[url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20770-sex-on-the-brain-what-turns-... on the brain: What turns women on, mapped out - life - 05 August 2011 - New Scientist
Even though as early as the '50s there has been a mapping of where the male genitals relate to in the brain, this was not done for females... until now! :) And even better: the research gives credit to two of the things women have said all along;
-vaginal stimulation is different from clitoral
-nipples have some sort of "hotline" to the female genitals
Quotes from the article (see the link for more and schematics of the brain):
[INDENT]The precise locations that correspond to the vagina, cervix and female nipples on the brain's sensory cortex have been mapped for the first time, proving that vaginal stimulation activates different brain regions to stimulation of the clitoris.
"They [the current findings] support the reports of women that they experience orgasm from various forms of stimulation," says Beverly Whipple, also of Rutgers University, who was not involved in the current study.
Komisaruk also checked what happened when women's nipples were stimulated, and was surprised to find that in addition to the chest area of the cortex lighting up, the genital area was also activated.[/INDENT]
A personal note on my disbelieve and surprise: Isn't it weird that men have long ago investigated and "mapped" themselves, but there have only been "guesses" so far on what this mapping works like in females? Even more weird: that women have been laughed at for making such "peculiar" statements as above, without there being actual scientific proof to reject their personal observations? Finally someone -a man, btw ;)- is gathering the facts. I'd say; hurray! :)
You're most welcome, Brandye! I think it is really interesting as well! :)
Yes, in many ways the fairer gender in science seems to have been rather left a mystery subjected to the wonders of wild imagination. Or perceived as an exact copy of Adam's rib ;) The general exception being the birth-system, which has been of interest for ages. It's a good thing there is a rise of interest in gender-specific physical differences. In time we will be able to prescribe more appropriate medication and doctors may identify symptoms in women for deceases that typically present themselves differently in men. And I hope research like the one mentioned will empower women even more so in discovering their sexuality!
Btw: are you referring to Bella Abzug and Gloria Steinem?
(not that I know of their work, a quick google-search found me their names :))
WOW!!! Thanks, RedRoses!! Even I have promulgated the old myth of all vaginal stimulation being indirect clitoral stimulation. I went back to the original article cited (no need for most to do) and the journalists got it right and in proper English rather than medicalese.
Personally, I get little from vaginal stimulation, although, with great effort and much practice, a girlfriend and I are successful in stimulating one anothers' G-Spots. My right nipple is hard wired directly to my clitoris. This article will lead to more exploration of myself, even post-menopausal, and will certainly lead to some changed messages to young women.
You are correct about the researchers in my profession being penis-centric. It has only been ten years since athletic shoes for women were introduced; previously, we wore men's two sizes smaller. How many knees, ankles and hips were destroyed by that. With each passing year more is being learned to differentiate us and to explain homosexuality. For homosexuality, much more has been described in the male, with genetic explanation, than in women. We Bi-women will wait even longer for any explanation. More is even being learned each year about differential pharmacology for men and women. I guess Glora and Bella were more right than even feminists know about a male-centric world.
THANKS, thanks.
very good post RR!!! :) i wonder how they gather this information. do they have a long term partner get down to business with them or do they have sex toy they use with erotic images? sounds like fun research;):D:p my question that i want answered is how come women vary in what pleasures them? for example brandye says she gets little from penetration and then others experience the whole nine yards with clitoral, vaginal, and ejaculation. women have the same anatomy but not stimulated the same.
Big,
The medical studies that this article is based upon specify that the women were engaged in self-stimulation. This was also true of the classic Masters & Johnson studies of fifty years ago which identified the mechanics of the female orgasm, including what was going on "inside." That latter was done with a camera through a clear plastic dildo. The doing it yourself approach eliminates many of the variables that would be introduced by a partner although it does limit the results a bit. For identifying the electrical impulses in the brain, it is the most efficient but eliminates those women who do not want anyone "watching."
As for idiosyncratic response, that is true of both men and women. Note the posts here of men who reach orgasm through masturbation but not with actual sex; those who do through vaginal penetration but not oral. It simply appears that women have a greater variation than men, and are, therefore, more difficult in reaching generalized conclusions.
My first orgasmic experience was almost accidental and involved only clitoral stimulation. As my experimentation become bolder, orgasm still came from my falling back to what I knew worked. Learned behaviour! Female sexual response is more learned, whilst men's is more innate. We have taught ourselves differently, in the case of masturbation, or learned with different partners who may emphasize different forms of stimulation.
Referring to my earlier post, I do respond to G-Spot stimulation with one (female) partner. We really worked at it. I have had men assure me they could do it "for" me. Never happened.
The paper Red has introduced us to is studying neural response measured by activity in the brain. This gives us great insight into how women differ, or are similar, in their responses. I hope men do not read this stuff as part of the recipe book that too many men believe leads to sexual bliss. As long as the learned component of sexual response remains large, idiosyncratic differences will remain large enough to make us confusing to men.
As an afterthought: this method of studying female sexual response may lead to unlocking the mystery of the G-Spot; squirting remains a physiological response and will eventually be solved by other approaches.
This also proves that there is a sexual component to breast-feeding.
It isn't surprising that research on women lags behind research on men. The "might equals right" mentality, the masculine immediate assumption of leadership roles in any relationship and the Judeo-Christian/Islamic/tribal ethic determined that long ago - we're talking BCE here.
I achieve orgasm if the wind caresses my skin if I'm suitably aroused or during afterglow. Clitoral stimulation is an appetizer for me. G-Spot and the fornices are more fun. And one orgasm is simply not enough. Fortunately as told above, achieving more orgasms is not difficult.
Although all humans have the same 'body plan' they, humans being brain as well as body, remain highly individual so what works for one may not work for another for any number of reasons. There is 'no magic formula' that works for everyone.
Yes, Red, Abzug and Steinem. The protofeminists of the mid-twentieth century. Bella is gone but Gloria lives, and acts, on having much effect on the Third World. Bella was U.S. focused by Gloria has recognized the greater ills in the greater world.
They really paved the way for some then shocking literature that seemed to have set the world atwitter - The Women's Room (my favorite), Speedboat and Looking for Mr. Goodbar. These three books gave the world more insight into female sexuality than even the studies by Kinsey and Masters & Johnson.
Steinem and Abzug are good reads, too, though seem a bit stilted today when so much of what they called for has been addressed, at least partially.
P.S.: Good reading for the next six weeks alluded to in today's thread.
Germane Greer's W is also worth looking into though not my favorite authoress.
For those wishing a longer perspective, Dr. Helenea P. Schrader has some interesting things to say on women's status in the ancient world and how it relates to such status today, though I'd debate with her the value of the "protections" offered women in the West.
Thanks for the link. I've been looking forward to articles like this since I read that MRI's of things in motion were being used for sex studies. I didn't know, however, that the female nerve locations hadn't been mapped before?! I assumed that somewhere along the line there had to be at least a curious male researcher who wanted to know that stuff.
I remember reading a story a few years ago, also reported [url=http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-orside11feb11,0,79450.story... him doctor 'Orgasmatron' - latimes.com here, where someone operating on the spine stumbled across some of the nerves along the genitalia pathway. Surely if they put that much effort into refining a device they would also have researched to what part of the brain the signals they're sending end up going as well as what else is connected to those pathways?
The physical, medical and social sciences have been androcentric since the beginning. There was a time that it was thought that something about the uterus makes a woman crazy--hence the term "hysterectomy": it derives from the word hysteria. This study proves the tendency is getting better, but it's not totally equalized yet.
[QUOTE=lnt1103;272455]The physical, medical and social sciences have been androcentric since the beginning. There was a time that it was thought that something about the uterus makes a woman crazy--hence the term "hysterectomy": it derives from the word hysteria. This study proves the tendency is getting better, but it's not totally equalized yet.[/QUOTE]
it sounds like what they called hysteria in the past was just undesirable parts of menstruation right?
I believe it referred to the sexual urges as well, since sex wasn't supposed to be pleasurable for a woman - it was just her job to procreate. This led to the invention of the vibrator. The first was the size of a room, powered by a STEAM ENGINE, and allowed doctors to treat more patients more quickly with much less carpal tunnel. In looking for a link to to that, I found that there is going to be a movie on the topic!
[url=http://www.dailyblam.com/news/2011/08/16/hysteria-trailer-features-maggi... Trailer Features Maggie Gyllenhaal & Invention of the Vibrator | The Daily BLAM!
Damn, could you imagine having a legitimate medical practice of making women orgasm all day? How the hell would you come home and complain about the office?
"Sorry I'm late for supper again dear. Mrs. Sanders was in again, and you know how cantankerous she can be."
Hysteric symptoms are what we nowadays mostly know as somatic symptoms. Physical complaints without an apparent physical cause, usually combined with emotional distress. It was seen in women and hardly in men, hence why doctors seeked cause in the female organs (as lnt points out). And: they found out the female sex-organs seemed to hold the key to treatment of hysteria in a lot patients. Doctors would treat their hysteric female patients by given them physical therapy to cause "hysteric spasms" (back in the late 1800). This was at the time in no way associated with the male orgasm. It was seen as separated from procreation or as you may say: not sexual.
Fun is right about the history of the vibrator. This was a great relieve to physicians/therapists. With this "vibrotherapy-device" they could treat 6 instead of 1 woman per hour! Massage-devices for use at home appeared in the 1920's for health-purposes to make "the blood run lively through your veins". As soon as the delights of the devices were appearing in sex-shows in night-clubs, it changed the reputation. Possibly: it blew the "cover" for the every-day-women secretly using it for such purpose. The devices disappeared from the market, as no self-respecting woman could buy them no more. Only the re-emerge in the sixties, as women started to claim their rights for sexual pleasure.
Little fun fact about hysteria: Signs of sexual abuse were typical in women suffering from hysteria. In fact; it was how Freud came up with his theory of the unconscious, subconscious and conscious mind; while hypnotizing his hysteric patients, (repressed) memories of rape and abuse surfaced. Since he couldn't believe all this women were really abused, he figured it must have been symbolic. Sadly, guesses later on are that the women were actually repressing memories of real events.
The movie looks like a fun and light version of the truth, quite suitable for entertainment. I may go and see it once it's here :)
after watching a new program on sexuality and orgasms i find it hard to believe that women are not getting clitoral stimulation because the clitoris is wrapped around the vagina. here is a video clip on this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1sAhoTwrnw]Curiosity - Why is Sex Fun? | Ultrasound of an Orgasm - YouTube
also when we were discussing the theories of why a female orgasm occurs i have found another reason biologically. when a woman orgasms oxytocin flows through her. in this video it shows that the hormone makes the genitals contract and work like a pump to move the sperm closer to her egg, thus an orgasm increases the chances of conceiving. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjYnG3iIZnY]Curiosity - Why is Sex Fun? | Orgasms and Reproduction - YouTube
[QUOTE=big916;273036]also when we were discussing the theories of why a female orgasm occurs i have found another reason biologically. when a woman orgasms oxytocin flows through her. in this video it shows that the hormone makes the genitals contract and work like a pump to move the sperm closer to her egg, thus an orgasm increases the chances of conceiving. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjYnG3iIZnY]Curiosity - Why is Sex Fun? | Orgasms and Reproduction - YouTube[/QUOTE]
sounds like a good argument for her letting you cum first :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=big916;273036]after watching a new program on sexuality and orgasms i find it hard to believe that women are not getting clitoral stimulation because the clitoris is wrapped around the vagina. here is a video clip on this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1sAhoTwrnw]Curiosity - Why is Sex Fun? | Ultrasound of an Orgasm - YouTube
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps you should think of it being phrased "not getting enough clitoral stimulation". A pair of jeans could provide clitoral stimulation but it's not going to compare to a vibrator or even the exact same motion against one woman's vs another's with very different shapes and clitoral hoods.
Historic evidence shows that doctors doing the massage to treat hysterics did NOT think of it as "good work if you can get it" but rather as a huge pain in the neck even though these women were the perfect patients since there's no 'cure' for hysteria, they won't die on you, and they eagerly keep coming back for more 'treatments'.
From another viewpoint consider a woman - unhappy with her marriage and life - who goes to a doctor once a week or so to get - free from shame - her weekly orgasm. "Oh, thank you, doctor!"
Of course all of this is knowing what we know now.
Your mother was quite right, Firmus! Though I'd consider the hardest part of being any sort of doctor that you see deceased, deformed, mutilated bodies on a daily basis, of which many you'll never be able to cure. I have once upon a time considered medical profession seriously. Thinking of those you'll be able to safe or give a better life; helping others as my drive. But because I know how I'm focused on people's emotional state combined with the way medical institutions seem to work, has stopped me from it. I think I would have made either a bad doctor not wanting to hurt my patients. Or a very frustrated nurse unable to provide the emotional care I can see patients need, lacking the time on my schedule ;)
Anyways, I don't think the reason why doctors may have disliked treating their hysteric patients in the late 1800's, was mainly a hygiene or repulsion factor. It was tedious long work to get a woman to "spasm". Working on this woman for about an hour. I imagine the guy staring out the window in boredom, while his movements have become auto-pilot, thinking this was not his reason to become a doctor. Sure she brings in good money, but this is no thrill to him at all. These were the days in which you typically didn't first prepare the lady for sexual intercourse, you just got down to business immediately. So apart from the objective of genitalia, not much to fantasize about. Imagine a husband needing to do such work on a wife, for goodness sake what laughable nonsense! ;) It's all a matter of perspective in the day and age.
Back to the article; what does still surprise me is that the connection between uterus and breasts was long known, so how come breast-genital-relations in the brain seem such a surprise? When a mother breastfeeds her baby after birth, it causes the uterus to contract, making it shrink and preventing blood-loss. Since orgasms also make muscles in the uterus spasm, doesn't that seem a rather obvious bridge from one to another? Now I know hormones are seriously raging at this stage in the woman's body and that's a hell lot compared to the peaks at orgasm, but oxytocine being the common factor in these two situations... Seems like there were quite some related issues going on here to inspire the curious mind. I guess people must have thought that things that are directed by hormones, don't lead to patterns in the brain or something?
SG1, I know exactly what you mean! And I'm wondering what other results will follow :)
This reminds me of one of the few career conversations I remember with my mom. On asking me what I wanted to be when I get on my own (was like 14 at the time) I joked that gynocologist sounded cool. :)
Her reply quickly took the cool out of it when she said "for every good looking healthy girl you'd have in there are 100's that'll come in unbathed, smelly, and with some weird disease you'll have to figure out with your face up there to get a good look.
While a job fapping women all day sounds cool at first, I guess the reality of the situation where the majority being people you see at Walmart - that you wouldn't even shake hands with - makes me understand why these doctors would be miffed.
:)
So that is is the reason why I get all wet from someone rubbing my nipples in foreplay! lol
that is pretty precise because I can get a major orgasm from anal and a different stimulation from vaginal. Awsome for that guy who is actually interested of the anatomy of a women!
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
-Komisaruk also checked what happened when women's nipples were stimulated, and was surprised to find that in addition to the chest area of the cortex lighting up, the genital area was also activated. "When I tell my male neuroscientist colleagues about this, they say: 'Wow, that's an exception to the classical homunculus,'" he says. "But when I tell the women they say: 'Well, yeah?'"-
I'll just quietly walk over to the side of the room where the female neuroscientists are. I think the male neuroscientists referred to in the article need to get out of the lab more often and have sex with women. Or maybe they should visit SexInfo101 frequently.