Update from my last post...I seem to have gotten over the whole not having sex thing...perhaps a little too much :P
I am not talking about any lover in particular, but both pre and post having sex (but foreplay instead then), I have found a great number of guys just don't get the female anatomy. As in mainly rushing things too quickly before aroused, not sensing hot spots, not finding clit, or too rough.
Now I have tried non-verbal (as in moving hand, slightly exaggerated moans and body movements etc when is feeling good), as well as being a bit more vocal ("kiss/bite my neck", "slow down" etc) ...some get the hint...some do not..
I have found this website really useful, and have learnt a lot. I try really hard to please, and learn things, and pick up new ideas, from different posts, partners, or the odd moan from stroking somewhere unexpected! I love to learn. I know sex is a two way thing, but I feel some guys don't want to learn I guess. Correction; think they are better then they are, and wouldn't damage ego by asking, being told or reading up on the subject..
I guess just a bit ignorant.
What I am asking is how to get the average, slightly fumbling guy to LEARN, or at least want to learn? I would love it if more read this sight! Have often thought about suggesting it to people in the past, as it is interesting, but I figure they may think I am saying they are bad in bed if i were to do that, or suggest "How bout this" or "i like that" etc..maybe I am just being too sensitive on their behalf..
...if only they told us this website in sex ed...I think men and women would be a lot happier and more open about sex!
You bring up some major reasons why this venue exists, what we battle ever day (male ego) and the difficulty encountered when trying to entice males of the species why it is so important to learn all they can and not just think that females of the species are wired just like them therefore what is good for the gander must be good for the goose so to speak.
> What I am asking is how to get the average, slightly fumbling guy to LEARN, or at least want to learn?
Appeal to his greed.
Appeal to his sense of adventure.
I often tell my dance students who have prior dance experience that what I am about to teach in not intended to replace what s/he already knows and does; rather, to add to what they already do. This approach does not make them feel inferior because it sidesteps what they may be doing wrong altogether and quietly replaces it with new things that they will hopefully embrace as being easier and more interesting. The old ways will simply fall by the wayside as they discover better methods.
You might try this approach with a stubborn or hesitant male partner. Keep in mind that making love is not what we do to each other; it is what we do with and for each other in partnership. Every week we have guys writing in asking what I can do to please my g/f/wife/s-o, even more. So, with the proper approach we are willing to learn.
-doc
If his ego is damaged by receiving intruction from his partner on how to make things better then he is missing a major component of being a good lover: an open mind.
Never be afraid to tell your partner what you need and want. While not having sex you can start a sex conversation and ask what he likes. Now that you have his attention tel him what you like and need. Bring up the idea of an experimental session in which orgasm is not the goal as much as learning about each others' hot spots and responses. Of course if one or both have an orgasm then that's fine. Buy one of the many good sex manuals that are out there and go through it cover to cover together. It's fun, sexy and usually leads to good, better, best sex. If he seems offended or is incorrigible your best bet would be to find someone else.
Great answers above. Doc and dlb are the guys so I'd never try to contradict them, but there is one point both of them skimmed that I think is important.
[QUOTE=springfever;275901]Now I have tried non-verbal (as in moving hand, slightly exaggerated moans and body movements etc when is feeling good), as well as being a bit more vocal ("kiss/bite my neck", "slow down" etc) ...some get the hint...some do not..[/QUOTE]
Some guys think too higly of themselves to learn. Some are actually proud of not caring (I know that doesn't make sense :confused: ). Maybe they're just not worth it?
If you're looking for a failsafe method to not hurt their ego, guiding them is probably the way to go.
Also, if you know what you want, do it (going on top during coitus is probably the most obvious thing). Most guys should get the hint.
For those who don't get non-subtle the hints, you shouldn't be scared to tell them. If they really want to please you they'll try to improve no matter what you did to their ego. And they will improve. Automatic free ego boost. Don't worry.
If they don't want to improve/please you, it's not worth trying anyway. Dump.
Now for the personal story:
Back in the day when I was young innocent and inexperienced (a year ago), I stumbled into a "friends with benefits" relationship. My previous partner (first girlfriend) was more experienced than me (I was a virgin) but not very assertive. I did what I could, but frankly, I sucked.
My new FWB did the exact opposite: her on top, told me what she wanted, guided (more implicitly than explicitely). It did me wonders, and I very quickly got to pleasing her (which I didn't with my girlfriend), and took control (as that is what she wanted).
Moral: guide him, and do what you can to please yourself. If he's more than half half worth it he'll improve.
Thank you for the response.
[QUOTE]Appeal to his greed.
Appeal to his sense of adventure.[/QUOTE]
I think this is a good idea, put things in a more positive sense that may appeal to him. Maybe will try to bring up those sort of conversations at some point; maybe I'm just too shy talking about it at times :/ Getting better though :P
I guess in the same way could get things to slow down...for instance, instead of "slow down" or moving his hand away...kind of negative
"I wan't you to tease me so much, that I'm begging for you to touch me. I'll want you so much more..make me beg.."
...more positive, plus initiates dirty talk & more submissive role, plus lengthens foreplay :)
...just need more guts to be direct in what I want.
Maybe this applies in wanting oral too...I guess I should just ask for it? Esp if it's the sort of guy that wouldn't be shy to ask for things roles reversed! ...why should I feel bad asking for that if he is going to?
[QUOTE]Bring up the idea of an experimental session in which orgasm is not the goal as much as learning about each others' hot spots and responses.[/QUOTE]
This is a good idea, think I will do this :)
[QUOTE]Some guys think too higly of themselves to learn. Some are actually proud of not caring (I know that doesn't make sense ). Maybe they're just not worth it?[/QUOTE]
This is sooo true. Have been in situations from hinting things I like to literally spelling out...several times, and they still scarcely if ever would do them. Just simple things, like kissing my neck..such a turn on ;)
...REALLY?! ...tell you how sensetive my neck is, how it's one of my hotspots...nothing...I tell you to kiss my neck, I moan in ecstasy when you do...briefly..I tell you how much I like it, and quiver whenever the slightest touch or breth there..nothing!
....Are you really that stupid and ignorant or do you just not give a damn about my pleasure..?
Either way, soon learn not someone you want in your bed yet alone relashionship if they are that selfish/stupid..
Maybe a little harsh, but I think EEK is often right in that sex can tell you a lot about someone!
As for your personal experiences Gaby, I understand what you are saying...I guess often the guy is way more sexually experienced in terms of numbers or years, so like I said...I guess sometimes I think they think they know it all
...and sometimes they know a lot from that ;)
...but sometimes...well I think it was a comment by Doc once that "practise makes permanent" ...I think that is so true. If a guy has happened to be with loads of girls that didn't know what they wanted/to shy to say/different sexually to myself; then he is going to a misconception of what is "good" (or at least in my mind) ...and kind of stick with it
...of course the opposite can be true if he has been with people who knew what they wanted/similar sexually to me....:P
As regards my use of the word "experience":
As far as I can tell there isn't a huge correlation between "experience" (interpreted as how much sex one has had and with how many people) and "experience" (how good one is). When I was talking about my girlfriend, it is the first that meant. As regards to my FWB, the second.
About your comment on harshness:
Do be harsh, not to those who are bad in bed, but to those who you know will not improve, and do not care if they don't.
Some people are smart, perceptive or simply nice. They will improve while the stupid, insensitive and uncaring will remain bad.
If someone has a huge ego that you are scared to hurt, chances are that they are of the second kind.
This has turned into a great thread. Perhaps a mod can make it a STICKY because of so many positive insightful contributions.
That's easy. Make it worth his while. You want something from him so give him something in return. Do something out of the ordinary for him.
If it makes you feel any better, I wanted to learn and I tried to get better with my last serious ex. She was terrible in bed. I wouldn't call myself great but definitely not bad either. The problem was I wanted to explore new things and keep improving and she was never comfortable enough with herself to do it. She would pretty much just lay there and complain when I did something wrong but then refused to show me how to do better. Just saying it goes both ways. Eventually I realized there wasn't anything wrong with me, there was with her. Still, I would have liked to have learned more.
Did someone call?
Okay first thing - HIS/HER ego is HIS/HER problem. If you can't handle losing then you shouldn't be playing the game. Your sense of self-worth has to come from within to be of any use.
Next - being 'experienced' entails more than just' insert tab A into slot B and repeat'. It also means more than just 'being open to trying new thngs'. Being 'experienced' means ACCEPTANCE of the good, the bad, and the indifferent both of yourself and others and working with that.
If you truly wish to improve as a lover, you will seek to improve yourself as a human being first, which is done by sincere and honest introspection and can be damned unpleasant as well as difficult, and then seek to improve your abilities as a lover by paying close attention to each partner.
I do not expect the first time with a man to be any 'good'. What I am looking for is 'willingness'. Does my sitting naked cross-legged on the bed being mischievous get the proper smiling and laughing response? Is he coming to me with fire in his eyes, joy in his heart and laughter in his soul?
If not then its game over.
I am not sure why protecting a guy's feelings in this respect is regarded as quite so important. What are we (and they!) so afraid will happen if they think they didn't rock our world?
In every other close freindship in my life I can tell a pal what I think of them and maybe they don't like my opinion but we carry on. They don't need my validation, but are secure enough to listen to my input, and I don't need to be terrified of them flipping out.
Good freindships are like that, so why shouldn't a romantic relationship be even more secure and open? Isn't it a pretty big red flag if we can't talk to them frankly about sex even after having had it?
I wonder if it's more to do with your insecurity than his. He'll either try and improve or won't. If you're afraid he won't, you're essentially afraid of being single on account of having to dump him, aren't you? To use the general "you".
The other thing to note is that many guys really are not creatures of subtlety! You may really have to spell it out to have your message understood.
Actually I love it when guys tell me, trying to get with me, they will "rock my world". They usually have no idea how high that bar has been set. I tend to reply:
"Oh really? Do you think you can?" with enthusiasm.
Somehow, I never hear from them again.
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I am a man and all I know today was shown to me through lovers and girlfriends, hell it would be boring if you did not listen to them so as you can please them or am I old fashioned ?
I'd like to respond to this one the way it SHOULD be handled...: a man will be amazing in bed if he is the type of man that cares enough to try hard.. That man will read and watch and listen and experiment and practice.. IMO you have 2 options.. Tell him to learn what the fuck to do.. Pop his ego and wait to see if he grows back with a better stronger more caring ego.. OR replace him.. 90+% of men are sexually retarded.. If they are on here asking questions and educating themselves then you've got yourself a good man.. Life is too short to waste your time trying to change a man.. It confuses him and frustrates you.. Go get one that's worth your time babe :)