Gay

[Dirrty LiL Duckie]

There is NOTHING wrong with being gay. at all.

[oberon]

You are quite right in theory, dominicanbabe. *Straight men, by and large, love the idea of lesbians-at least the popular sex movie protrayal of lesbians. *What they really want is a woman who is bisexual.

Most lesbians I know (and I know quite a few.lol) wouldn't even consider having sex with a man in the room, let alone, actually have sex with a man. *This can really cause alot of them trouble since a man gets turned on by the idea of lesbians and then angry when they aren't interested. *Straight women aren't likely to be so upset that a man is gay that they attack and/or rape him. *The same cannot be said of straight men and lesbians.

What I want to know from this post are reasons why a large part of society finds the idea of two people of the same sex having a sexual relationship so distasteful that they feel the need to enact laws to keep it from happening. * When society as a group creates laws, they are usually trying to protect people from some form of harm. *What I want to know is:

How is telling someone who they can and can't love or form a partnership with protecting anyone? *How is homosexual behavior harmful to those who participate in it? *How is allowing it to happen harmful, at all, to those who aren't even homosexual?

I continue to be amazed and gladdened at the positive response this topic has received. *I want to keep thanking you all for any response you care to give. *

P.S. *Marselluss is quite correct when it comes to lesbian appearance. The lesbians I know bear more resemblance, intentionally, to Bruce Willis than to Demi Moore. *In fact, a lesbian friend of mine did male drag one Halloween (she saved and glued on her male roommate's beard/moustache and wore sunglasses), a construction worker; she came on to me, and I found him/her HOT! lol

[Marselluss]

I think the topic gay/lesbians contains way more that "visually appearling o not appealing". I think has also to do with people's fears AND rejection, yes rejection.
Let's say a man is interested in a woman and she is a lesbian, but he first didn't know, then telling him that she is a lesbian can be seen by him "you are not good enough for me" and not as it actually is "you are not attractive for me, because I'm looking for something different, but you are still an ok person".
see the difference? some might take it as a huge rejection and by this those agressive emotions come into play.

Why have many hetero guys problems with gays?
I think because they seem them as "not real men" (if they look feminine), but I could also imagine that they are afraid of them, because they are probably way more intouch with their emotions and other things as well, they have easier access to sex etc. So basically the gay men could be seen as superior to the hetero man, because he basically has what the hetero man would love ot have but can't get:
- being more in touch with his emotions > can more easily talk about problems and doesn't have to feel that he is no real man when he is sad etc (of course generalization but you get what I mean)
- sex! it's well known that many gay men have many sex partners in their lifes, so far I know all you have to do is to go to a special toilet or some places and you will find quickly somebody who is willing to have sex. I have seen once in a movie where a gay man explained the gay world to a hetero man: "imagine a forest and a lot of very sexy women are walking around, when you walk by they check you and and make obvious moves to show they want sex, you can pick the one you want, an no they don't want money, they really want sex". Considering this you can say that prositiution is offering to the hetero men what gay man get for free: sex at any time they want.

[Greendale]

I'm not gay, but I find nothing wrong with it. Gay people can be cool people to talk to and straight people can get along with easily as close friends.

I think people who hate gays take them way too seriously.

Whatever makes people happy, that's good.

[oberon]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Greendale @ May 02 2004,18:23)]I think people who hate gays take them way too seriously.

And here I thought this topic dead and buried...lol. *Glad to see I was wrong.

Greendale, I like the tone of your post very much. *If you could just clarify this one statement.

[Greendale]

What I mean by that post, some people who hate/despise gay people are the type of people who can't accept others as human beings. I mean, how would anti-gay people know that gay people are bad when they don't even talk to them? anti-gay people think gays are evil only because they have relations with the same sex. Oh please. If people who hate gays would actually walk up to a gay person and talk to them, straight people would actually find gay people cool people to talk to.

[oberon]

Thanks for taking the time to straighten that out for me. I thought you probably meant something like that. I've just heard far too many people make comments about taking gay people or gay issues seriously and THEY meant, more or less, that they (gay people/issues) were a joke. Sort of the argument against gay marriage. Why should gays be allowed to marry? After all, they aren't a "real" couple. Grrrr....

[TexasGuy]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (oberon @ Dec. 07 2003,22:05)]As you can probably tell, I'm gay and no I don't think there is anything wrong with it.

Okay, I'm gonna go out on an unpopular limb here...

You say you don't think there "... is anything wrong with it."

The question I would pose back to you, then, is what is your standard or criteria of what is "right" or "wrong?" Because in my opinion your entire argument rests on this.

You say that people who believe differently than you are therefore guilty of "religious discrimination," and yet you by your own admission are intolerant of that different viewpoint (that being gay is wrong).

If you're asking whether homosexuality is harmful to the ecosystem, that's one thing (why would it be??), but if you're asking if some people believe that it is morally wrong, that's another, and the second question presupposes belief in a moral code of some kind. You may subscribe to one, someone else may hold to another, but I don't think either side should be intolerant of the other's convictions.

If you're okay with it and feel confident of your stance, why should it matter so much to you what other people think about your opinion anyways? I don't worry whether or not someone else is critical of my choices if I'm sure they're right for me.

Bottom line -- if you expect others to respect and be accepting of your lifestyle and beliefs, you've got to be accepting of theirs as well, even if theirs is that you are wrong. Otherwise, you're also guilty of intolerance. Believing that only your opinion is correct is the very essence of religious intolerance and exclusivism.

Just my 2 cents, and please don't take offense to it.

[Rawbob]

I'll go out on another limb, Texas guy....you ask,
what is your standard criteria for right and wrong?

To give the "simple" response - it's about RIGHTS.

At the Stonewall Riots, June 27, 1969 in New York city, a handfull of gay men stood up to the police who were raiding the bar and declared "Gay Power." That started the "Gay Rights" movement and

Over the last 30 years, our American society, along with state, federal and local institutions have had to face the reality that EQUALITY must extend to all - without reguard to how popular that given issue is.

Whenver a line is drawn, there will be people on both sides...and only time, awarness, education and exposure will help to break the emotional and even religious divisions.

So, for me, it must be about EQUALITY.

Take for instance, the issue of gay marriage. Check out this story that appeard in our local paper this sunday: http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes....em+part

I think this helps frame the overall issue of gay rights. While it speaks specifically to marriage, the reality of how our government can and does codify classes of people should give us all pause.

Equality is a right - not right or wrong.

[oberon]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (TexasGuy @ May 04 2004,08:10)]Just my 2 cents, and please don't take offense to it. *

Good post, Texasguy. *I certianly am NOT offended.

First of all, I am not really looking for any kind of acceptance or validation from this thread. *I got THAT all on my own. *What I'm interested in is- apart from religious reasons- why people would think being gay is bad. (the ecosystem reference was sort of sarcasm...) *

Regarding the religious discrimination that I mention, I'm sorry I may not have been clear enough. *I have NO problem with opposing views. *The problem comes when a religious majority want to make those views law. *Take the marriage issue for instance. *It is a religious majority that thinks that marriage should be denied to gays. *My religious beliefs don't encompass that. *So why, just because they are a majority, should their religious tenets be more important than mine. *Gay marriage would force nothing on anyone. *Denying gay marriage forces millions of people to suffer under other's religious opinions.

Feel free to keep offering your two cents. *As I said, good post.