If they really wanted to be in control, they'd be giving them mind-blowing sex that leaves them so weak in the knees that they're kneeling for more. IMO, saying you want to be in control and not having sex is a lazy way to get out of it. Take a violent dog off a leash in a playground, why don't you. He'll go get a new chew toy for sure.

As for 'denying sex when in the mood', They must not really want it. If I'm in the mood, my man knows that he'd better be compliant and do as told, and nearly nothing will be able to kick that mood until I've been taken care of (except for a pregnancy scare....that dropped my mood to nil).

If you make your sex life into a commodity and treat the relationship as a business deal, then that is what you get. I don't see why it should be a surprise for those that do this that it isn't satisfying.

YEAH! Duh!

Women will withhold anything to get power if they want power.

Even if they have sex, they will NOT have an orgasm - and so rob their partners of the pleasure of pleasing them.

Or they will not do certain sexual things... etc. etc. etc.

BTW men do they same thing.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;243095]
Even if they have sex, they will NOT have an orgasm - and so rob their partners of the pleasure of pleasing them.... BTW men do they same thing.[/QUOTE]

I've never withheld an orgasm to rob my partner of the pleasure of pleasing me.

Did not say YOU did. I said some women do.

[QUOTE=headhead;243100]I've never withheld an orgasm to rob my partner of the pleasure of pleasing me.[/QUOTE]

I once was with a guy that did. Of course he never admitted that was why, and I didn't see it at the time. I was just learning BJs and had yet to finish him without him stepping in by hand. He could tell that doing so was an ambition of mine.

Hindsight is 20/20. I now realize it was a blatant manipulative move on his part. But I discovered later that he was also a shithead addict. They're good at being manipulative.

Maybe I'm dense, but I don't get it. What was he accomplishing?

Getting me to keep trying and keeping my self-esteem so low that I stayed with him instead of being alone, even though he didn't deserve me. See, I'm a pleaser by nature. By not allowing me to accomplish my goal of finishing him, he kept me feeling unworthy, which kept me attached to him, and kept me trying.

This wasn't him simply not coming. This was, one unsuccessful time that I tried, he heard me mutter 'Cmon' under my breath and said incredulously, 'you WANT it to come???' Next time I tried, he actually STOPPED me. This was blatant.

I'm NOT a pleaser by nature but I like to play fair. If a man refused to orgasm - the reason is immaterial to me - I'll make him orgasm even if I have to resort to the "bull method" of sticking an electrode up his butt and jazzing him with a bit of current - bingo!

Gentlemen - don't make me play rough. Take it like a man and give it up!

"Give it up!" Spoken like a true woman. It reminds me of General Jack D. Ripper's line in Dr. Strangelove: "Women seek the life essence." (Followed by the admission to Colonel Mandrake: "I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I withhold my essence."

Of course, he was impotent. Try as I might, it's hard to imagine the idea of gaining power by withholding sex as other than a chick thing. And 40 percent who won't have sex with someone they're angry at seems unrealistically low.

This has been going on at least as far back as the 4th c. BCE. Just consult Aristophanes' play Lysistrata. I'm thinking I should update it and set the play in SoCal, written in Spanglish and retitled Liz Estrada

Good one! I was in Madison, Wisconsin, once looking for someplace to drink. We stopped at a bar called "Lysistrata" (I should have got the hint). In the foyer, my buddy said, "Hey, look at this: "Three Cuban lesbians in search of a roommate."" When we looked around inside, it was clear our kind wasn't welcome there!

[QUOTE=headhead;243131]Try as I might, it's hard to imagine the idea of gaining power by withholding sex as other than a chick thing.[/QUOTE]

Again, it was a manipulative tactic by an oh-so-skilled-at-manipulation, addictive personality. He saw my personal flaws and capitalized on them for his own gain. He was my first bf in several years, and I needed to be needed. The harder I had to try for approval/recognition/acceptance, the more attached to him I stayed. The more attached to him I stayed, the longer he could get whatever he wanted from me.

And it worked. Like a charm. The day he self-mutilated and made me watch, I was at such an emotional loss of wtf to do, I gave him the money for the hit of crack he said he needed to bring himself out of whatever issue of the moment he had going on. When I finally ended it, he faked at least two suicide attempts in two days, left me horrendous phone messages, and I eventually had to change my number in order to stay totally away from him.

And it's all partly my own fault for allowing myself to be that vulnerable and co-dependent at that stage of my life.

Wow. He sounds like a bundle of psychopathology. Self-destructive, hard-core drug user, with a hint of sadism. I imagine there were other red flags as well.

Perhaps I was trying to characterize people in a "normal" range. Women exercising the power of "yes" or "no" is just the way the world works.

A chick thing? Please - like you guys are all so above that sort of thing...NOT!

You don't withhold sex but you withhold emotional content making sex about as much fun as going to the dentist.

I dunno...some of us can take a fuck as just that; even in a relationship.

Naaah - I prefer my 'conflagration of the souls reaffirming life' kind of sex, tyvm.

Dream on, Gary. We can drain you dry and let you gasping for air.

And, yes, every woman I know has at some point used sex as a control device. I was amazed when I discovered how effective it was. Of course, I am now mature and do not do that any more.

....and if you collected a dime from every woman who actually buys the 'men TRULY NEED it' claim, you'd be flat broke.

[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;243154]

You don't withhold sex but you withhold emotional content making sex about as much fun as going to the dentist.[/QUOTE]

It truly is a measure of my cluelessness that I have absolute no idea whatsoever of what on earth you are talking about. Emotional content in sex? :confused::confused:

Explain this concept to me?

Meh, perhaps its a wasted effort. Do what you think is best...

Emotional content to sex? What is that? To the Internet!

There's a country song whose lyric is in part, 'hold me like you want to instead of like you have to'.

When applied to sex, does that help answer your question? There's a reason that one euphemism for sex is 'love making'. It's so incredibly easy to tell when your partner just isn't connecting with you but is going through the motions anyway. And EEK's right, it's not as satisfying that way, no matter how many orgasms there are.

Hmmm.... I see.

Well then, we should throw monogamy out the window (at least if this emotional content sex is important). I have a feeling that after having what you want, human nature dictates that you just hang onto it as part of the background after awhile.

I would note that guys do notice this difference as well (or so I've heard). Myself, not being the monogamous sort always hold women as if I want them (because I do! :D). Strange...

No, that doesn't necessarily mean we should throw monogamy out the window.....

The emotional connection between us increases the intensity of the experience. This is why I couldn't be The Booty Call when I tried. He didn't give a damn once he'd gotten off. In my relationship with T, part of the reason we try to make sure the other gets satisfied is because we love each other and want that satisfaction for them. The relationship is precisely WHERE the emotional content is born.

But then I'm a serial monogomist.

I still don't understand...

God it sucks being this stupid...

Sigh...

You're having sex with someone. There are two subjects there: the Sex, and the Someone. Which is the larger point? The difference is palpable. At least for me.

Except in the rare case of a quickie, for me the larger point is the Someone. When I say 'serial monogomist', what I mean is that I've never been one to 'date around' as they say. When I date, it's exclusively. And for me, it's necessarily the same with sex. It doesn't happen unless we're THAT emotionally connected to each other. Quickies will take the edge off of the desire...provide some release. But the power and intensity of the sexual encounter lies in the connectedness that's expressed by the acts. And that doesn't have time to get expressed in a quickie, where the point can seem to be the Sex instead of the Someone.

I realize my way isn't for everyone, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any other way. This is just how I roll.

AHHHH!!!

Now I get it a bit. Some someones are certainly better sex partners than others. Somehow though, I think I'm missing the point. Some someones, no matter how great the connection, no matter how wise, kind, decent and wonderful she is, sex is just not on the table, or not on the table over the long term.

Some someones, sex will be at the forefront just 'cause. Due to other factors (stupidity, evilness, meanness, whatever) sex will soon be off the table, but you know, you just gotta know how the sex is, regardless of all the rest...

I guess we're just different that way.

Some partners are indeed better than others. T is truly the best I've been with, and it's because he cares and listens, both literally and figuratively. I do my best to do the same for him.

There are times that it's all about the orgasm, and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's not always the sole ultimate goal. Most of the time it's an expression of our love and desire for each other. That's the emotional content that gives the experience so much more power for me.

Perhaps this forum just isn't representative of what you've experienced. Just because Helen treated you that way doesn't mean that's the norm. If you're not in the mood you're not in the mood, but teasing and withholding for the purpose of a power trip is BS.

Guys, please stop forgetting the centuries of history and then look at it from HER point of view. Women have spent most of that time being, well essentially, PREY or PLAYTHING or EVIL VILE BEING or SAINT - but hardly ever as just a woman - herself. Rape and abuse are very real hazards for women and most women who die at the hands of another are killed by some man who said he loves her.

So YES she's going to protect herself by getting any and all power that she can get and will use any means to get it.

It is immaterial that you'd never do that to her. Until she totally trusts you, she will keep her guard up. Think about it - how many times have guys tried to get into her pants by telling her that he adores her? It is all false, of course, and the guys think its all good but the message SHE gets is "all men lie". That is how "normal representative women" view men. Brutal, stupid, selfish, and over-sexed liars.

If she is playing power games with you, then you know she doesn't trust you.

[QUOTE=lnt1103;243465]Perhaps this forum just isn't representative of what you've experienced. Just because Helen treated you that way doesn't mean that's the norm. If you're not in the mood you're not in the mood, but teasing and withholding for the purpose of a power trip is BS.[/QUOTE]

I agree here. If I'm upset with my partner, the last thing I want is for him to get close enough for sex. No games or power trips intended.

However on the other hand, I've had sex plenty of times with my exes when I didn't want to, just to keep the peace and have even cried from self loathing at myself for giving in.

I have posted this before but it bears repeating:

My accountant has told me that the problem with Britain is that women control 53% of the wealth and 100% of the pussy! Not politically correct in his terminology but you get the point.

In my house, he doesn't get inside unless I want him there. But guess what, I don't get inside unless HE wants ME there either. I wouldn't call that me controlling 100% of the topic.

A few things duly noted:
It's rare that he doesn't want me there
It's rare that I don't want him there
If one of us starts out not wanting the other there, it's rare that we don't change our minds within a couple minutes.

However, the point about this being a partnership instead of a power trip remains.

The point being - if she's playing this game with you (because she does not trust you) - WHY doesn't she trust you?