Marriage

[adam]

Hey everyone.

Lately the topic of marriage has popped up in a lot of the places I like to read. Specifically, whether or not marriage is in everyone's future.

I have personally never had the drive to settle down, get married, have kids, and live in a house with a white picket fence. I think that, on a certain level, people's (particularly women's) collective desire to get married and have kids is based purely on what has been instilled into us through our culture since we were kids. Don't you think all those fairy tales and Disney cartoons we watched as kids where the girl finds her "prince charming" or "one true love" and gets married and lives happily ever after have had some sort of effect on us?

And, having read around this board, I find the attitude that the ultimate goal of dating should be to find someone you want to live with "forever" extremely prevalent. And I'm beginning to wonder - why?

What exactly is with everyone's want or need to get married? Is it so you can have a wedding? Is it a throwback to the fairy tales of our youth? Is it simply so that everyone buys you a lot of presents? And why is it that a traditional marriage must do, when civil/common law marriages, in many jurisdictions, carry all of the same rights, priveleges and responsibilities of church-sanctioned marriages?

For the record, I do not find the concept of finding one person you want to settle down with for the foreseeable future wrong or misguided in any way, nor do I find the concept of having a committed, monogamous relationship wrong or misguided in any way. In fact, that's sort of what I am personally aiming for. I just find it strange that, in order for a long-term relationship to be validated or made official, you have to throw an expensive party and wear an expensive piece of tetrahedral carbon on your finger.

Personally, I wouldn't mind being in a permanent state of being engaged. I just like the term "fiance". It sounds far more cultured than "boyfriend", "partner", or even "husband", for that matter.

[batman527]

I think that you come close to the actual reason, but miss the point slightly. While it is common to throw a huge party and get dressed up for the ceremony, those things are only secondary to the actual act of commiting to each other forever. It's a way for the bride and groom to acknowledge their mutual love for each other, and to publicly vow that faith and love. It's as much about the community (family and friends) recognizing and celebrating the union as it is about the two being married. For most, I would think that the legal rights and priveleges you bring up are secondary.

I'm not trying to say that this is the case for all marriages. Obviously, many people are married for "the wrong reasons". Mostly though, marriages are the communities way of recognizing the union that exists between two people.

[Brandye]

Well, read any sociology textbook and you will discover the economic benefits to society and the controlled sexual release and on and on. The average age of first marriage has been increasing and there seems to be less idealism, but more sexual experience, taken into marriage. Not too romantic. The problem with sociology is that it addresses societies and not individuals. I was certainly affected by the fairy tales and the June Beaver Cleaver image (Yes, Beaver made it to BBC-4).

I am not married, have never been married and am among the older people posting here. In the one relationship that was leading toward marriage (he died), we had already decided to have no children and settle down. We did not meet until we were 27 and were thirty when he died.

There was more pressure within my family, especially on my mother's side, toward education and profession than toward family and marriage. At some point, sexual satisfaction, in my mind, was removed from necessity to marry and even from needing a penis involved.

My guess is that the discussion towards marriage and happliy ever after is from the idealism of youth and not from the old hands. I hasten to add that the recommendations about stable relationships are equally applicable to any mature relationship, not just to getting married.

[adam]

Originally Posted by Brandye

My guess is that the discussion towards marriage and happliy ever after is from the idealism of youth and not from the old hands. I hasten to add that the recommendations about stable relationships are equally applicable to any mature relationship, not just to getting married.

But the idealism of our youth comes from the old hands. I have been educated through a Catholic school system, and marriage has always been portrayed as the be-all and end-all of relationships, and life itself (seeing as nobody wants to become a priest). I'm currently in my last year of high school, and although many of us (it seems the men moreso than the women) have dropped many of the religious notions taught to us, many of the cultural aspects still stick. Marriage is always the big one. I know of some people who, at the age of 16, plan to have "a big family" when they're older. I'm all for people living life however they choose, but I like to think that we have less important things to think about during high school than how many kids we want to have. We have marks and homework and parties and universities to think about, not becoming a stay-at-home mom a few years after dropping 50K on a post-secondary education.

I will admit, though...

I'm not trying to say that this is the case for all marriages. Obviously, many people are married for "the wrong reasons". Mostly though, marriages are the communities way of recognizing the union that exists between two people.

I have a natural aversion to commitment. This is fuel to my dislike of marriage. In addition, as you put it, "the communities' way of recognizing the union that exists between two people." I also have an aversion to letting people know things about my life (in other words, I like my privacy). This is what happens when you switch schools and never make any kind of lasting friendships with people. A lot of it is just a psychological thing on my part. I think could lead a more fulfilling life if I weren't tied down by kids and a permanent career. Call me selfish, but I'd rather keep the disposable income and go skiing in Europe every winter with a long-term girlfriend than pay tuition fees for universities. Or even do some "[insert unrealistic career here] sans frontieres" work. That would mean much more to me than raising kids.

Despite that, I still think that much of people's collective desire (or drive, or need, or want, what have you) to get married, have kids and live with the white picket fence is due to the idealism of our youth that many people simply don't recognize. I've noticed that if you ever ask someone why they are doing something, they usually answer with "because". That is usually in response to something trivial. I shudder to think of the answers people might give if they were to explain why it is that they plan to do what they plan to do with their lives.

[Luvs2plzU]

I respect your "take" on the marriage thing Adam...matter of fact I probably subscribe to it...for some people marriage is a convenience, some it is following the social norms. I have 3 daughters 22,20,19 and I've always told them to get their education,travel,do things that they can do NOW at their age, HAVE fun in life(you've only got one shot...there is NO DRESS REHEARSAL) and probably down the line you will find a mate,if you so choose to get "tied-down" with...at later age in my opinion, you will find a mate that has ideals and activities that reflect your own and the both of you can share them...pretty tough to have a family,house with white picket fence and decide that you should sell everything you have acquired and go help out in some 3rd world country...they just might not agree with your program and big trouble will ensue...enjoy life and be responsible for you actions...it doesn't work for everyone, but if you can't make yourself happy,you sure as heck won't be able to make others happy...I appreciate your thinking if it works for you!!

[pozzolane]

Very interesting discussion happening here… However it also seems quite hypocritical. Adam, you shudder when you think of how people "plan" their future family life but you also plan yours. You simply plan the extreme opposite.

It's great you're using your mind and you have priorities. In fact I think it's very important to get an education and to go traveling and have fun while you're young. But there might come a day when you will find the woman or man of your dreams and want to settle down with them.

I can't deny that there are people who never marry or settle down with someone they love in common law. But, in my humblest of opinion they live a shallow and lonely life.

I use the word shallow very delicately. I say it because love is supposed to be selfless. And when you have it you'll want to declare it publicly. Love should never remain hidden as you seek to live.

I like what batman has said in his argument. Marriage is not about gifts or money. It's a celebration for family and friends to recognize the love that exists and their commitment to one another. Couldn't have put it better myself.

This is my opinion on this matter

[sweetiez]

Hi there,
For me i been with my Fh for 2 years.
We also just had a baby.
So i guess we have "Settled down"
We are not getting married because of our daughter.
We talked about having kids and getting married way before she was even conceved.
Some people just like the whole married sceen.
If you find that "One" thats all that matters.

[sdrawkcab m'i]

From a males stand point, what is actually in it for him? Why not just stay boyfriend/girlfriend.. and never sign the papers and get married. You can live together, raise a family together, or even live in a white picket fenced house or whatever.

This way, if things do go bad, you dont have to go through the ugly process of getting divorced. And, I think for every year of marriage, you have to pay half a year of alimoney, probably varies from state to state, or your country. That amounts up to a lot of money, and why does she get to take your money? because you signed the dotted line.

From a childs and females view, expecially free loading females, it is a very good thing to get married. Because your man will pay all the bills, do all the work. Then you can divorce him, or force him divorce you and get more free money.. cha-ching! (that was my attempt at cash register opening)

I know im being stereotypical, but there is nothing you can do about it. And, now that i look back, i really don't know anything about marriage, so i could be wrong entirely, but im not even 18 yet, so i dont care.

[orchid]

for me, marriage is about making a promise in front of your family, friends, and God, that you will devote your undying love and devotion to the person who you feel you were meant for. i think people should marry only for that reason, that they are very truely and very deeply in love and want to share their lives with that person. not just because they have been in a long-term relationship and it just seems like "the next step."

furthermore, the stereotype that women just want to get married so that the man will pay the bills is complete bull. i know several couples where it is the woman who brings in most, if not all of the money.

[sdrawkcab m'i]

Originally Posted by orchid

for me, marriage is about making a promise in front of your family, friends, and God, that you will devote your undying love and devotion to the person who you feel you were meant for. i think people should marry only for that reason, that they are very truely and very deeply in love and want to share their lives with that person. not just because they have been in a long-term relationship and it just seems like "the next step."

furthermore, the stereotype that women just want to get married so that the man will pay the bills is complete bull. i know several couples where it is the woman who brings in most, if not all of the money.

So, lets say two people love each other, using your vocabulary, they have undying love, if they dont get married, none of that matters?

actually, i know of many people that contradicts your statement about my stereotype, including my own mother. It does happen. But of course, to every statement, there are expections.