Questions on homophobia

[madeye]

Ok so i grew up in a small suburb and I have had little life experience with homosexuals (at least the ones who are out)

I been dating a girl whose best friend/cousin is gay and they share alot of friends.

Now a bit about myself is im much more open minded than the typical straight guy. Im very social and very open minded to new life experiences like art literature, adventure and socializing.

So its always been easy for me to be outspoken about gay rights and equality, I have very passionate views about my anti-religious/spiritual beliefs (which is not really religious more so just based on science and nature)

Not saying you cant be pro gay and religious just observing its a much easier statement to make as an atheist than a christian.

So I have become comfortable and friendly with her cousin and her friends, they are individuals who i enjoy spending time telling stories discovering similarities and difference beyond the realm of what gender we sexually prefer.

so it has been a good experience until.....

one of said mentioned friends invited me to a gathering at a bar to celebrate his birthday celebration.

I was ill advised at what i was getting myself into, i had assumed it would be a gay bar, but i felt comfort in the word bar, i was thinking it would be a classy gathering of sitting at a table buying drinks telling stories and laughing.

um not so much.....

as i enter a world of what could have easily been recording and sold as gay porn.

men were wearing as little clothing as possible, making out everywhere, dry humping every where.

and all of these friends went crazy and only wanted to dance and flirt and join the sex crazed atmosphere.

I stuck around for about 30 minutes talking to the gay friends to shy to dance, i have never felt so uncomfortable in my life and i was honest and did admit this to these people when they were asking me why i wasnt dancing.

I felt as though i didnt belong i felt like the minority being judged by all for being different and feeling uncomfortable about it, and i did find the beautiful irony of how thats the way a gay person feels when they are inside straight clubs.

Im an honest person and after i spoke to most of everyone and apologized for my hastily exit.

Im not judging the club atmosphere in itself cause i could sense the overall intense relief from its patrons of being in a place where they can be accepted for their own private sexual desires without judgment........ the problem is no matter how much i respect my friends and their lifestyle i just don't want to be in that envirement.

so anyone wanna chime in with thoughts or examples on how i could handle future situations like this, cause i don't want to lose these friends but i also want to avoid/limit being in such an uncomfortable place without being disrespectful.

I really wish i could not care about this and just make the best of every setting that life's opportunities throw my way to enjoy to the fullest. but this was simply way over my mine line of comfort.

Can i still be respectful and friendly with individuals who i consider friends even if im not comfortable with what happens behind their closed doors, i feel like an unknown homophobic part of me has been exposed and im embarrassed, and i just wonder what it is they are thinking about my reactions.

[Brandye]

There are classy gay bars or lesbian bars and there are "meet markets" not dissimilar from the places straight "twenty somethings" go to hook-up. You were in one gay bar, not all gay bars.

Not all that different from choices available to straights. I have been in charming lesbian hangouts; and I have been repulsed an left others. Being actively bi- with a primary woman relationship, I am not homophobic but would be equally offended (and have been) in heterosexual places with the same stuff going on. It is not homophobic to have good taste - just do not generalize.

[DVDBear]

Well, to be honest as a gay man I find absolutely nothing wrong with your reaction. I think it was ill advised of your friends to invite you to such a setting without at least warning you of what the atmosphere would be like. Gay bars are like straight bars; they vary from sedate to extremely uninhibited. Where I live there are queer establishments I'd have no problems inviting straight friends to for a drink or dinner and there are others that I'd never think of doing so without giving them a strong warning of what they'd be in for. Because of your acceptance your friends misjudged your comfort level and should have done the same for you. Your reaction isn't homophobic . . . . . you were placed in a situation that was socially embarrassing and made you ill at ease. Yet you are still concerned for their feelings and want to maintain these friendships. I find that very admirable.

There are countless social situations where I hang out with my straight friends that are "neutral ground" and we have a good time. My sexual orientation isn't a factor in our friendship so I see no reason to expose them to the more overt aspects of gay culture unless they tell me they're very curious or something. Your gay friends are being extremely insensitive if they don't understand the discomfort you experienced and (bare minimum) warn you what you'd be walking into if they extend another invitation for other similar environments in the future. If they're offended by your polite refusal for the reasons you've eloquently expressed the problem is theirs, not yours.

[sera300]

Hey Madeye:

I think you have to let your friends know you are more comfortable in a more sedate setting; they probably figured you are really open & nothing would offend you. Try bar hopping one night w/them have them take you to several hang outs and see the difference. The first time my friends took me out it was for shock value, went to the sleaziest of all hang outs (that was a trip and an eye opening experience) and next few times we went more up scale.

They will understand what type you are comfortable in, just get out there and find out which ones. Not all are the same! The reverse would be, would you ask one of your gay male couples to go to a hill-billy, pool-shooting bar? Nope. So the drastic bars are best avoided.

[madeye]

yeah i wasnt trying to generalize that all gay bars have a sex crazed anti clothing atmosphere.

I just wasnt expecting this one to be that way, i was a bit aggravated that my gf did not give me better details of the atmosphere i was entering. but life goes on, she apologized and from what you guys are saying if these guys are cool people they should completely understand my reaction.

I was just wondering at where i stand as a friend of theirs. I was just wondering if it would appear as me being disrespectful and close minded if i were to pass on spending a Friday night with them in said "meet market" type of gay clubs.

Thanks for the input.

I really have no one to ask about this kind of thing.

[DVDBear]

Perhaps your girlfriend can be somewhat of a go-between and explain it to them if they seem bewildered why you acted that way at the bar. But it shouldn't be necessary; it appears that maybe it was your girlfriend who overestimated your comfort level and her friends should totally understand what happened. Like I said before if it's friendship they're after they shouldn't have any problems hanging with you and your gf at more neutral places.

[madeye]

Thanks for the input, dvdbear.

I dont think much needs to be said, i was speaking to my friend earlier and he was already talking about the next place we should hang out and that i would like it much better.

[Oohlala]

I don't think this is a gay issue.

Like others have said, straight or gay, all bars have different environments. I have been in plenty of non-gay bars and witnessed drunken overweight straight bikers with beards like santa stripping on table tops. It had nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the people in the bar.

Maybe the real issue is that perhaps you aren't 100% comfortable with gay people?

Would you have been more comfortable if you were in a straight bar surrounded by straight people flirting and girls dressing sexy?

[madeye]

I have been to a party that was all gay people, and i was comfortable and fine with it. I introduced myself to everyone, a few people even flirted with me just cause i was the only straight guy at the party. It was a classy social gathering that i enjoyed.

And you know what i dont buy into this Politically correct nonsense about being comfortable with every facet of someones life.

Whats wrong with respecting someone as an individual and being honest about what parts of their private life you may not be comfortable about knowing the details.

people have different life experiences and they may like or dislike different aspects of someone private life more or less than the other.

Some people are not comfortable with my religious views, it doesnt mean they disrespect me its just a part of their life experience that has made them uncomfortable with my very different experiences.

screw being politically correct, there are some aspects of peoples private life i want to know about and some aspects i dont want to know about. Thats the way it goes, and i think most gay men would say that they dont expect most straight men to be 100% comfortable with their lifestyle and all they expect is to be respected just as the same anyways.

So no im not 100% comfortable with homosexuality, and i wont apologize for that and i wont think anything less of myself if that never changes. Life is imperfect i respect individuals who respect me that does not me im going to automatically have expectations for every single person to be comfortable with every private aspect of my life.

[DVDBear]

I don't expect (nor, frankly, care) if someone is comfortable with the intimate aspects of my sexuality. I think Madeye is right that it's taking P.C. too far if it's somehow homophobic to consider homosexual sex "icky" or whatever. I can understand that . . . . hey, you're straight! LOL! And I can say seeing certain hetero sex practices don't do anything for my appetite either. Same deal, no big surprise. It has nothing to do with my friendship with another person unless it's made part of it. Under most situations that would be inappropriate.