The line is where the couple decides it should be. For some any physical contact is crossing the line and for others even sex with other people is ok.

[QUOTE=2short67;261876][COLOR="blue">where is the line at what stage do you consider that a married man has crossed that line [/COLOR]

When he acts on his own behalf and purpose with and when his actions are behind his wife/girlfriend/s.o.'s back.

[COLOR="blue">when does flirting become cheating[/COLOR]

Flirting is innocent behavior without serious intentions.

[COLOR="blue">what constitutes cheating[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

When one's actions go behind the back of his/her partner. When he places his agenda ahead of others including breaching marital vows and the associated legal contract.

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> where is the line at what stage do you consider that a married man has crossed that line

With regard to being a flirt, he has also crossed the line whenever it makes either the person who is the object of his attention, and/or his partner uncomfortable.

I've been on the wrong end of the stick in this department.I'm 43 and a man i'd known for almost 10yrs and considered a friend confessed to me that he had secretly had feelings for me for some time (18mths)He's 9yrs older than me,and i knew he had a longterm partner/fiancee 22yrs his junior.I was shocked but flattered at his revelation and enquired about the status of their relationship.He told me that the relationship had stagnated and that he felt that the gap was becoming too wide between them ,and that he'd been fantasising about me, and felt that he and i were more compatible as lovers.I was being very cautious asking his motives and intentions.He said he loved me and wanted to marry me and did not hesitate before he answered my question.
I started seeing him on a regular basis and things were going well.It seemed i had finally found the man who could fill all my desires.But one day while awaiting his company for a romantic day together,i receieved a text message, and thinking it was him i grabbed my phone to reply.But it was his fiancee wanting to know WTF was going on.We actually had a good text chat and i discovered that he had not left her at all but was seeing me in secret.She suspected something and confronted him.He told her it was over between us when in fact it wasn't.I told her that i didnt want to continue the relationship,and that she could have him if she still loved him.I sent him a text message telling him it was over and to please explain .I haven't heard from him ,nor seen him in the past three months.Not that i really want to anyway.I'm not a homewrecker(not intentionally anyway)and i was devastated by his dishonesty,not just to me but to his fiancee also.I fell back into the arms of my estranged husband and my oldest son left home to live with my parents as a result.That is now over too ,i'm soon about to be divorced.
In hindsight the warning signs were there.He turned the other way when with me and some one he knew approached,wouldn't hold hands in public or sit next to me on the bus.Those things should have made me wonder about him.
Before you do anything 2short67 consider the feelings of your wife/girlfriend and also those of the person you will be doing the potential cheating with.Because although you may feel neglected by your SO and feel that another woman can fulfill your needs,if it all backfires there is not one person that suffers the hurt and humiliation but two,and you are left standing in the middle with egg all over your face and most likely all alone.I'm not judging you but speaking from first hand experience affairs are cheating,and cheating is lying and i don't want to be the other woman in any relationship, unless the couple concerned have an open and transparent arrangement in place that permits them both to see other people.

Oh and if there are children in your primary relationship,you need to think how the consequences of your actions will impact on them especially if your relationship cannot be kept alive.

[color=green]basically raunchy gal, the connection between the two faded.....he got bored and wasn't seeing his wife like he use to....and the same can happen vise versa.....sex life probably faded too......but besides all of that, he was never going to leave his wife.....one thing that she probably did do was take care of him.....she probably was a good wife, no matter how much he might have put her down (if he did that)

as for your relationship with that guy.....well it's a typical thing cheating married men do.....tell you that he's going to leave his wife but he never does.....well here in the U.S. it is......i've seen it happen too many times with couples older than me, younger than me, and around my age group

I guess the way i go about my relationship with my wife is not to look or think of her as my wife in a sense......i look at her as my girlfriend.....someone i'm dating, still learning things about, always trying to get closer to her, have fun with.......i'm not saying it works for everyone, but it works for me......the excitement and passion is always there and it takes work to keep it there!!

So flirting....well it's harmless, to a certain degree......flirting can be misleading.....a flirtatious joke here and there is harmless, but any more than that, then there is a misleading intention that sex is wanted

Crossing the line.....well we know where the line is and acting on those intentions is definitely crossing the line.......some people even find that if you are lusting after someone, then you are cheating on them.....lusting as if you have to place yourself around this person constantly[/color]

I suppose the line is crossed the second you need to ask your selfe the question..
I reasently asked for advise on wether or not I should put myselfe in the situation that is mentioned here, and I find thar by letting an other man play his way into my desire, and not wanting to stopp it, I allready did a BIG wrong toward my significant other, and have some issues to take care of...
Just for the record: I'm telling the trouth at home, and giving in to the sexual desire as a single woman with a clear contiens

Raunchy you got duped,the guys a player.He felt that you and he were on equal wavelenths as far as emotions and maturity go.You were only 9yrs younger compared to the 22yrs between him and his fiancee and he wanted a mature woman who he could relate to,but didn't want to lose his 'baby girl'.Next time don't believe everything you hear even if it sounds believable and convincing.2short think carefully before you do anything rash that you may regret later.

Flirting -defined as light banter expressing appreciation and amusement - is harmless. Let me remind you of the word LIGHT. Anything slimy, creepy or heavy-handed is not flirting.

Cheating - how I hate that word when applied to relationships because it is far too mealy-mouthed - is more properly, adultery. While I disagree with the lock-step, onme-size-fits-all sort of marriage aand societal expectations, I do agree that committed partners have to have an agreement BEFORE anyone does anything. If you agreed to the standard marriage and have changed your mind, you must discuss this with your partner first.

When does flirting become adultery - never does. The two are not the same and one doesn't of necessity lead to the other.

But how EEK!!How do you discuss with your partner of say 10yrs that they are not doing it for you anymore sexually,and that you still love them and want to stay in the relationship,but that you want an arrangement that lets both of you see others for sexual gratification.What if they say no way?

If they say no way, then no way. But if that's the way you choose to address it for the very first time, you're starting with the wrong request.

You don't start with "you don't do it for me anymore so I want us to stay together but find people who do it for us". You start with "let's see what we can work on together". Just the two of you. If your original arrangements are monogamous, going outside isn't an option until you've exhausted all inside options.

It isn't that they don't sexually satisfy you. They still do. But you have this fantasy...you're just running it by him to see what he thinks about this.

After all, he may have his fantasies as well and that is how you begin exploring your 'other options'. No, nothing may happen or some things may happen or everything may happen..but you won't go until your ask.

Well i asked the question hypothetically,but i do have a male friend in that situation who still loves his wife ,but he is frustrated at her lack if sex drive(it's not my recent ex either)He has expressed interest with me becoming his mistress/bit on the side,and although i have very strong principles regarding sex/relationships with married men,this time i would know where i stood ,and if he wanted to stop it after only one time i would be fine with that ,but i don't think it will just be a one night stand.We have already done sexting and cyber sex,and both of us are very keen to take it further.But i would need him to discuss with his wife his desire to fulfill his sexual needs with another woman before i committed,and she would have to give the green light for the affair to go ahead.He has been very honest and open with me unlike several other men i have known and i am extremely tempted this time to be his little bit of fluff for sexual purposes only.

Then he should ask his wife to speak to you independently.
You have to hear it directly from her beforehand.

[color=green]...............i doubt his wife is going to be happy with him fooling around with you..........[/color]

You are so right Opal,i seriously doubt it too.They have never been with anyone else,and were together 5yrs before having sex on their wedding night.She still is sexually interested in her husband,but sex is very infrequent.I do not think that she will want to meet with me for coffee and tell me that it is OK to have occasional sex with her husband

[color=green]......why do you play yourself like that???....dating married men and such.......i just don't understand it.......you're like a professional home wrecker.......relying on someone else's man to jump to you with some sort of hope that it can be more than just sex

excuse me and maybe i got it all wrong, but why not just become a swinger or something rather than sneaking behind another woman's back to get her man??.....i'm just curious[/color]

WHY don't you get your FACTS RIGHT before you pass JUDGEMENT on me.I do not DELIBERATELY go around LIKE A THIEF IN THE NIGHT STEALING husbands from their wives.They BELIEVE it or not chase after me.If you BOTHERED TO READ some of my 300 odd posts you will see that I DO NOT HAVE AN AGENDA TO DESTROY HAPPY FAMILIES.You have a right to your opinion and excuse the capiltals but you have made me VERY ANGRY.And i am not into the swinging party scene as you may seem to think is the case.HOMEWRECKER!! I AM NOT
A Big PS: In 17yrs of marriage of which almost 10 i was separated from my husband,i never once cheated on my husband,or even considered doing it.It was only earlier this year(and there are lots of threads/posts on this)a friend i had known for almost as long as i had been separated,told me that his relationship with his much younger fiancee(22yrs)was no longer viable and that they were living separate lives in the same house.That he had been sleeping on the couch for at least 6 months and had fantasisied about being with me for the past 18 months.I asked alot of questions regarding his relationship status,and his intentions towards me.He was very adamant that his relationship was over and that he wanted to be with me and get married.Iam only 9 years younger than him,and he felt more compatible emotionally and in other ways with me.So i never set out to steal him from his fiancee,he came to me with his confession that he loved me and wanted to be with me.When i found out 2 months later after i had begun a sexual relationship with him that he was still with his fiancee(she sent me a txt message)and that he had lied and manipulated both of us i immediately ended the relationship.So do you still want to call me a vixen and home wrecker,because nothing will happen between me and my friend unless he discusses having an open relationship with his wife,and she agrees.And once again he approached me with the suggestion,i did not say 'hey lets go and have sex behind your wifes back'.I am actually trying to givr him some suggestions to spice up his marriage before he turns to me or any one else for sexual comfort/gratification.

Yeah Qpl you're out of line. To suggest that a person could do better at selecting people to pursue is one thing. Out and out accusations, expressed in an inflammatory manner, are quite another.

Thank you int1103,I have never set out to deliberately destroy anyone's marriage,and if i did get caught in the crossfire i have always graciously surrendered and slipped away quietly into the background,way,way into the background.I saw said ex boyfriend whilst out and about the other day.He was alone ansd i politely said hello as i walked past.It was the first time i had seen him since i gave him his marching orders,and i hold no animosity or grudges against him.

raunchy gal When You put your life on the net not everyone is going to agree with what you do and what you get up to...
Maybe Qplezsthawife has read all your previous posts and may think he has a valid point??? because after all the only "facts" he has are typed by you..........Who knows

Nutty if Qplesthewife had read all of my 300 odd posts and threads as also you may have done you would see that i have been emotionally,verbally and physically abused by my husband(soon to be ex)into submission and taken advantage of by men for most of my life.I was sexually abused as a child by two men and my husband also sexually abused our children.I wonder how and when during all of this i can make a living out of chasing and seducing other womens husbands.Yes i attract the wrong kind of men .Like a magnet they are drawn to me dickheads and married men,i don't go running after them.Perhaps they see right through me and can sense my vulnerability and lonlieness

[color=green]sorry about that raunchy gal.......i wasn't judging you......i was making an analogy.......so don't take what i say too seriously........i was just curious

as far as being abused......i can't imagine how you feel......does it affect your judgement and relationships?......i can say yes it does......i'm married to a woman that was abused for the most part of her life......to her, i'm like her knight in shining armor since i came into her life when she was trying to get out of an abusive relationship......let's say that i took care of her ex and he's definitely not F'in with her anymore......but even because i've been there, helped her, and brought her into my love, she still is scarred from the abuse.....not that she thinks i'm going to abuse her, but she gets overprotective, jealous at times, and sometimes doesn't see things that are happening in reality.....always thinking the worst of things.....hard to explain[/color]

[color=green]point i was really making was.....if you know that they are in a relationship period, good or bad, you shouldn't interfere.......wait till it's completely over and then take it from there

that's why i asked why do you play yourself like that??

so they lied to you and didn't tell you that they were in a relationship....ok, that's not your fault, but if you knew from jump, then you can't really consider yourself a victim......you put yourself in that situation

so.......

one thing in relationships i've learned is to trust no one's information but my own

that's all[/color]

Thank you for clarifying that Qple,yes the abuse has made me very vulnerable and it does affect my judgement of people and situations.I guess i am looking for a knight in shining armour too,and i am far too trusting.I'm trying to change things about myself that wave red flags to the wrong people and say come and mistreat me.I suppose i am looking for love in all the wrong places and faces.I've told my friend that i'm not going to get involved.His marriage is important to him so i think he should concentrate on getting that fixed.According to him it doesn't need fixing,but a bit of spicing up.Rather than make me his bit on the side i think he should concentrate on the whole meal(his wife and marriage).See i have paid attention to what you and others have to say.And i don't harbour any bad feelings towards you,everyone has the right to speak their mind and be treated fairly.

I'd stop looking for a knight in shining armor because that leaves the door open to further abuse simply because you're looking for someone "to take care of you". The cry of "rescue me" doesn't always get a positive response.

Look at it from the predator's point of view. Here is someone who is vulnerable, who will be grateful for your assistance and who will say things like "however will I ever be able to thank you" - she won't put up much of a fight.

Who you should be seeking out is a decent single man who has the courage to be honest and has embraced the responsibilities of being an adult. Should he find you fascinating and desireable - hurray! Go for it!

But you won't find him unless you "up your game", stop wearing bows in your hair and stop dating according to your high school/fairytale playbook.

Thank you EEK i do need to re-evaluate the way i see myself, and there are a couple of single men i chat to who are decent and tell me exactly the same things you have just told me.They are just platonic friends one of whom i also chat to on facebook.He's 4yrs older than me and i think i am falling head over heels for him.We have much in common,and he tries to give me words of wisdom.But i know i need to tread carefully as i need to meet him in person to really see what kind of person he is and he me.But it might be hard as he is in California,and i am here in Victoria,Australia.I have flirted with him a fair bit and hinted at how nice it would be to live in California.I don't know if he will want to take our friendship further,but i'd like to meet him one day and hopefully he will see the nice lady he chats to as more than just a friend