The purpose of this post is to allow Sexinfo101 members and guests the opportunity to ask a gay person any question that may have been in the back of his/her mind. This is about information and education. Since i belive folks are born gay, this really isn't the place to have a theological discussion or moral crossfire discussions. That said, DON'T BE SHY about your questions. Trust me, i've probaby heard them all, and i'm not squeemish. I'll debunk myths, and hopefull give you insight into gay folk - i think you'll find we're not much different from most!
Fri, 03/05/2004 - 16:56
#1
Ever wanted to ask a gay person a question..
(sheepishly) Sorry Rawbob, I got a little carried away. I should have opened another topic if I wanted to discuss it that badly.
Back to your program....
Just to re-focus...ahahaha....if there are any members who want to post questions to me about homosexuality, living, loving, etc.....please feel free!
This is a great forum for information and idea exchange! Don't be shy!
I didn't think you were TOO upset. I just wanted it clear that I wasn't trying to offend anyone- straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, transvestite, hermaphrodite, (have I left anyone out!?!).
I suppose he could have been pre/post-operative transgender, but the no breasts, no penis would be pretty hard to fake.
Boy... a lot gets lost in translation...
I was not offended, nor was I trying to imply that you were wrong. I guess I really need to work on my communication skills a little more. It was more of an FYI than a correction... if it came across differently, I am sorry.
Seems to be a common thing with my posts... misunderstanding.
Heheheh...
I really didn't mean for that post to be offensive. If I'm not mistaken they described him on the box as a hermaphrodite, and claimed he was born that way. It's been quite a while, but if I remember correctly, he did have an unusually large "clitoris" which as you pointed out would be the penis.
Anyway, I was more interested in the idea of attraction verses sexual organs. Sorry if the language was a little hazy.
Great post, HngLkAMouse. And it deals with something that I've thought and wondered about.
It's interesting that you should bring up hermaphrodites because I have noticed an interesting reaction to that subject in myself. Okay, porn videos. Chicks with dicks- attractive women with penises. They don't do a thing for me. I'm not sexually aroused at all. However, I came across a video of the opposite type. A hermaphrodite male. An attractive man with a vagina. He was very masculine- beard, moustache, hairy chest and legs- just no penis. I found him extremely attractive. The lack of penis not withstanding, I don't think I would have a problem having a sexual relationship with someone like him. Isn't that interesting? It's not necessarily the penis that attracts us- or me anyway.
Maybe no one else will see any significance to this, or care. I see some significance, I'm just not sure what. Any opinions?
Thanks Hung....it certainly should give some folks food for thought. But then, that would require those who NEED to see the world as black and white, right and wrong, just can't see gray......ah well...their loss!
Hopefully we'll get more folks posting questions. I mean, with "Querr Eye for the Straight Guy," "Will and Grace" and assorted otehr shows that do give a glimpse into the gay world, there have to be more questions out there! They don't have to be personally directed towards me, generic questions are fine too! C'mon folks...POST!
I have no problem(s) re-posting it. Please keep in mind; similar to this very minute, it was composed first thing in the a.m. and my thought process was not as clear as I would have liked. After re-reading it... I also find it hard to follow, and I'm the one that wrote it.
But regardless, here it is:
--- Paste ---
Well... in addition to my previous (humorous?) post... let me share MY beliefs on the subject.
*NOTE: Please ignore the inaccuracy of my facts. I am generalizing and estimating because I'm too tired to go find the actual data and/or facts.
Did you realize that aside from our perception as we get older... there is not a lot of difference between men & women...? Hmmm... that sounds like a far stretch, so let me explain:
It is not until LATE in the pregnancy that gender is determined and it is mostly determined by which hormone gets produced by the fetus first - testosterone or estrogen. At that point the body kicks-in.
Similar...? Yep. If you scour the web you will see some INCREDIBLE instances of the 'in-between" phases of sexual development; such as women's clitoris' that are larger than normal - resembling a small penis. Why... because it is the same flesh mass, just underdeveloped. The labia...? is the scrotum without testicles... the ovaries are the testicles but up in the abdominal cavity or you could take the opposite perspective that it's the Clitoris that GROWS for a man, the ovaries "drop" to become testicles into the scrotum which would have been the labia... etc. We both have nipples, etc.
My point is... it's the body's CHEMISTRY that determines what direction you will take sexually... but it does NOT always happen cut & dry or Black & White. Those are NOT the only hormones and feremones we have. There is belief that you may be genetically closer to the chemical makeup of a WOMAN being more in-touch with feeling and being more emotional yet having the physical characteristics of a MAN.
What about Hermaphrodites that are born with BOTH working reproductive sets...? What does that make them...? Straight? Gay? How do you tell...? If they're with a woman... are they straight or lesbian? If they are with a man, are they straight or Gay...?
From what I understand... more than 90% of non-heterosexual tendancies are NOT "choices" but desires that are not chosen... heck, dare I say REPRESSED for years and burried with denial.
We are slaves to the hormone(s) and our own brains. We like what we like... we hate what we hate. The similarities between men & women physically are closer than you think. The switch that 'normally' gets flipped that triigers interest of the opposite sex can sometimes be flipped a different way... or at times, not even be defined.
I take issue with those that say "You're either straight or gay... there is no Bisexuality" ummm... that's an odd statement. They think Bisexuals are "Confused". Sorry, but I've known a few of them and they didn't seem confused to me. They we very comfortable and grounded in their lives.
Anyhow... enough of my semi-long rant. I think there's a LOT more in my head that makes my point(s) clearer, but I just don't have the energy to type it all out. All I can say is, imagine this:
You wake up one morning... let's say tomorrow. You FEEL the same way you do right now. EXACTLY the same. But, something's different. WHOA! You look down and your gender has changed...!!! You are the OPPOSITE of what you thought you were. No, wait... that's not true... You've ALWAYS been this, but what your THOUGHT you were was a dream...? So, in my scenario, you are now the opposite sex but have all the want's & desires you have right now.
So.. guys... tell me... you now look down and see breasts and a vagina. Are you going to become "gay" and start dating other women...? Why? What's wrong with you...? (stereotypical response)
Girls... now that you lost your breasts and vagina and have a penis... will that make you desire women now...? or will you still like men...? Heck, that's gonna make you GAY now...!
My point is... all of us "straight" people seem to feel confident where we are because we're in the "norm"... but if all of a sudden, you were in a situation where your DESIRES have not changed... but your GENDER has... you still feel like the same person... but now the world's VIEW of you would change if you still were attracted to the sex you always were attracted to. Men who 'became' women would be considered gay because they still like women. Women who became men would be 'gay' because they still like men.
We cannot fault others because of a predetermined desire in their head(s). It's not fair. Imagine a guy saying: "Man, that woman is HOT looking.." and other guys being REPULSED by that statement. "Dude, are you sick...?" No! We like what we like.
Okay, enough of my rant... I hope at least 50% of this came across the way I intended to. Have good weekend...!!!
--- end paste ---
Yeah... a little bit tough to follow, but I think (hope?) my intentions came across. Peace, all.
Thanks guys, very enlightening
HngLKAMouse, it was a good mini-rant that one of yours. You should put it again.
HngLkAMouse- sounds like your intentions were pure even if something got lost in translation. I find the fact that you are willing to stand up for gay people very uplifting. And for that you have my thanks.
Humble- you're welcome, anytime. If you think of anything else feel free to come and ask. Or even PM me- that goes for everyone.
Thanks for the answers oberon and Rawbob!
HngLKAMouse - you did not need to delete your posts. It was enough when you explained that the rant was not directed at me.
Cheers,
Humble
Hi TJ, thanks for your questions. Let me take them one at a time!
1) When did i know i was gay?: Well, like most men in my position, i guess i could write a BOOK about my life as a str8 man..but i'll give ya the Readers Digest version.
Looking back now, i know i was in deep denial about my homosexuality. As a kid and teenager when i saw str8 pornography, i was always looking at the man's dick and not so much the vagina. I mean, pornographic images of a man and a woman having sex are and were everywhere, so there was no lack of "visual" fodder for me. However, when you grow up in a very conservative, blue-collar, religious house like i did, the "ROLE" a man was to play in life was drilled into me from as far back as i can remember. A man is supposed to grow up, go to school, date girls, be rowdy and have fun, play sports, go to college, get a degree, find a girl, get a good job/career going, get married, buy a house, have a kid, and of course the dog and cat - AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I DID. I should also point out that i was a wicked homophobe in my late teen, early 20's. Even my wife (now exwife) would often chastise me for being so intolerant! Once married a few years, my wife and i, as most couples do, began discussing fantasies and watching porn as part of our sex life. That, along with the advent of the internet, i began to see more and more links and info about gay sex. The more i viewed and read the more an inner voice began to cut thru the decades of engrained thoughs and beliefs i had. My and I met a gay couple on vacation, and she encouraged me to spend a week's vacation with them while she was on a business trip. That was when i first saw how happy those 2 men were, and that their life was not much different from my life.
Thats when the deception began in my life and my marriage. I began searching out more information and actual experimentation with gay sex. From trips to adult bookstores to going to gay bars on business trips, i explored all aspects of gay life (thats a story in and of itself). Needless to say, it had a toll on my marriage - and it was my wife who, when she left, said "I'm leaving, so you can find out WHO u really are."
2) How was sex with my wife: Let me just say that i never had a problem performing sexually with my wife. IT was never about sex - it was about love. I "loved" my wife, but i came to understand that i was more in love with the importance of being seen as "normal." In fact, the last time i saw my wife before she left me, we had sex. Its amazing how you can trick your body and mind to adapt to almost any situation - and thats how it was for me. COULD i have sex with a woman now - probaby yes. Would I? No.
Thanks for the questions! Feel free to ask more if you want. HOpe this gave you some insight!
Rawbob, I hope you don't mind if I jump on your train here. This is a great topic idea, and I'm a little jealous that I didn't think of it.
First of all, though it might seem obvious, I'd like to state that no one gay person can speak for all gay people, anymore than one straight person can speak for all straight people. That being said I'll answer any question as honestly as I know how. So to the questions:
Humble-
1. I personally have no desire to have children. And think I would feel that way even if I were straight. However, I do like children and would do everything in my power to protect them. Gay people, like anyone else, have the instinct to nurture the young. I think if adoption laws were not so religiously motivated that fewer gay people would feel the need to create their own children. And there would be fewer unwanted children in the world. If you are looking for a good biological reason for homosexuality, this could be it. Humans, like most species, tend to produce more offspring than they can actually take care of, and then there are those who are orphaned. In other species, other members of the species sometimes take over these responsibilies. Who better than someone with no children of their own, but a strong nurturing instinct?
2. Me, no, not at all. I can recognize a beautiful woman just as you can probably tell if a guy is attractive, but I wouldn't want to have sex with her anymore than you would want to have sex with the guy. If you are sexually attracted to both I believe that would make you bisexual.
3. Yes, this question is unclear. So I'll try a couple of different approaches. If you mean does "the man" go off to work and the "little woman" stay home, well, not even many straight couples do it that way anymore. In all the couples that I know, both work and both share the domestic chores.
If you mean sex and sexual roles, then, I suppose, it depends on the couple. Some guys are total tops (only want to do the penetrating) and some guys total bottoms ( only want to be penetrated) and all those that fall in between. I, myself, am versatile. I like both equally, and would prefer to be in a relationship with someone who also is versatile. I might add that this in no way reflects masculinity or the appearance of masculinity. You would probably be shocked at the number of big, burly truck drivers who are very happy with their legs over someone's shoulders.
TJdude and Humble-
You both sort of asked similar questions. Are you born gay? How did you know? For me, it was, I suppose, the same as a straight guy with girls. I just noticed the guys instead of girls when I became interested in sex. I did, however, "try" girls. Or a girl to be exact. I was very close to her and you could even say I loved her. But there was something missing. It wasn't her fault at all. But I could never have been totally attracted to her. I could possibly even have married her and had children, but I would never have been totally committed to her. Which wouldn't have been fair to her. Which is why I broke it off. I'm sure some guys don't break it off, which may explain how the genes get passed on. I never went through that "OH MY GOD!" stage that a lot of gay people seem to go through. As conservative as my upbringing was, I had access to a lot of books and I like to read. So I went from, "Oh, this is a stage", "I'll grow out of this" to "I guess this isn't a stage, oh well". And "coming out" only made me stronger.
HngLkAMouse-
1. You choose your primary color and then go up the chart several shades lighter or darker. If you are more adventurous, you can try contrasting colors, but I wouldn't recommend it for beginners. (I do remodeling, but I know enough interior design to get by.lol)
2. No. And I suppose I could send you pictures to prove it if you like.
I hope these answers helped and I'm looking forward to more questions- if Rawbob doesn't mind- and to hearing his answers.
My question is: when did u notice u were gay? i mean, out of the blue you started to like boys instead of girls?, did u pass a stage where u were like what the hell is wrong with me? how did u get to the point where u say: the hell with it, yes, i'm gay, let's doit
.
Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but i think u were married before, so how was the sex with your wife? did u hate it? which one is better? or what is the difference?
Well, c ya, and thanks for the opportunity
Ok, I will bite...
1) Do gay people in general (or you personally) feel a desire to have children or is this absolutely not the case?
2) Are gay people in general (or you personally) at all attracted to women? Obviously, they are attracted to men more, but I am wondering whether their attraction to women is simply weaker or non-existent.
3) In gay relationships, is it usually the case that one partner assumes the 'traditional female role' and one 'traditional male role', or both generally assume both roles, or both assume the same role, or is it something entirely different? (I realize that this question is not very clear, but I am leaving it intentionally vague - answer what you think it is asking.)
On a related note, you mentioned you believe people are born gay. I know little about the matter of what causes one to be heterosexual or homosexual. From an evolutionary point of view, however, if it is genetic homosexuality should be genetically selected against (gay people leave behind no, or fewer children), so over millions of years it would likely disappear. Of course, we know that has not happened. That can mean either of two things:
1) Homosexuality is not genetic.
2) Homosexuality is genetic, but is recessive and the same genes responsible for homosexuality provide some other advantage which improves the survival rate compensates for the fact that gay people tend to have no or fewer children.
I do not know which of the above it is and I was wondering whether you could clarify that for me and enlighten me more on the origin of homosexuality.
Hmmm... a couple questions...?
a) How do you determine which accent color will best compliment your primary color or pattern when decorating a livingroom...?
b) Do all gay men just receive a defacto gym membership and start working-out immediately...?
All kidding aside, I've known plenty of gay, lesbian and bisexual people in my life and they've all been VERY open with me and willing (if not eager) to answer all kinds of questions. To me, there's nothing needed to explain at this point. Heck... I DO live in Massachusetts where gay marriage is now legal.
Let's be clear about our terminology. To the best of MY understanding, a true Hermaphrodite NATURALLY has both a penis AND a vagina... in most cases, both are fully functional.
Transvestites or people who are transgender are not what I'm referring to. They may be Men whom have decided to live life as a woman in physical appearance and mannerisms, but they are genetically a man (having a penis & scrotum) or the opposite... women who dress & live the life of a man. Either of those types of individuals may or may not be taking hormones to help offset the "undesirable" traits of their intrinsic sex attributes.
The example I gave using a hermaphrodite was on the assumption of a 'true' Hermaphrodite... born that way. Oddly enough, the only pictures & footage I've seen are those that take-on the outward appearance of a Woman... quite possibly due to the primarilly female look of the body (Breasts, wide hips, no adams-apple, etc) They may very well be mostly "women" mentally, but having both sex organs. I don't know enough to speak with certainty.
If I think of any questions for either of you... I'll let you know. Thanks for sharing this part of your life for discussion.
Wow....i post a question on friday, come back on monday and i missed a bit of an exchange! hahahaha
Well, first off, thanks to those who decided to post some questions - dialogue is the seedcord of tolerance! Ok, on with the replies:
Humble, here are the replies to your questions
1) Children: I cannot speak for all gay folks, but i would say that in my experience, as gay men get older and more financial secure - and yes, are over their "party like it's 1999" days, DO also have a desire to have children in their lives. As you know, most gay people need to adopt to create a family, and each state has their own set of laws governing who can adopt. I am lucky, I have a 14 year old son from my prior marriage to a female. He's a great kid and we have a great relationship. He knows and loves my partner alot. My partner has 2 kids from his prior marriage and they also know, love and accept us as a loving couple.
2) Attraction to women: Hell yes! I do not find the female body repulsive at all. From movie stars to just every day women on the street, not a day goes by what I don't comment when i see an attractive women. BUT, do not misunderstand physical appreciation for physical attraction. Remember, being gay is not about where i put my penis, but rather, my need for emotional bonds can only be met with one of the same sex.
3) Husband/wife roles in Gay relationships: Well, while i can't speak for every gay relationship, I'd have to say NO, there are no "traditional roles" in gay relationships. I will say that in our gay circle of friends, there's always jokes about one 1/2 or the other when it comes to who does the dishes, shopping or who's the interior decorator. I think most SUCCESSFUL long term gay relationships are based on the couple recognizing their partner's strong points. I"m good with money and finances; my partner is a professionally trained chef - so, i take care of the bills and financial stuff, and my partner runs the kitchen. Does this mean i sit on the couch and expect my dinner at the end of the day and never help HELL NO! Does that mean he just gets to spend wildly when he feels like it - HELL NO. We share in all major life decisions.
Now, as far as sex goes, are you asking does one take on the "man/top" and the other "female/bottom" role? Not in the heterosexual sense. The benefit (work with me here folks, i'm making a point), of being gay as far as "role definition" goes is that since we both have the "same equipment" for sex, we can both enjoy both TOP and BOTTOM as a part of our sex life. Going much further would be fairly graphic but i can elaborate if you want.
4) Is gay genetic?: Well, as you can see in my situation, both myself and my partner were both able to conceive children. Being gay is a genetic predisposition to find "EMOTIONAL" love and affection from a person of the opposite sex. It does not limit our ablity to conceive children. History is replete with gay men (in the closet) getting married and having children because of the social stigma and fear associated with being gay. So, the genetics are about LOVE not about being able to procreate.
Well, I think that covers your questions! Feel free to ask more qualifying questions - i'm an open book!
I have always been hetro. I also have a fantasy that involves another man. I don't know if I should just keep it to myself or try and make it a reality. I've never been with another man before but this fantasy always makes me want to try..... What should I do?
[QUOTE=echo1]I have always been hetro. I also have a fantasy that involves another man. I don't know if I should just keep it to myself or try and make it a reality. I've never been with another man before but this fantasy always makes me want to try..... What should I do?[/QUOTE]
First things first; what is the other man's orientation and interest? Until you have an answer for this then you would be advised "to just keep it to myself".
There is nothing wrong with any fantasy, even bizarre ones, so long as you do not act out on them.
Before anybody has sex, don't you think it a good idea to get to the person, first. Once you know what his orientation and interests are you will be better able to determine whether your fantasy should remain private, or, whether you should discuss it with him and then decide what to do.
[QUOTE=echo1]I have always been hetro. I also have a fantasy that involves another man. I don't know if I should just keep it to myself or try and make it a reality. I've never been with another man before but this fantasy always makes me want to try..... What should I do?[/QUOTE]
Hi Echo,
If you are single and not involved with anyone then that's the time to try out your fantasies. If you have a partner, then it's more difficult to engage in fantasies that involve someone else. My personal opinion is that in such a case you'd need the approval of your partner.
That being said, there isn't a "sex police"- at least, not yet- who require that you choose a sexuality and stick to it. If you want to explore this, then go looking for someone who would be interested. Make yourself very plain- as in, "I'm only looking for an experience. NOT a relationship." I'm sure you'll find people interested. Get to know the person and make sure it's someone you feel safe with. Above all, play safe.
Good luck and take care.
I hope you are not insulted by this question... here goes:
As a gay guy, do you get aroused by your own body? For example could you look in the mirror and mastrubate the same way I might mastrubate while looking at images of attractive women? (Rawbob, I think you are pretty darn good looking btw. :) )
rawbob u mentioned that you were married prior to realizing/accepting that you were gay, and that you even were somewhat of a homophobe... how did you start to realize that you were homosexual, ... when you were married did this affect your sex life? you mentioned that you loved your wife so i guess you were able to share an emotional connection with her... you dont have to answer if you find this too personal, i'm just curious in part because my boyfriend is somewhat homophobic (well he says stuff about finding homosexuality gross, but we hang out with a group of friends and sometimes a gay guy is there and he has no trouble talking to him or anything), and my bf also kind of has a low sex drive (well what i consider low anyway, it seems like i initiate more often than him, but mind you he's just shy in general as a personality trait, not just in bed)... so anyway not that i think he's gay (didnt really cross my mind till i read about your experience lol, well that and once apparently my mother told me that my sister in law called him a "faggot" (sorry i dont use that word myself personnally, just quoting the sis in law here, but she was drunk and can be mean like that) but what you describe about having been homophobe before admiting to being gay got me curious to hear more about your experience with your wife in that regards...
Cheers, keep up the good work, fluffy.
A friend and I were just discussing this stuff the other day! Here's our question:
Do gay men ever have sexual dreams that involve women?
[QUOTE=Fluffer]A friend and I were just discussing this stuff the other day! Here's our question:
Do gay men ever have sexual dreams that involve women?[/QUOTE]
I can't answer for all gay men, but I never do. I have on occasion- when I was much younger- had romantic dreams that involved women.
i would like to know how can i maximise my pleasure while sucking my partners cock???
[QUOTE=Fluffer;148082]A friend and I were just discussing this stuff the other day! Here's our question:
Do gay men ever have sexual dreams that involve women?[/QUOTE]Hi everyone - I'm new to this forum. 52 yr old gay male -
Fluffer, I've had a few fantasies about sex with a woman, but they're very few and far between. Never actual dreams though. My fantasies are very specific and genital oriented, so I doubt that I'd find the actual act very arousing. I also will probably never do it.
What's with the gay-straight erotica? why would a gay guy want sex with a non-gay male, I mean, If they don't find you attractive, how would that be satisfying?
(for some reason I read a lot of gay erotica, and that just keeps coming up)
[QUOTE=sexybigothchick;161484]What's with the gay-straight erotica? why would a gay guy want sex with a non-gay male, I mean, If they don't find you attractive, how would that be satisfying?
(for some reason I read a lot of gay erotica, and that just keeps coming up)[/QUOTE]It's probably more of a fantasy porn thing, butI guess some gay guys would enjoy the "challenge" of seeing if they can get a straight guy to have sex. Maybe some think that a straight guy is more masculine (although personally I think that's a load of crap - it's entirely based on the individual). I have no interest in having sex with a "straight" guy . . . I think they're much more likely to have "issues" about the sex and who knows how they'd react after the fact. And as you said, unless I know the guy finds me attractive I doubt I'd have much fun anyway. :D
Why does it seem like more men marry woman and find out they are gay then woman do?
One more, I consider my self a bisexual woman. Although I have never been able to take a relationship with a woman seriously. I defiantly like to have sex with woman and have. I find them really beautiful and tend to look at woman more during porn. My question to you is, do you think that is considered bisexual?
Hi Lovely,
I don't really think that more men than women marry and then finally decide to deal with being gay. I think it just seems that way because the men tend to get more press. It seems to be a bigger deal to be a gay man than to be a lesbian (probably because straight men find lesbians- at least the idea of lesbians- interesting).
As for your own bisexual relationships... I've discussed before my definitions of gay, straight and bisexual- and I won't bore anyone with them again. I think "bisexual" actually covers a lot of ground. It may just be that you are only sexually attracted to women, but find more emotional/romantic stability in a heterosexual relationship. Or- who knows??- you just may not have met the right woman for a serious relationship.
In any light- by MY definition- if you are seeking out any kind of sexual and/or romantic relationship with members of both sexes then you are bisexual.
Ok i have a question
My gfs cousin is gay and is her best friend. so i have really gotten to have my first experience of getting to know a gay guy.
and im so utterly disappointed
I think he falls under the category of the newly outed gay guy.
cause i hate to sound like a jack ass but he is to gay for his own good.
you know when someone is just so obsessed with something that its the only thing they talk about or think about. Im watching a stand up comedy special and all this cat did was find reasons why a performer was probably gay. He talked about fashion, he talked about gay clubs, he talked about what men are hot and what men are not, and then were at a bar and two of my female friends walk up to say hi to me and i introduce them to us. when my female friends walked away he gave an ugly face and with the most flamboyant voice physically POSSIBLE he announced "FASHION POLICE"
Im not judging the rest of the gay community by this one example. I find its unfortunate that he has to act this way cause i really was genuinely interested in getting to know him and well it turns out all i had to do is watch "will and grace"
my question is: "how do some of you feel towards this kind of overly cliche gay persona"
I guess im just wondering what some thoughts are about the whole "cliche gay guy image" do you feel your community is stronger by these examples of men who want to exemplify their sexuality to the most obvious extreme. or do you think a much less cliche more everyday average guy attitude who just finds men attractive instead of women is a better example.
[QUOTE=Lovelyand18;166633]One more, I consider my self a bisexual woman. Although I have never been able to take a relationship with a woman seriously. I defiantly like to have sex with woman and have. I find them really beautiful and tend to look at woman more during porn. My question to you is, do you think that is considered bisexual?[/QUOTE]
my gf has felt the same way, she has had sex with a women once. but it wasnt a good experience for her.
She still finds women attractive, and she gets turned on by watching "the L word" and yet im glad to report she is very happily involved with me. For her it was more about falling for who a person is and not what private parts they got. she just didnt want to be close minded to any opportunities of finding a great relationship
there is some kind of sexuality scale that goes from 1-10. they describe each number and its a good way eliviate any sexual confusion if you can find enough relative information associated to a number than you have some grounds and comparrison to how you kind of fit in. odviously life isn't as simple as a 1-10 scale but if you need a little extra clarification it may help... google for it
[QUOTE=madeye;167432]my question is: "how do some of you feel towards this kind of overly cliche gay persona"
I guess im just wondering what some thoughts are about the whole "cliche gay guy image" do you feel your community is stronger by these examples of men who want to exemplify their sexuality to the most obvious extreme. or do you think a much less cliche more everyday average guy attitude who just finds men attractive instead of women is a better example.[/QUOTE]I know what you're saying and I definitely wish it were more of the latter, but the situation's getting better. There's been a number of films where a charecter just happens to be gay but is not defined by cliched charecteristics. I think BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN was an important film in that regard . . . two men who are "straight" in every other way except their love and sexuality for each other.
For so many years it was taboo to have a gay charecter at all in mainstream movies or tv, then it was all right if it was a funny stereotype. Now it's working toward a more balanced representation. It'll take time but it's getting there.
As for the guy you were describing, there's no denying a lot of gay men are like that, but there's also every other stripe as well. I still think the majority of us fall into the "wouldn't know we were unless we told you" camp.
[QUOTE=madeye;167432]my question is: "how do some of you feel towards this kind of overly cliche gay persona"[/QUOTE]
To answer your question... Sometimes, very tired. However, I think I can add to what DVD says with a theory of my own. Pardon me while I go all Rod Serling.... Imagine if you will...
That you grow up never really feeling as if you fit in. You just don't seem to like the same things that all the guys around you profess to like. Even if you like sports, cars or other "masculine" interests, you never really feel like part of the group. Then...
You find a group where you are free to completely express yourself. You really feel for the first time as if you are allowed to be who you really are. Wouldn't you do the things that would make you more a part of the group? Even if you don't knowingly change, you tend to emulate those around you.
Now, gay culture has a long history of "camp". It comes from not being able to publicly discuss your relationships (hence the pronoun changes). It also comes from wanting to distance yourself from being straight. To quote the tired old slogan... "I'm here! I'm queer! Get used to it!" It's that in your face attitude.
While I don't share his glowing admiration for "Brokeback Mountain", I think DVDBear is correct in that we are beginning to see this change. As gay men have more role models and less need to hide who they are, there is less need for the "flaming queen" personas. Something some of us refused to go along with anyway... LOL. (Yes, I CAN camp... but I can also TURN IT OFF! :D )
Just as a sidenote (on the movie topic)... If you want to see a great "gay" movie, then I suggest "Big Eden". It stars Arye Gross and is wonderfully cliche-free as well as just a darn good movie.
[QUOTE=oberon;167448]While I don't share his glowing admiration for "Brokeback Mountain", I think DVDBear is correct in that we are beginning to see this change. As gay men have more role models and less need to hide who they are, there is less need for the "flaming queen" personas. Something some of us refused to go along with anyway... LOL. (Yes, I CAN camp... but I can also TURN IT OFF! :D )
Just as a sidenote (on the movie topic)... If you want to see a great "gay" movie, then I suggest "Big Eden". It stars Arye Gross and is wonderfully cliche-free as well as just a darn good movie.[/QUOTE]Hey, I don't flame and I don't "glow!":D Although I personally liked BROKEBACK I was mainly referring to it's impact on society at large. It was a hit mainstream movie that didn't get marginalized as a "gay film" and relegated to art house showings. I've talked to many people who seem to have a more nuanced perception of what being "gay" is about after having seen it. I haven't seen BIG EDEN, but it's going into my Netflix queue. It very well might be the better film but didn't reach the masses like BROKEBACK.
I really liked the way six feet under does a great job of showing that yes these two guys are different cause they are gay. and yet they still made sure the sexuality didnt define who they were. Cause even though they have a different sexuality i was able to see personality traits that i can relate to and connected with. after 5 seasons of the show i cared about them as much as much as any straight couple on the show.
so i really think that has helped the gay male image i have, really thats all i got to go on right now.
Brokeback mountain was a great movie. and a good example of a media gay reality check.
but i cant help but notice now that every single romance comedy includes the lead female role to having an uber flamboyant gay best friend who usually works in the fashion industry.
And i also get a sense from my sister and gf that they almost enjoy gay people for the novelty of it and not as much for the people who they are past the sexuality. i get a sense of "oh my god i have to become friends with the gay guy"
it just seems like society is at a weird transition about all of this. yeah its great that people are starting to accept the evolutionary shift of human nature. But as good as that change is to the way it was before i cant think your happy having all this fan-girls surrounding befriending you for the novelty of it instead of for who you are as a person.
I know what you're referring to but can't say I've experienced it personally. I have a number of girl friends, but half I would say are lesbians and the other half have known me for years - many long before I came out. I've never had someone try to befriend me for "novelty" value. LOL "Hi everyone! I want you to meet my token gay friend!"
I've been told many times there's also the "safety factor" with women to have gay male friends. They can trust them not to have alternative motives for their friendship. I can kinda see that.
Hey DVD..my gay male friends are not my token gay friends, and it's not that it's a safety thing either. First they are my best friends and wonderful people...they KNOW how to dress and are not afraid to tell you your outfit or your hair looks like hell. When we hang out at a bar they spot the hottest guys, and I run my dates past them...they have better judgment then I have. My girlfriends and straight male friends just try to make me feel better when I am down, they point out the truth. They have better intuition...
it does make sense that a gay man would have slightly better intuition about men considering sex being such an intimate vulnerable experience. and as wierd as it sounds that a girl would have her gay friend judge a straight mans character i guess no one can blame you for using the resources available.
I guess my annoyance is kind of the idea that a women would bond and trust a gay male before she would willingly do so with me.
I guess its the backlash of how many men consistently make advances on every women they meet. so i think its naive for a women to deny the fact that they would rather befriend a gay man than a straight man. I really believe and understand why that would happen.
another question along the lines of this would be:
"how likely is it that females start to fall for their gay friend and maybe even make a move on you"
I wonder cause i study a lot on attraction and a major part of attraction with a women is physical playful flirting. And it seems as though there are no men better at this than a gay guy. So i wonder how likely it is for a women to try and cross those lines? even playing on the idea of "want what you cant have" theory
Its funny how popular a movie like "chasing aimy" is, and trying to picture a movie with the opposite scenario and wonder if it would be just as accepted as a realistic story. (for all who dont know chasing aimy is about a lesbian falling in love with a straight man)
Madeye:
As far as your annoyance issue; it's not that I don't bond as closely w/my straight male friends. What makes that particular relationship most difficult is my straight male friends girlfriends make it near impossible to maintain a close relationship b/c of jealousy. Last year for Valentine's day, my friend John (his boyfriend had to work) and my boyfriend was traveling; so we went out for a nice dinner together. Now if that was any of my straight male friends they would not have gone w/me. Their girlfriends would have not allowed it. In maintaining a strong relationship w/my straight male friends--I outlast the current girl but our friendship fades while they are involved. Whereas, with my gay male friends, after I meet their partner or new bf they incorporate me as a mutual friend in their relationship. If they split, I tend to stay friends w/both; my straight friends their ex-gf ends all contact w/me! The same is true w/my gay gf's...once I meet their new partner & get to know her there is no jealousy. I don't really understand it (why my straight friends have so much trouble--maybe they need to learn about relationships from the other's).
As far as crossing the line, I would never do this to either a straight or gay friend. I value these friendships so much, it would never be fair since they are long and very trusted friendships (20 years) and stuck w/me through so much. If I have a FWB, it's a mutually agreed to relationship not one where I pushed the friendship beyond what it was. It was a friendship where mutual attraction was really there and the question of to try a bit more was always debateable. My gay male friends are in relationhips which are strictly w/other men, although a few did have a long term relationship or marriage (w/female) prior to their current relationships but were not satisfied. So, that has never been a possibility. If I hit on them they would prob. die laughing at me!!!
Dynamics of relationships! It's crazy.
nice reply sera, very nicely said.
I really didnt even think of the straight male with gf perspective. You are absolutely correct.
I have had issues with becoming best friends with a women that started out as sex and became best friends when the sex ended, i came to the conclusion neither of us could maintain such a close bond and expect to move on to other serious relationships.
and I want to add a side note on this gay straight friendship dynamic.
My gf was under the impression that cause her friend is gay its not a big deal to get crazy on the dance floor with him. She found a very angry boyfriend who later told her otherwise.
Just cause your sexual agenda does not include my gf does not mean its ok for you to act like your a britney spears back up dancer with her. and i threw my lady under that bus of how disrespectful and classless that is to do.
Im also not one of those bfs who think its ok for my lady to make out with other women at partys/bars
I can understand your view about your gf's behavior! I can understand being upset w/her!
The FWB thing here was generally men who I had a good friendship w/and for some reason (one of us was involved w/someone) we did not explore beyond just being friends. Then when we found we were both "free" and in some need of attention, it took off from there & always realizing it would be nothing more. But it always went back to just friends b/c that is all we really were, just attracted to each other. Neither my male or female friends who are gay, are attracted to me, so that was never an issue.
But one of my gf's who's gay dates quite a bit, and I have the opportunity to meet her latest. Now that is an interesting dynamic, I get the evil look from the new girlfriend for a while until she realizes there is nothing going on, I am straight, and not intruding on her relationship!
To generalize, I believe women (gay or straight) are more jealous then men. Someone will prob. shoot me down on this one, but it's what I have found. So, I believe this is why my friendships w/my gay male friends is much easier!
you know im saying this half heartedly joking
but by your post your coming to the conclusion that gay or straight women are a pain in the ass.
just kidding
Yeah the thing wit my gf is she is just graduating from a party college last year so she has lived a crazy lifestyle. And well i been out of that much longer. i been open since we met thats not what im looking for, so i hope she can keep this in mind in the future and be a bit classier with her friends.
The other thing i dont understand is straight women kissing straight women, yeah sure if your single thats always a good reason to have a group of people get all rowdy about two drunk hotties making out at a bar/party, but seriously if your that womens boyfriend i just dont see that would be tolerated in a committed relationship. women can say "its not sexual" you can think that all you want but by my definition tongues+mouths+moving hands=sexual.
Its just odd how some women think it doesn't count as cheating or insulting to the bfs status.
I have not encountered two straight women kissing, other then a good bye hug & peck on the cheek. Out in a bar? The only place I have seen women kissing women is when my gay gf's took me to a gay bar. I go w/them b/c fair is fair. If we can meet up at a bar where men & women are kissing, hitting on each other and they can tolerate that, I can do the same for them. But that sounds kind "different" to me w/your girlfriend, sure she's not bi?
yeah she is bi. she told me that right away.
She likes to make out with other women but she doesnt like the sex with women so her relationship interest is with men, im glad to say.
Mostly its a house party theme (hs/college type). alot of younger women do this while drunk these days. All the guys take pictures everyone screams and laughs. I have pictures or vids of 3 different couples of straight(bi) female friends making out. and most of these women who do this have bfs and its not considered cheating. some kind of special women loop hole privelage.....well not in my world it is but hey to each their own i guess
DVD and Madeye... I DO understand the importance of "Brokeback" and the impact that it had in mainstream media. I guess I just find it a little annoying that there are better gay movies and portrayals out there but because they didn't have big name stars and massive hype, they weren't seen by the masses. As Harvey Firestein said, though... "This is America and if it don't make money... it don't count." I also had a few plot/continuity issues with "Brokeback".. but that's just me being pedantic. LOL.
DVD... I think you'll really like "Big Eden". If you are at all sappy (personally, I cry at the silliest movies *groan*), you'll find it a wonderful movie. It's basically a romantic comedy... and just a romantic comedy. No camp. No cliches. The closest thing to a cliche is the main character's dread of telling his grandfather he's gay... but even that is handled better than in most movies. Oh... and I LOVE the townspeople! There are some great characters! You'll have to let me know what you think of it. :)
On the subject of the straight girl/gay guy friendship thing... I think part of the bonding is the fact that we have similar experiences. Gay men- I believe- experience both sides of the... for want of better wording... dominant/submissive roles of relationships. For one thing, straight men are usually the pursuers. They don't generally experience being "hunted"...LOL. There is also a matter of trust in going off with someone that is potentially dangerous. It may be somewhat of a generalization, but they would have the upper hand in a dangerous situition. Women and gay men have to- or should- assess the risks more carefully.
And yes... female friends do occasionally fall for us. It can be trying for both sides. There are one of two outcomes... that she either gets over it or they dissolve the friendship.
I have a question. I am a heterosexual woman, married with kids, and up to now have never felt attracted to other women. However, there is this woman who i greatly admire and resonate with or to use a well-worn cliche who could be a soul-mate of sorts. Another friend teased me about being infatuated with this woman (without any sexual inuendo). And though i would never admit it to anyone, it's actually how i feel around her, like i used to feel around guys i was intersted in. This woman is gay. I have actually had fantasies around what would happen if... and am not sure what i feel. Has this ever happened to anyone? Am i mixing/confusing emotions? Is it possible???
Hi Anon,
Yes, you could be confusing emotions. However, I believe that sexual orientation operates on a range from 100% heterosexual to 100% homosexual... with an awful lot of gray area in between. You could just have a "girl crush" on this woman or this may be the first (or only) woman that you'll have sexual feelings for. In MY OPINION- note the caps... it's ONLY my opinion- this would make you bisexual. If you are at all uncomfortable with the idea of being bisexual, then fortunately for you you never have to act on it (I think that's maybe a perk of bisexuality... LOL).
The bottom line is that whatever your sexual orientation, it's okay. If you don't feel comfortable taking this any further, then just enjoy the fantasy. :)
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