virgin or not

[kingron]

I've never been with a women only men so does that make me a virgin if it does then I guess I'll die a virgin cause I'll never have sex with a woman

[nuttychick]

Are you serious???
or just taking the piss???


Ps.. I have never slept with a woman ... Am I a virgin?

[Tony Trout]

A virgin is identified as someone who has never had penetrative sexual intercourse with either a male or female. Since I'm assuming you've had penetrative sexual intercourse with a male (which I think, in itself, is wrong and disgusting) then you're not a virgin.

[Feynman]

Wow and bigotry Raises it ugly head. Virginity is mostly subjective anyways. Some definitions say you are not and a few say you are. According to strict biology sex is defined by the intentional transmission of genetic material for reproduction. So if you always us a condom even if you are having intercourse with the opposite gender it may not be considered sex and thus could still be a virgin. The point is it is just a random label that does not mean a lot. If you want to be a virgin then you are if not then your not. It does not really matter in the end.

[dancingdoc2]

> Wow and bigotry Raises it ugly head.

Bigotry, not at all. The problem is not what Kingron said; rather, how he said it.

> Virginity is mostly subjective anyways. Some definitions say you are not and a few say you are.

Yes. In Western cultures where girls and women are physically more active, the hymen can erode away quite early in life as a result of participating in sports and other activities. Because of this, we tend to take her word as to whether or not she is a virgin. This is not the case in some Middle Eastern cultures. There, a girl/woman is often examined by a village or family elder to make a physical determination.

Originally Posted by Tony Trout

A virgin is identified as someone who has never had penetrative sexual intercourse with either a male or female.

Tony is correct.

> According to strict biology sex is defined by the intentional transmission of genetic material for reproduction. So if you always us a condom even if you are having intercourse with the opposite gender it may not be considered sex and thus could still be a virgin.

I have heard this declaration only one other time. I believe this is someone's attempt to stretch the facts in an attempt to hold onto what is obviously not the case. The key determination of virginity in any culture is whether or not a penis has penetrated either the vagina or anus of the sexual partner.

> The point is it is just a random label that does not mean a lot.

OH! Many women will disagree with you on point, others perhaps will agree with you; however, it is wrong to presume this is always the case.

> If you want to be a virgin then you are if not then your not. It does not really matter in the end.

WRONG.

Hymens come in various shapes, sizes, thicknesses, and, hole patterns. It is possible, although uncommon, to have penetration without physically damaging the hymen. In such instances, a woman is no longer a virgin, even if the evidence is otherwise.

If two Bi- or Gay individuals engage in anal intercourse, how do we determine if one or both are virgins? Again, we have only the person's word.

[Feynman]

Originally Posted by Tony Trout

Since I'm assuming you've had penetrative sexual intercourse with a male (which I think, in itself, is wrong and disgusting) then you're not a virgin.

This is actually what i was referencing as offensive, I'm openly bi and here this kind of subtle bigotry all the time.

Virginity is still a social label. The hymen can break through may activity. The lake of a hymen dose not really change anything. I have a friend who is a lesbian and has never had sex with a man. is she a virgin because she has never been penetrated by a penis. i would not say so and neither would she. Yes by a common definition of virginity he is not a virgin. the point is more that at the end of the day, it just does not matter.

The whole reason virginity ever became a big deal in society was to identify offspring. Something that is not even a concern in homosexual relationships. In a time when there was no effective birth control and no way of determining father hood. the only way that you could be sure that a boy was yours was for your wife to be a virgin when you got married. In modern western society it no longer serves this purpose and is mostly a religious relic.

[ravishing]

Originally Posted by Tony Trout

A virgin is identified as someone who has never had penetrative sexual intercourse with either a male or female. Since I'm assuming you've had penetrative sexual intercourse with a male (which I think, in itself, is wrong and disgusting) then you're not a virgin.

So, let me get this straight. You think sex before marriage is a sin, and homosexuality is a disgusting sin, but you have no problem with anally penetrating a woman or being anally penetrated by a woman with a strap on. Now, I know for certain that sodomy is a sin in all sects of Christianity. I think it's safe to say the church would frown on pegging (woman with a strap on) if it had existed at the time the bible was written. So, why is male/male intercourse disgusting and wrong? A woman's rectum is no cleaner than a man's.

[Feynman]

Originally Posted by ravishing

So, let me get this straight. You think sex before marriage is a sin, and homosexuality is a disgusting sin, but you have no problem with anally penetrating a woman or being anally penetrated by a woman with a strap on. Now, I know for certain that sodomy is a sin in all sects of Christianity. I think it's safe to say the church would frown on pegging (woman with a strap on) if it had existed at the time the bible was written. So, why is male/male intercourse disgusting and wrong? A woman's rectum is no cleaner than a man's.

Oh, but it is so much fun to use ancient teaching to justify oppressing minority's.

[ravishing]

Nothing irritates me more than homophobic men who like anal sex, truly. If someone is going to be an ignorant bigot, at least be consistent. You do not get to oppress a minority on sexual grounds, ESPECIALLY when you can't even follow your own standards.

P.S. Tony, if you're catholic, oral sex is also a sin.

[RedRoses]

If you want to be a virgin then you are if not then your not. It does not really matter in the end/ (...)
Virginity is still a social label. (...)
The whole reason virginity ever became a big deal in society was to identify offspring.

Loving your posts, Feynman!
And yes: you have every right to feel offended! In fact: it really makes my blood boil to read such comments like the once Tony posted Cause this attitude is what creates intolerant environments, in which gays are even beat up. About a week ago I saw an interview with Erwin Olaf (famous photographer). He passionately commented on how the police in Amsterdam advises gays to not kiss, hold hands, etc in certain area's because gays have been attacked there: "We should not be judged because of who we love and who we f*ck! We should not be asked to hide ourselves!"

In Western cultures where girls and women are physically more active, the hymen can erode away quite early in life as a result of participating in sports and other activities. Because of this, we tend to take her word as to whether or not she is a virgin. This is not the case in some Middle Eastern cultures. There, a girl/woman is often examined by a village or family elder to make a physical determination.

WRONG, the physical activities of women in Western countries are not the reason why we "take her word".
The reason is because we respect her word!
Not to mention; because there is absolutely no physical determination, also not in Middle Eastern cultures! Just as a physician can not determine whether a man is a virgin. It is a degrading examination in which her word is ignored and she is treated more like a cow than a person. Just as showing a bloodstained sheet after the wedding night is just awful, as most of us do not bleed after our first time And it's bloody important proof, as you could be banished, mutulated and even killed in some cultures after "shaming" yourself and your family by not proofing you're a virgin. It is a crime to make a woman proof something she can not possibly proof... Even if there was "proof" possible, it should absolutely not even be considered.

Men and women all over the world should be taken by their world on whatever they did and didn't do. And people are free to choose the words they like for what it is they think they are. Although I agree on how a certain meaning can be given to the word 'virgin' from different points of view, it is also part of that freedom to give it no meaning at all.

I've never been with a women only men so does that make me a virgin if it does then I guess I'll die a virgin cause I'll never have sex with a woman

Dear Kingron, I'd suggest that you think about what 'being a virgin' or 'losing virginity' means to you. And whether you think that is to be applied on yourself. Does it have additional value to you? Does it really change you or the way you feel about yourself? Or does it not matter at all?