyes:
[quote=eminatic;195924]from what i remember, the central goth philosophy is that it is a group where those that have been outcast by society can join together and be in the company of those who are more accepting or open minded, not to bash the "conformists" or promote violence.
of course i know that is not always the case, especially not with the "goths" of my generation :rolleyes:[/quote]I know when I was about 16, I was searching for my own identity & did not want to appear as all other women did. I had long blond, wavy hair with a tailored look. In this search I did not wish to look as all others did. Hence, I had my my hair cut off, bobbed and in an asymmetrical look, partial shave on one side. I later had it colored dark, had my ears pierced all the way up. Wore black leggings, black scrunch boots, a black pin-stripped swing coat, and tight shirts. I was seeking a look of non-conformity & this was a shock to many. I wanted to be an outcast form the cheerleader look...Listened to strange music, drive around in my Camaro, etc. There was not bashing or violence...I wanted to be an outcast for sometime & learned much about the Victorian Era. Slowly, I learned about the need to conform to enter a corporate environment. All in all, I was searching who I was...I only did this through changing my looks. Now, traditional & tailored and have been so for many years...love Chanel shoes & attire! It was a stage I out grew with time when I figured who I wanted to be! During this time I experimented with recreational drugs--coke. At 14 I was screwing around w/my bf, drinking at 15 & 16 when not driving, sneaking into bars, drag racing a '69 Camaro & Corvette w/ a L-82, hanging at concerts. In time I realized I had to grow up & march to my own drum by the age of 17/18. Still like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains, and Black Sabbath. And Billy Idol...esp. Flesh for Fantasy. Gave my parents a run for their money...so to say.
[quote=d4nte;195943]Hey Sera,
I don't usually post, but what you said hit a chord -
I'm from a "broken home" - parents divorced at 4 years old, mother "decided" she was gay and had a string of "special" friends until she moved out of home and left me and my brother at 16 years old. Father died at 18 years old, and after being a high / over achiever at school and Uni, with a leaning towards metal/ goth/ punk scene, I finally left EVERYTHING behind at 21 and emigrated to foreign country.
Now 28, married for 4 years, pulling in 45K+ p.a. (corporate rock whore :-) ), and listening / playing Metallica, Less Than Jake, NUFAN, various blues etc for fun.
To anyone out there who is having doubts - YOU decide what direction your life takes, and anyone who tells you otherwise can get ****ED :-)[/quote]I grew up in such a "normal family life"---I wanted to know what was abnormal. One thing learned; teaches you to step out [and to think outside] of the box & be whatever you want in life, it's limitless. Life is to be seized and is there for the taking. Boundaries are only those in an individuals mind!