I haven't a clue....

[Humble]

Hello Clarinet Phil,

I too am an introvert 'living in my shell', except that I am older than you in my late 20s. Just like you, I also haven't ever been in a relationship, have never asked a girl out, have never been kissed and so on and so on. Furthermore, just as you have indicated, I too don't dance and don't have any fun at parties - in fact I find them extremely boring and don't go to them at all. Heck, like you, I also don't drink alcohol, don't smoke... simply put, having my mind altered through consumption of chemicals does not appeal to me either. Why am I saying all this? Because I want to point out that it's not the end of the world. You can still be happy and do the things you enjoy... even if they amount to 'doing nothing' as you seem to indicate.

'Doing nothing', of course, never actually happens - you are always doing something - it's just that that 'something' might not be what others consider worthwhile activities - perhaps you are watching TV, or surfing the internet, or playing computer games, or doing something else - it may not be something considered socially popular, but you always are doing something...

Anyway, I can somewhat relate to you saying that you don't really want to hear a 'yes' when asking a girl out. I too wouldn't know what to do if I asked a girl out and she said yes - I wouldn't know what is the appropriate way to transition such a situation to a date, when is it appropriate to touch her, when is it appropriate to kiss her or indeed how to kiss her and so on and so on... plus I don't feel that my general circumstances are such that I should be trying to start a relationship anyway. Note that I use the word 'appropriate' here losely to designate 'right' or 'correct' - well I am sure you know what I mean.

I generally wouldn't go around revealing this information about myself (not that I hide it, but I wouldn't volunteer it on my own), but I thought you might take some comfort in knowing that you are not alone. You might also take some comfort in the fact that you need not be depressed or hating yourself for it - I am relatively content. Sure, feelings of loneliness do sometimes creep in, but when that happens the key is not to dwell on them. After all, some negative feelings would happen even if you were in a relationship - they might well be the opposite ones, such as "Can I finally have my peace and quiet?" or "I want to do X which interests me, but now I am forced to go to event Y (say a concert) and am extremely bored as a result". I guess what I am trying to say is that dwelling on negative feelings will get you depressed regardless of whether they are feelings of loneliness or feelings of need for more independence - focus your thoughts on something else than these negative feelings and you will feel much better!

I certainly don't want to discourage you from trying to change yourself if you so wish, but you can also try to look at your situation with philosophical detachment and not worry about it so much. I certainly wouldn't recommend that you go get medicated like some posters did - that is an extreme 'solution' and these drugs have side-effects, but ultimately it's up to you whether you want to go that way.

Anyway, heads up and good luck!

[LickMyGamete]

Wow, you're really taking "The Selfish Gene" to heart, aren't you?

Phil - the reality is YOU are being shallow. You're so focused on HOW the emotions feel, that you're missing the WHOLE POINT OF THEM! Animals don't "desire" someone else just so they can sit around and try to unravel how/why they feel it. That's there so they can grab a mate and start a life and raise children..spreading their genes. That is not shallow, that's incredibly real. Shallow is standing idly by, which is what you're doing.

You're emotions are telling you something, you might want to turn your brain down and act on it.

.....

wow, that military suggestion was incredibly off..

[Ephemera]

Rationalizing unhappiness isn't the answer.

That's covering up the problem.

[bayonet777]

dont knock it till youve done it

[Clarinet Phil]

Originally Posted by LickMyGamete

Wow, you're really taking "The Selfish Gene" to heart, aren't you?

Phil - the reality is YOU are being shallow. You're so focused on HOW the emotions feel, that you're missing the WHOLE POINT OF THEM! Animals don't "desire" someone else just so they can sit around and try to unravel how/why they feel it. That's there so they can grab a mate and start a life and raise children..spreading their genes. That is not shallow, that's incredibly real. Shallow is standing idly by, which is what you're doing.

You're emotions are telling you something, you might want to turn your brain down and act on it.

.....

wow, that military suggestion was incredibly off..

Shallow is sitting there and telling someone 'I care for you' or 'I went out and took a picture of this flower/bird/butterfly...and wasted and entire afternoon to take this picture for you because I know you like them and I want to see you smile' when you really know that really just want to hump her until you feel a little happy glow time...

[LickMyGamete]

Originally Posted by Clarinet Phil

Shallow is sitting there and telling someone 'I care for you' or 'I went out and took a picture of this flower/bird/butterfly...and wasted and entire afternoon to take this picture for you because I know you like them and I want to see you smile' when you really know that really just want to hump her until you feel a little happy glow time...

Phil, you're grasping at straws here. But either way, congrats on experiencing hormones. I don't know if yours are exactly raging or not, but welcome to what every single human male experiences. You're just a little late in the game, and you try to justify it with irrational logic.

You are so out of touch with what a relationship with a living breathing human is like, that you're arguing from a false premise. But yeah, keep thinking the panties come off as soon as she sees the picture of a butterfly you took for her..women are SOOO simple!

[Clarinet Phil]

Originally Posted by LickMyGamete

Phil, you're grasping at straws here. But either way, congrats on experiencing hormones. I don't know if yours are exactly raging or not, but welcome to what every single human male experiences. You're just a little late in the game, and you try to justify it with irrational logic.

You are so out of touch with what a relationship with a living breathing human is like, that you're arguing from a false premise. But yeah, keep thinking the panties come off as soon as she sees the picture of a butterfly you took for her..women are SOOO simple!

I'm not saying that. I don't think that, not so directly anyways. It's the accumulation of acting like you care, being charismatic, communicating and being vulnerable and everythign else. It becomes a question of what's happening because you altruistically want to engage in those things and what's happening because you know on some level that it's adding up points.

I know...my examples are a bad examples, but it's the idea that anything I do in a relationship is about getting her to have sex with me. That it's all about the display. It's the feeling that the emotions, the words, the actions the things that make a relationship a relationship...are just a giant lie, a means to an end.

To the point that the concept of a woman wanting to be with me is almost repugnant to me.

I'm trying to engage in a relationship with this one young woman. I suddenly feel so paranoid about everything. Like a switch in my head turned over and now...I don't know how to do this properly...I really like this woman...yet I get this feeling that I'm just going to screw this up.

[LickMyGamete]

Originally Posted by Clarinet Phil

I'm not saying that. I don't think that, not so directly anyways. It's the accumulation of acting like you care, being charismatic, communicating and being vulnerable and everythign else. It becomes a question of what's happening because you altruistically want to engage in those things and what's happening because you know on some level that it's adding up points.

I know...my examples are a bad examples, but it's the idea that anything I do in a relationship is about getting her to have sex with me. That it's all about the display. It's the feeling that the emotions, the words, the actions the things that make a relationship a relationship...are just a giant lie, a means to an end.

Lets put an end to this quickly:

So what happens after you cash in enough "points" and she has sex with you? According to your logic, that's it! You can stop pretending to care, doing nice things with her, you just do your "display," she drops her pants, and you're free to move on until you find someone better, or want sex with her again. If that's truly how you view a relationship, you might be better off getting a part time job and just paying a prostitute. Why spend months wooing a woman when you can earn enough money for sex with just a few hours worth of work? Do you see how illogical that is?

Originally Posted by Clarinet Phil

I'm trying to engage in a relationship with this one young woman. I suddenly feel so paranoid about everything. Like a switch in my head turned over and now...I don't know how to do this properly...I really like this woman...yet I get this feeling that I'm just going to screw this up.

That's natural. I've been through it, as well as every other human fortunate enough to live through their teens on this planet. I'm just 23, but looking back over my experience, I notice that every time I tried to force a relationship, ie. just going up to a girl and saying "you have pretty eyes, can I have your number?" it failed! I suppose it's for the better - I really didn't know any of them, and they didn't know me. However, when it happened naturally..we'll, she's now my wife. We were friends first, we enjoyed being with each and over time felt comfortable together..THAT's where our relationship came from. There wasn't this great big chasm that had to be jumped (and would make me just as cloudy as you feel), it was just a natural bridge to a relationship. So step away from that ledge, befriend her, and see where it goes. Who knows, once you get to know her better you might not even want to be with her.

[Clarinet Phil]

Originally Posted by LickMyGamete

Lets put an end to this quickly:

So what happens after you cash in enough "points" and she has sex with you? According to your logic, that's it! You can stop pretending to care, doing nice things with her, you just do your "display," she drops her pants, and you're free to move on until you find someone better, or want sex with her again. If that's truly how you view a relationship, you might be better off getting a part time job and just paying a prostitute. Why spend months wooing a woman when you can earn enough money for sex with just a few hours worth of work? Do you see how illogical that is?

It's a consisitency thing...I suppose. It's a intimacy thing as well.

And I'm terrified that that's what will happen. That I won't care anymore. I want to care...I like to care, but I just don't want it to all be a fraud.

[LickMyGamete]

Originally Posted by Clarinet Phil

It's a consisitency thing...I suppose. It's a intimacy thing as well.

And I'm terrified that that's what will happen. That I won't care anymore. I want to care...I like to care, but I just don't want it to all be a fraud.

You're way too dramatic. Frankly, it's annoying. Stop with the "Oh I'm worried I truly won't care about her, deep down inside," stuff. Just STOP.

If that happens, all you have to do is NOT COMMIT TO HER! You know, when you're dating and realize "wow, I truly don't want to be with her" or "God she annoys me"..you simply branch out and find other women to date.

Your problem is you're wasting your energy on speculation. You seem to be the type who sits at home worrying "I don't want to drive my car because I might get into an accident." You bring that same idiocy to relationships - "I don't want to date because I might not truly care about her, deep down inside."

Tell your brain to shut up and just go out there and do it. That's exactly what I had to do, the difference between us was I WANTED to change. If you don't want to change, then quit wasting our time.