Good question! Because the likes and loves dont work. Lover loves his wife, not me. I love hubby, not lover (not so much). And the day he rang and told me it was all over, with his wife listening in...that kind of ended it, you could say!
I also think my ex lover is a pretty lazy guy and I dont like that. Yes, we got on great, but we had a long distance relationship..and we knew we were too alike to live together.
So with all that I simply go and try again. Apart from the distance thing hubby and I are very compatible..and I think I need distance anyway in all my relationships..just not so much sometimes.
Balancing act..I know.

Just a question, Margaret... why not leave him and actually seek a fully rewarding relationship with someone you love and who gives you what you need?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to know why.

I cheated for four years.
I did it because I was always slightly ignored by my husband...he always slightly preferred to do things by himself..our conversation tended to be about work and mundane events. Sex was OK...I had all the good ideas, he sort of cruised. I would tell him things and he would forget a lot of the time.
On the other hand he loved my cums.(But my lover really got me going on these!)
I was always a bit secretive..I didnt want to be teased I suppose.
A lot of old family stuff is part of this..teased as a child, solitary at school etc.
So when I met my lover, I was ripe for the plucking. He and I were very similar..both married to independent ppl yet independent, but slightly needy..we both suspected needy behavior scared spouses..so we kept quiet. We got on famously with each other..we wrote endlessly, he considered me his soul mate, we tried new forms of sex..I fulfilled a lot of his dreams. My lover and I were both garrulous, playful, inventive. Yes, I loved him..no, he didnt love me. But I didnt love him very much..we just got on beautifully. But lover demanded very heavy b and d from me and rushed me so he became unsatisfied..I wasnt meeting all his needs. Wife, of course, wouldnt go near anything heavy either.
But husband liked him too. Bonus! I wanted both of them but lover wouldnt come to that party...hubby sort of knew I'd like to, in general terms, but I never did anything about it.
Lover and I broke up when his wife found out. She started paying attention to him then so he was happy. My hubby never knew about any of it and still likes to be off doing his own thing.
I'm taking more responsibility for my own sex needs, as I was awakened to many of them. I am also searching out a new lover. I need the attention. I know that now. I have my own private life and fulfill my needs. I keep more secrets and dont care. If someone doesnt really want to talk to you, they dont deserve to know anything.
If we drift apart, i will have all the lovers I want. If not, I will still play in secret.
I hate being ignored and left alone. My husband is getting what he deserves. I have warned him over the years. Life is too short to be ignored for a TV show or Footy match. But he still leaves me alone for hours and hours even when we are both at home on holiday.
Enough said.
Cheaters do it for a reason, and they learn their needs very fast.

Well I haven't been cheated on (as far as I know at this point), and I haven't cheated on my boyfriend, but I came really close once. I was at a friends house, whom I knew was sexually attracted to me, and he was drinking. He came onto me and I didn't stop him from kissing me on the mouth and chest.

Then I stopped him. I went home and the next day I took out my nipple piercings. A few days later I got a membership to a gym, something I'd never done before. I hadn't really even thought about it. I felt so guilty, and that affected me. I stopped talking to that friend completely. I told my boyfriend what happened. He almost left me, but lucky for me he didn't.

A part to this story that I might add, is my boyfriend is in the army. I hadn't met him in person yet (we had met online while he was in Iraq, but a couple months later we met in person).

Just this last week, I've had another new friend flirting with me. I have flirted with him back, but nothing physical. I feel like a whore, but I just can't explain why I don't stop myself. I think I NEED the flirting, and because my boyfriend is in Texas (and I don't get to talk to him much), I can't get it from him.

The first incident changed me quite a bit. Up to that point, I had been flirting with a lot of guys online. Toying with the idea of meeting them. After that night, I cut them all off. I stopped talking to new people online completely. I stopped looking at other men. I thought and thought and thought about what I'd almost lost, and "punished" myself emotionally pretty badly.

Things were fine after that... I didn't have anybody after me like that. But recently, this guy. I think I just wanted to know that he liked me, but I could never do more than flirt. That's how it changed me. I even feel guilty for just flirting. I feel slutty.

I would agree that cheating MAY not be the end of the relationship. However, in my case it is. I hold marriage in a high standard when I took my vows. I was also gaining a best friend to share my life with. I can forgive but I can't forget so I will find someone who has the same morals and values.

I would think that most guys would lose weight but that probably is due to the fact that a majority of the women cook. (I know it is a stereotype, but probably true). I have more gray hair than my dad when he was this age, is it due to the stress and changes probably. Look at all the presidents after they have been in office. (I know cheating spouses is a lot different than the Presidency)

My daughter has no clue why we are getting a divorce. She is just as nieve as me. Her dress hasn't changed, though with kids these days I won't complain if it is more conservative. I think we are having a closer relationship and I hope I can pass on my family values.

I don't see my wife much but have not noticed any physical changes more psychological changes. ie: withdrawn, confrontational, being the victim, etc.

Maggie-if you have any other questions ask away.

[QUOTE=Quote (LadyOfLucidDepths @ June 06 2005,11:39)]Wally i noticed your... comment about not giving 100% of yourself.. isnt that cheating... Yeah sure thats "cheating" in a way, but least thats something between the 2 of you. that can be worked on right away... for most people cheating.. can't be worked on, for me it can't. i dont know about others.[/QUOTE]
Actually, that was somewhat my point. In my mind something that is "just between the 2 of you" is where the important stuff really is!

If you click over to the "monogomy thread" you'll see that I'm trying (quite unsuccessfully I'm afraid lol) to get to an additive approach to relationships, not subtractive. In the subtractive mode we tend think our relationship is successful as long as our partner isn't doing certain things.

I am not promoting cheating. I am suggesting that "not cheating" is the wrong priority. I want to understand my love's deepest feelings and share them and have her share mine. If I feel what she feels... and know how my actions affect her feelings... truly love her... I think it's going to be pretty hard to do the wrong thing. We still might, and if/when we do we're gonna go back to the "us" and see what happened, why we "lost" or missed the connection and, as she would say, "climb out of this hole together."

To suggest that "I can live with anything except 'cheating'" is, to me, the same as saying one's rules are more important than one's partner. ("I'll love you as long as you don't dip your wick in someone else.")

Probably still off topic, but I also get uncomfortable with predicting human behavior based on surveys and antecdotal evidence. I maintain that "cheating" (defined as some form of sex outside the relationship) does not necessarily mean the end of the relationship, weight change, or more gray hair!

Maggies, to answer your questions in more detail yes I have changed. I am 6'2" and was 230lbs, I am now down to about 205. I now have to cook (or go out) for myself and my daughter. You can only eat so much spaghetti and burgers on the grill.

My 14 year old daughter picks out my clothes at the store so I don't look like a geek. I hope no more hair falls out and it has been turning salt/pepper for a couple of years now. Never was a smoker, don't know about my eyes.

Before I got married I was a bar hound (not sleeping around) just in a different bar every night of the week. I have found myself going out to the bars about once a week. I try not to have any beer at the house as I can see that an easy routine to fall into and just get plastered.

The burdens that were on two people now I am faced with so it is stressful. I work out at the gym a minimum of 5 days a week.

I kept my feelings pretty close and can only see this exagerating it. I also have concerns about being alone and not sharing my life with someone. My dad had a heart attack and stroke at 40 and I will be turning 40 next month.

Also, you know who your true friends are, they are the ones that call you up, send you an email just to check up on you. Before, I wouldn't ask for help doing something and now I will ask for their assistance.

My wife told a mutual friend of ours that maybe I will be a better person thru this (she was the one that cheated). I truly believe that I will and she won't be the one to benefit from it.

Sad as this is.. i see cheating as black and white, to me you either do it or you dont. *waits for the bashing* yes there is 3 sides to the story, but it initially goes to the 2 that matter that could be the man and mistress.. could be the man and wife.. etc.
Wally i noticed your... comment about not giving 100% of yourself.. isnt that cheating... Yeah sure thats "cheating" in a way, but least thats something between the 2 of you. that can be worked on right away... for most people cheating.. can't be worked on, for me it can't. i dont know about others.

No doubt, being cheated on is kinda like taking a shot to the stomach when u dont' expect it.

You can't breath, it hurts where your heart was, and it almost seems that your brain-wiring is all misfiring.

Why? Well, most of the posts here have covered that in far better ways than i could improve upon - however, i think it's almost genetic.

WHen someone you love (and u think loves you) does something like cheat, it rips the "wiring" of your emotions and body out from your brain. Kinda like a telephone operator yankin all those wires from the machine that connects one call to the other.

The bad news is, for a while, you are all fucked up, and like maggie said, have covered the full spectrum of emotions.

All that said, i'm also a practical guy, and there's ALWAYS two sides to every story. Now, i'm not sure Maggie's gonna get her hubby to post on here, but from her posts he seems pretty cavalier about the whole thing. LIke, "hey, i was drunk, horney, and you said NO to sex for 3 days in a row."

I mean, unless i'm reading this wrong, Maggie's the one all upset, and she's not told us how he felt after.

The answer to your question of CAN you get past this cheating and STAY with your husband? OF COURSE!

I will say, that this is a GOOD time to try counseling. It's too emotional, too personal, too intense to try and fix on your own.

My partner cheated on me 4 years ago, we worked thru it, and have been togther for a total of 8 years now.

Why? Because we'd invested alot of ourselves in our relationship and i wasn't going to jsut give all that up without expending effort to repair it. But, that's me.

Survey after survey tells us that most marriage are broken up over MONEY and/or SEX.

I will say this, i don't believe the majority of humans can be monogamous. This is MY OPINION, but decades of divorce rates between 50-75% bear out my point.

I know I, like wally, may have taken this thread down a different road, but, i think it has alot to do with Maggie's post.
Anyone else's thoughts on monogamy?

[QUOTE=Quote (thetease13 @ June 04 2005,20:37)]So all I will say is that being on this side of it all changes how you see things as well.  Before it, I used to think all people who cheated were lying dogs (whether men or women) and were doing it just because they could.  But now, I know that's not the case.  Lots of things can play into factor as to why a man or woman cheats.  Not everyone does it for the hell of it.[/QUOTE]
Actually, Tease, I think you bring an interesting perspective into the discussion.

We would like "cheating" to be very black and white... it's anything but. I'm always intrigued by how people define cheating, partly because we think our definitions of cheating are about our partner... when they're really about us.

Everyone is quick to condemn somebody having sex outside a relationship... but how about this? What if someone just isn't giving 100% of themself to the relationship? Are they not cheating their partner? What about the person who doesn't have sex, but fully enjoys someone else in some other intimate way?

What we seem to miss, I think, is that trust is about at least three people and an important component of trust is trusting ourselves with our partner. There is no universal law that says we will (or even can) be 100% of what another person needs 100% of the time. Most of the energy we spend worrying about cheating would be better spent working on ourselves and our relationships.

Off topic? Maybe... but I think everything requires context. One of the questions that might need to be asked here is how we want "cheating" to affect us... that is within the realm of our ability.

Very well said Finewine!

[QUOTE=Quote ] I am wanting to know how it changed your soul. [/QUOTE]
It changes the way you look at yourself.
It changes the way you trust others.
It challenges your ability to forgive.
It challenges your ability to think of others before yourself.
It teaches you alot about your pride and selfishness.
It challenges your perception of love and what love really is.

I can elaborate on all of those in their own separate threads. PM if you like.

[QUOTE=Quote ]Is it possible to stay the same person you where before ?[/QUOTE]
Now, the crucial thing of change for me would be tied up in the question, "Will I forgive him?"  Not Can I or should I forgive him, but Will I forgive him?

There are only 2 possible choices to that question each with its own consequences.
To forgive him requires a death to self. Am I willing to put self to death and make that sacrifice or not?

After that question comes "How do I make sure this does not happen again either in the same relationship or a new one?"

There are many choices for the answer to that question each leading to its own challenges and consequences but each requiring that we take a hard look at ourselves in the mirror and realize that we can never be the same as we were.  What do we want to make of ourselves? Which is the right path to choose that is best for us?
In my choices that I make I hope that I change for the better and not stay the same lest the same thing happen all over again.
Discussing those choices would be another tangent as well.

[QUOTE=Quote ]If it has changed you I'd like to know how you are dealing with the "new" person you are now. [/QUOTE]
I look at my new self as knowing myself better making sure the old things I like that are of goodness and virtue remain and the old things I don't like are pruned and discarded.

[QUOTE=Quote ]How do others view the "new" you. [/QUOTE]
It really doesn't matter how others view me, what is important is how I view myself.

[QUOTE=Quote ]If it has not changed you why ? [/QUOTE]
If it has not changed you, then you are not looking close enough in the mirror and you are deceiving yourself.

[QUOTE=Quote ]I believe we are always changing whom we are, however major events make cheating or being cheated on make the largest changes most rapidly. [/QUOTE]

I believe that change only comes when we are prompted to action because of some discomfort to self.
I believe that we cannot change who we intrinsically are. We must stay true to the fingerprint of that identity for the utmost happiness.  I do believe that we can work in our lives to come to fully understand who we intrinsically are and in that understanding know how to better relate to those around us having the understanding such that we are free to now see the world from their eyes instead of just my own.

I will say this off tangent a bit..
I think Rawbob said it very well in a post once that a relationship is about taking on the responsibility of sharing passion and intimacy of mind, spirit and body with your partner...

The day to day grind of life can eliminate that sharing simply from the exhaustion of the grind and so it must be WILLED by the mind to make sure in some way, big or small, that the passion, intimacy and cherishing of each other is made known and reaffirmed by BOTH partners to each other.... That requires a conscious action by each of us, an understanding between us in open vunerable communication, that the other cannot do for us, but that we have to will ourselves to do to keep the passion and intimacy in the giving in balance.

I would have agreed with tease13 that there is a reason for the cheater, until I was the Cheatee.

Pleople should get out of the relationship/marriage if they want to sleep around.

i think being cheated on definitely changes you...it doesnt matter to me why someone tries to justify it.. they still do it.. thats the bottom line, and that really makes me wanna judge someones character...i believe  all that try to justify it.. maybe are feeling guilty.. but thats an observation not really a belief i guess.
like oberon said.. the whole trusting others...really that gets messed up ahahah i've never cheated and i plan to keep it that way. i dont want to subject myself to that kinda guilt...
or.. "lower" myself.. to hurt someone in that way, because i know how it feels and it ainttttt that great! lol
it really has changed my soul and how i view others. Others view me well.. .. this new me asssssssss well alot more cold and they realise i trust really no one..

Well, I've never been cheated on nor have I cheated. However, I have been on the side of the one who they cheated with. And I'm sure that just by saying what I'm about to say will start a fight in this thread and forgive me if it does. It's not my intention to hijack your thread with people who want to argue with me about this.
So all I will say is that being on this side of it all changes how you see things as well. Before it, I used to think all people who cheated were lying dogs (whether men or women) and were doing it just because they could. But now, I know that's not the case. Lots of things can play into factor as to why a man or woman cheats. Not everyone does it for the hell of it.

Maggie, that is a great question. I am going thru the change now. I don't think you can stay the same person if you were the person cheated on. I question whether the cheater could change or they keep on doing it in every relationship.

I would say trust is the biggest change. For myself after 16 years of marriage (which I thought was going good) how do you let someone new into your life and know that they will be faithful.

I'm fine with the new person as I have always held high standards for morality, honesty and marriage.

I don't think others have seen the "new" me. Probably due to keeping emotions/feelings more guarded.

I agree that we are always changing some for the better and some for the worst as we run across different situations in our life.

I think it makes you a lot less trusting of others in general. You sort of feel like if someone who said they loved you will do that to you, then anybody might.

I think most people do get over it eventually. I think I have, but, then, I do know that I don't trust people as easily as I used to even today.

I don't think you took the thread down another road.
I think your description is very visual and accurate.

Now your last question may take the thread down another road.

See new thread