YOU DONT TALK A WOMAN INTO GIVING YOU HEAD.

You should be ashamed of yourself for posting this. I mean come one, she hates it cuz her last boyfriend would force her and make her feel ****ty. So guess what...by you pressuring her its just as bad.

The only thing you really could do is talk to her about it more. Dont force the situation, just explain to her that you would really like to experience it, and that you understand that she is uncomfortable and would never maker her do it if she didnt want to. Then should you be so lucky, you dont do anything her ex did. You let her do tthe work, dont grab her or thrust into her or anything. And if she wants you to use a condom, you do it.

And I have a feeling EEK will be here soon...

This is an example of a woman making you pay for her past bf's mistakes - which, in making him her bf, means HER mistake. What YOU say is this:

"Okay, I'll pay for his mistakes then. That seems perfectly fair."

Instead of giving her cunnilingus, substitute body worship skipping over her clitoris. When questioned say:

"I'm still paying for his mistakes."

The point is, SHE has to step forward and offer. You do not argue. You do not discuss the point any further. You do not ask for fellatio. But she doesn't get, until she gives. Sorry for the "tit for tat" advice but she needs to grow up.

And yes you can pet and make appreciative noises - but let her control the entire act of fellatio and for heaven's sake do NOT hold her head. There is a difference between 'face ****ing' which is what her past bf was doing, and fellatio. Learn it.

We each have limits that come from god-know-where and this is evidently hers - for now.

At some point, she may chhose to relent; she may never. There is little you can do about it. With this being your experience, there is still much to be done. Cool it for a while.

[COLOR=black]Evil is right I think that would probably work if you want to take that tactic. I know you said you wanted advice from women but I figured it can’t hurt. What seems like the problem to me is the power positions that comes with oral sex. If you are standing and she is kneeling it puts you in a much more dominate position. I would suggest you on your back on a bed, it would be least dominate. Don’t do what her ex did, and try to make her feel equal. Stop asking for it as well, I know it sounds wired but your best chances is make her feel comfortable and come up with the idea her self. Use prompts instead of asking her out right. Try to make her feel comfortable with it and help her get over her distain of giving oral. [/COLOR]
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You seem like a fairly compassionate guy and you obviously care about her or you wouldn't be making her come so much.

At the end of the day what you feel comfortable doing and what I (or anyone else) would do is probably very different. However, here is my suggestion:

Talk to her and explain to her that, whilst you understand and sympathize with the fact that her last boyfriend was a tool, you're not him, and that you would really like her to do it for you. You've got an understanding of WHY she hates it; it "makes her feel slutty".

Is this just from her boyfriend pulling her hair and making her gag? Possibly, but I would expect either she has some kind of issue from before that OR that he was either abusive or called her names during it.

I bring this up because my girlfriend often enjoys having her hair pulled and being called things like "slut" during sex (or giving me head). She enjoys being dominated; your girl may not.

Possibly make up some rules for it, particularly for your first time. For example, she hated being pushed around; perhaps you're not allowed to touch her or your hands are tied up (lightly, with a silk scarf for example, or ties, which are great) to the bedhead. Basically you want to eliminate any tangible discomfort she would have with the situation.

At the end of the day, all you can do is talk to her and discuss what you want, and how it makes you feel when you don't get it (that you're being used, possibly, or that your relationship isn't as reciprocal as you want it to be). Be careful to phrase it correctly - it's a touchy issue but you guys seem to have a pretty solid connection. Try and explain to her that you're not like her past boyfriend and that you will take steps to avoid putting her in a similar situation, like tieing yourself up.

Personally, I would avoid making her feel bad (such as EEK's suggestion) or not bringing it up at all, but this is my personal opinion and how I would handle the situation; the other posts in this thread are equally as valid.

If you would like some further clarification feel free to PM me.

Okay Daniel, let's take it from the top.

1. she KNOWS how he feels about it - remember, they already had this discussion. She told him how she felt.

2. however emotionally frail she might be, it is simply is NOT fair to let the next man pay for the crimes of those who went before. He now tells her how he feels. (asking, begging, and cajoling her does not convey this information in a way that gains the man any respect)

The point is, you play fair, you deal with this man right here right now, you leave your baggage at the door, and you please your partner as well as yourself. You give to get.

Anything less and you're a selfish lover.
My usual advice for those faced with a selfish lover: dump him/her.

So this girl's getting off lightly.

DON'T try to talk her into it because then you're "pushing" her to do something she's not keen on doing. Being too aggressive. Whereas letting her face up to her own issues in the way I have described is neither too aggressive nor too weak.

EEK,

Just because they have discussed it does not necessarily mean they have discussed it in depth or in detail. Even if they have, it can be hard sometimes to figure out WHY things annoy you and to try and talk more rationally to a partner.

Just because they've talked about the issue - possibly briefly, possibly at length - does not necessarily mean that she "knows how he feels".

Is it really fair to say she's a "selfish lover" just because she is unable to leave her baggage at the door? We all have issues that we have to contend with, particularly from past lovers who may not have been as caring as they should have been.

If this girl had been raped would you be as strong in your assessment that she should just "leave her baggage at the door"?

There are many complex issues at work here and we cannot really say what has gone on with this girl in the past. Overcoming such ingrained and powerful issues is more than a case of ignoring it and hoping it goes away (although indeed sometimes that is the best medicine) and I certainly am no trained psychologist. What I DO know is that such situations have to be handled with care and respect until we are certain of the WHOLE story.

Is it fair that her current guy isn't getting head because of another *******? Definitely not. Is she being immature and selfish? Personally I don't think so, but of course I would need to know more to make a full judgement.

I respect your opinion - and totally understand where you're coming from - but situations such as this are complex and all each of us can really do is offer advice and guidance. I'm not trying to say I'm right, or that you're wrong - just that we have differing points of view which are both equally valid.

Look it is other people's job to be nice, caring, and sensitive - not mine. My job is to be reality to the point of getting people to actually face and fix their issues head-on. If this requires a bit a "tough love" - I'm game.

Unless she is given an incentive to change her behavior, she won't. By saying and doing precisely as I have "prescribed", she will be given that incentive.

Should changing require the assistance of the medical profession, go get it. He is her lover not her psychoanalyst.

Every time you interact with someone, you teach them how you want them to behave. By not being so "Galahad", she will be less of a "princess" because being a "princess" does not get her what she wants.

Thus far, being nice hasn't gotten him what he wants - so let's try something a little different.

You've just started seeing her. Don't push her, or you'll end up pushing her away and be no better than her ex. Thus the cycle continues.

Give her time. Yes, she is carrying baggage from her last relationship and needs to work through it instead of punishing you for what someone else did. Once she becomes comfortable around you she may start doing it.

NOBODY should feel pressure to perform acts that they don't want to do. Would you want to do something you didn't want, that made you uncomfortable??
You say that you enjoyed going down on her than later made statements like it was a chore. Which is it?

I DON'T agree with what EEK suggests. SEXUAL MANIPULATION is not a healthy relationship. It's just the same as a wife denying her husband sex because she can.

Few do agree with me. But taking without giving is also not healthy. Making him pay for another man's mistakes is also not healthy. Her not understanding that it was the man and how he was doing it and not the act itself is also not healthy.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you - also means SHE should face up to her end of the bargain and not just take the free ride he's been offering her.

EEK I usually love your ideas, and I am kinda torn. Do you mean never again do you do oral? Or just once in a while. Yes it is unhealthy, but at the same time, doesnt it seem kind of immature to not go down cuz she wont.

To the OP:
You could always suggest 69. That way she is on top controls all motion (harder to thrust when she is pinning you down. Plus she gets satisfaction at the same time.

EDIT: Wait I just realized I answered my own question lol. I've always told my female friends that if their men dont like to do something (extra foreplay or something) then they should stop putting outt haha

EEK, you state:

"Unless she is given an incentive to change her behavior, she won't. By saying and doing precisely as I have "prescribed", she will be given that incentive."

This is the primary point where you and I have a difference of opinion, I believe. By discussing how he feels in a more detailed manner, if she is a "worthwhile" lady, she will endeavour to fix her problems and make her relationship as strong as it can be. If the relationship requires such tactics as you prescribe then IMHO it's not really worth working on.

Sure, he is her lover, but a lover should be a friend first and foremost, because there has to be mutual respect there. And friends understand that sometimes people have their own stuff they have to work through.

So long as she's making a real effort - and I don't know if she is or not, obviously - then I think using the "tit for tat" method will only exacerbate the problem.

By way of example - my girlfriend used to have a lot of hangups from past boyfriends. With time and care she got over them, but did so when she was ready to.

I understand where you're coming from, I truly do. However the question here is, does she have a genuine problem or is she using it as an excuse? I am inclined to believe the former, you seem to be leaning more towards the latter.

Its unfortunate the OP hasn't posted back to give us an update on the situation, but I am just saying based on the information given it could be either way.

[QUOTE=Brandye;215899]We each have limits that come from god-know-where and this is evidently hers - for now.

At some point, she may chhose to relent; she may never. There is little you can do about it. With this being your experience, there is still much to be done. Cool it for a while.[/QUOTE]

Brandye is right about this, in my opinion. She is obviously afraid of a repeat experience of what happened before, so she needs to build up a high degree of trust in you before she will relent on this. Whatever you do, don't try to push her into it or it will just reinforce her negative feelings about it. If she is going to do it, then it will be in her own time, when she feels she is ready.

It is also possible that she may never want to do it again. If that is the case, then so be it. Don't condemn her for it, nobody should be forced to do something they are not comfortable with, whatever the reason. I disagree with EEK when she says that this girl is punishing you for her previous bad experience. To me, that sounds too much like blaming the victim for being abused. (Sorry, EEK, but that's the way it reads to me.) If you feel that she is doing that, then it will only put more pressure on her and make things more difficult for both of you. There are many ways to give each other pleasure without getting too hung up on one specific act. Broaden your repertoire, and find what works for both of you, and who knows, all in good time....

Cycle - I am not blaming her for what happened to her - it was clearly her ex's fault. I hope she dumped him immediately afterwards.

But you simply CANNOT make your current guy/gal pay for your ex's misdeeds.
You have to judge each person as he/she is: right here, right now upon his/her own merits and see him/her clearly for what and who he/she is.

To do anything else is dreadfully unfair and to acquiese to this behavior pattern is to permit it to continue.

There is also the chance that, having found this behavior to be successful, she might seek to expand her "no" to other acts of which she is not too terribly fond or did with her ex. Hey, it has been known to happen. There is also the possibility that she's just enjoying a period of selfishness to "make up for" her previous sexual experiences - at least in her own mind, in which case we can all hope that she will soon come out of it and become the generous lover the OP desires.

I can't believe some of the ridiculous comments I'm reading here. EEK is the only person that offered reasonable advice. I say follow it and ignore everyone else...

A discussion will accomplish absolutely nothing. What is there to discuss? There's no complex issue here - she just needs to GET OVER IT. Yeah, sometimes life sucks like that - too damn bad for her. Boo-hoo. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for this girl whatsoever. Her ex-boyfriend's behavior is not this guy's problem. People make their own choices, and she made her's. Time for her to grow up and realize that people don't need to accomodate her because she's hung-up about something that happened in the past. If she doesn't care to change, dump her. The end.

If you're going to indulge in adult play, you'd better be adult about it.

[quote=oedipussy;216015]I can't believe some of the ridiculous comments I'm reading here. EEK is the only person that offered reasonable advice. I say follow it and ignore everyone else...

A discussion will accomplish absolutely nothing. What is there to discuss? There's no complex issue here - she just needs to GET OVER IT. Yeah, sometimes life sucks like that - too damn bad for her. Boo-hoo. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for this girl whatsoever. Her ex-boyfriend's behavior is not this guy's problem. People make their own choices, and she made her's. Time for her to grow up and realize that people don't need to accomodate her because she's hung-up about something that happened in the past. If she doesn't care to change, dump her. The end.[/quote]

Oedi;

I can see for myself you chose which side of the fence you are on---you have grown well! :D

Now; it would be nice to see a moderator to recognize your changes/maturity achieved in a short period of time as well! ;)

Thanks sera. Yeah, I guess I made it over the fence. Although I really don't feel all that different. But it's funny how you can rebuild your life just as quickly as it came crashing down around you...

Recognize me? What, is there like a prize that you get from the site for being helpful or something?

Well, I only skimmed most of the posts, but I kinda agree with EEK's standpoint. However, it was the OP's first time having sex so I assume both are fairly young and shes probably not that much more experienced. I imagine she has quite a hangup about oral after her experience, and may be very insecure and nervous. It might just be a matter of her getting more comfortable and realising that you are different. My ex was in a similar situation when I first started going out with her, she had previous bad experiences with oral and hated the idea of it. If I'd seen this thread then, I probably would have tried EEK's method, instead I just spent a month or so of building her confidence and comfort around me, then encouraging her when she finally did try it, and it took several months but by the end she really enjoyed doing it.

Oedipussy, I disagree with you, but don't label my opinion as ridiculous just because its different to yours. We disagree, so be it.

[quote=oedipussy;216075]Thanks sera. Yeah, I guess I made it over the fence. Although I really don't feel all that different. But it's funny how you can rebuild your life just as quickly as it came crashing down around you...

Recognize me? What, is there like a prize that you get from the site for being helpful or something?[/quote]
Yeah something like that--prize at the end! Life can be easily re-built in the midst of disaster--just takes the ambition & motivation (blond ambition, LOL)! When there is a will; there is a way. ALWAYS. Re-built mine too often!

Too often many cannot find their way out of a wet paper bag....it's all in the mind. Be it, do it, live it.