Opinions on Pick up artists (PUA) and "The game"

[springfever]

Just wondered how many people here new about the PUA communist?
I find it really interesting, but some people are offended by it. If you have heard of it, what do you think of it? Guys; has it worked for you? Girls; Know of any guy's who use it? Offend you or interest you?

If you haven't heard of it, may want to check it out. Some interesting Psychological things.

[Brandye]

"The Game" says it all. This, too, shall pass and in a few years there will be some other magical technique guaranteed to help you guys get into our knickers. That will be crap as well.

[g-dubz]

I'm not a big fan of PUA. I do have The Natural Art of Seduction Richard La Ruina which are the basics of PUA which talks about eye contact and confidence which are useful, but their more advanced stuff are about being able to trick a girl into having sex with them.

For example, In one of his free PDFs, Richard talks about the "Lifestyle Seduction" where someone could be able to manipulate the scene around to trick women into thinking he's something he's obviously not, which is no different than lying.

Also PUA is more about quantity than quality (even though they say you can get 9's or 10's all the time). And most of all, its not designed for those of us that want a serious adult relationship. It's just for guys who just want to get laid very quickly with no repeat business who want to resort to trickery and deception (and alcohol) which is something I'm just not willing to do.

[EvilEvilKitten]

I find it SAD.

Men without the courage to be open, honest and patient aren't men worth having.

[big916]

There was a reality competition show years ago involving pua teaching guys with no experience how to talk to girls. The problem is they turn these nice guys into d-bags. The contributions from eek, Brandye, and doc are far more helpful.

[EvilEvilKitten]

If the guys these pua's tried to help would realise that girls are PEOPLE, they wouldn't be so scared about talking to them.

Say hello. Introduce yourself. Ask a question. Listen to her answer. Follow-up and accept whatever hint/statements she makes. Take her at her word and if she's agreeable, get her number for later. There's no rush here. There's no pressure.

[llovell]

I can safely say that any time I feel like a guy is trying to use some sort of trick or manipulation to get my attention, it's a massive turn off. It makes me feel as though he feels entitled to get into my knickers, and that feels predatory and sinister.

All of these strategies seem to boil down to;

Lie to women about who you are, to mislead them into sleeping with you.

I can't really get behind that. I don't see how it could be a basis for a healthy relationship, so I'm not sure these guys are being helped. Learning to see women as human instead of what they first thought (scary creatures) and what they are then taught (commodities), would do them a lot more good.

[EvilEvilKitten]

"You're a well set up guy. How do you feel about becoming Daddy? I want to have 6 kids."

[springfever]

I understand peoples points...I do find it manipulative...yet at the same time interesting.

If the guys these pua's tried to help would realise that girls are PEOPLE, they wouldn't be so scared about talking to them.

i would disagree with this...a lot of PUA is giving guys the confidence to approach women. Not putting them on a pedestal as untouchable, especially if particularly attractive. A lot of the guys doing it are idiots...agreed...however, I don't think most of the general concepts are bad.

A lot of girls flake on dates, or play hard to get or reject guys due to look to easily...maybe one could say they aren't worth having if that shallow...but it gives guys a chance to perhaps get the possibility of dates and stuff...

I don't agree with some of the "routines" and trickery, and same night lay, or "f*** and chuck" attitude.

...but it isn't all about that...sometimes about getting dates, meeting different people. Keeping your options open, dating around until you find someone who is right

...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a method something a lot of people on this site advocate?? And it is sending pretty much the same message but in a different format!

Also PUA is more about quantity than quality (even though they say you can get 9's or 10's all the time). And most of all, its not designed for those of us that want a serious adult relationship. It's just for guys who just want to get laid very quickly with no repeat business who want to resort to trickery and deception (and alcohol) which is something I'm just not willing to do.

...agreed...some of it is about that.

The problem is they turn these nice guys into d-bags

...I can see truth in this. But maybe it is because they find out it is so easy when you know how...and abuse that. Rather than using as a method to meet women, get dates , sex, fun; possibly a relashionship.

i guess it all depends on HOW you use it.

One thing I do think it advocates though is dating...hardly anyone I know dates these days. I agree with EEK, and Doc, and many others in dating around untill you find Mr/Mrs right. And life is too short to restrict to monogomy all the time! Almost everyone I know disagree's with me on this point! Some of the only people who agree. Who ask girls on date. ..Who asked me on dates where those who knew about/were into PUA.
...it seems people don't date these days.

Don't call me a slut for learninng about myself, and what I want and going about finding it! I would rather be seeing several people, and honest about my intentions, then to be restricted with one guy when I'm not sure/ready only to find he lies to me (which is waaay more offensive and hurtful than the actual cheating).

Anyway...sorry for the rant...think I got side tracked...

it's a good point though...whatever happened to dating??

[EvilEvilKitten]

Nevertheless - being manipulative is NOT the cure for thinking women, esp very attractive women, are untouchable. YOUR fears are YOUR problem. By being manipulative, you make YOUR fears MY problem and that's UNFAIR.

Man up or get the hell away from me, thanks.

Simply by having the courage to be yourself, going up and saying hello and asking a 'not stupid' question, listening and then responding to the answer, a man can learn what he needs to know without having to manipulate anyone.

Dating does NOT imply "just with you" btw. Nor does dating imply sex. Dating is going ssomewhere with someone for a specific event/function. Nothing more. Like me with my polo buddies or the Friday Evening Round Table Discussion Group.