Do Women Know What They Want?

[Doom Bat]

Funny/Interesting/Frustrating (depending who you are) Article:

http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~jenf/writing/rant04.html

I understand this article was most likely written out of frustration, but I can (and I'm sure others as well) relate with this guys sentiments. It's amusing the double standard women put on men (although I know society puts many double standards on women too, but that's a different topic) about what they seek in a man. I know that women seek a man with self-confidence/bravado/self-esteem, but many people also think that is incongruent with a "nice guy." I think that a balance can be achieved, but it's very difficult to make the "cool guy" and the "nice guy" be one person because the "cool guy" requires you to be somewhat cocky, maybe even somewhat of an *******, while the "nice guy" requires you to be sweet and caring and all that mushy stuff that the cool guy isn't. Do women want a two-face?

I've read books and forums that concern the whole "pick-up artist" strategies, and they laugh at the "nice guy" because he's just another chump who buys into the romance novel/movie culture of the "nice guy" getting the girl in the end. Their ideas are to treat a woman much more like another guy and to have her prove herself to him, and not to seem needy (obviously) and to draw her into his world. These are very sound ideas, but it's strange that women who read the books or hear guys discussing this are quick to put it down saying this such as, "That would never work on me," or, "Yeah, only the dumb sluts would fall for that stuff." Maybe so, I'm not a girl so I have no idea how women think and what they want in a man (or what they actually want in a man as opposed to what they claim they want).

I agree with a lot of the points that the "pick-up artists" attest to, and I've heard many accounts of their strategies working. Why was their matieral such a big secret though? Did women brainwash men into thinking that the "nice guy" is the way to go, so they would have free reign over the men they wanted to choose from? What of those proud few who just -know- what it takes to get a girl without any coaching or research on how to do so. Did they figure out how to read a womans brain, or is it women want a "nice guy" for a -boyfriend-, but they are attracted only to the "cool guy" or jock types that push all the right buttons.

Seems a backwards doesn't it? It does to me at least. They wish they could find the gentleman that would treat them they want to be treated, but they only get really hot and bothered when the badass with the cocky attitude brushes them off. Is it the "Mom said to never date those kinds of guys" attitude that gets a girl that way, or is it just nature/genetics that does that?

I don't know, but I think it's an interesting discussion at the very least. Perhaps some of you could bring your thoughts to the table on the matter.

[Beckeh]

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[sera300]

Originally Posted by Beckeh

I don't get it either =/ I'm a girl, but when I hear *another* girl bitching about *another* boyfriend, I kinda can't help but think.. "oh, and whose fault is that, huh?". Girls are so contradictory with this. Or just god damn blind.
Me? I like nice guys. And as far as I'm concerned they don't lack anything important that you'd only find in a "badass". But hey, I don't need anyone being cocky to me, and appearing cool to the masses is not an issue at all with me, 'cause all I need is for him to be right to *me*, and to fall for him on a *personal* level, the rest of the world can have a two fingered salute on that one.
My boyfriend? He's a very nice guy. Very sweet, very affectionate, and yes, I suppose you could say damn well mushy. I joke to him about how much softer than me he is. But in all honesty.. it doesn't mean he lacks elsewhere. Just because I don't constantly have to strive for his attention doesn't mean I lose any interest.. I can just as easily want to snuggle into his neck as I can feel more aroused by him than anything else. I don't see why the two things would come from different places in a girl's mind. Nice guys are the best, 'cause I do want someone that I can, above everything, genuinely share a mutual love with.
Just my two cents. But I could so easily be a minority after all haha =P

Well stated! You are not in the minority....with you on that! I look for the same...one can appear cool on the exterior but what he demonstrates to me is all that counts...and that he is respectful/polite to people in general. Love a man who has some inner mush...

[Beckeh]

Originally Posted by sera300

Well stated! You are not in the minority....with you on that! I look for the same...one can appear cool on the exterior but what he demonstrates to me is all that counts...and that he is respectful/polite to people in general. Love a man who has some inner mush...

Glad to hear it =]

Oh, but I agree with you on the people in general.. when I say how he appears to me, I don't mean he can generally be a jerk but nice to me. He has to be a genuinely nice guy, but if he doesn't appear cool to the masses or whatever.. so what? So long as I know how awesome he really is ^_^

[Doom Bat]

I'm not sure, I believe you two are very much a minority (at least in my context, which is college).

I do believe some women do mature with age and after enough flings with the "badasses" they decide they want to "settle down" and find a nice guy to actually have a long term relationship with, but I think by that time the "nice guy" is now the guy the girl is willing to settle for. Remember, I'm speaking of a majority I observe most often, and I'm also very much a cynic .

It seems to me the "nice guy" just needs to hang on by the emotional teat of the girl and continue to stroke her ego until she decides, "Well, maybe I'll give him a chance since he's been so paitent in waiting his turn." I mean, nice guys are quite disposable since they are so commonplace (at least among us nerds). Rarely do I see the, "Treat her like a princess and buy her a drink, yaddah yaddah" routine work. Girls leech off those guys to make themselves feel sexy and confident and then snub them when they make an advance. Instead, the challenge of attracting the arschloch is what's more attractive since women love the chase as much as any guy.

I just think the "wait and see" approach that girls keep feeding nice guys is unfair to the nice guy since he is abiding by -her- rules and is still getting no where. I myself am losing the nice guy attitude that I once held. I'm starting to treat women much more as guys with boobs and vaginas as opposed to some alien that claims to be human also. I just think it's frustrating to have this huge veil cast over the nice guy's eyes just so a girl can take her emotional dump on him and then fool around with his friends who don't let her do that to them.

[sera300]

Maybe you are looking in the wrong places and at the wrong time...I am long out of the "college girl" type...never was into the into it...I was too busy!

Nice guys rule! I think you will find the two women here are not in the minority; your just going for the wrong types of women!

[EvilEvilKitten]

Excuse me but you're getting confused. Not surprising really since what you have been reading etc hasn't told you the true definitions.

Cool/Cocky/Bad Boy = male, all male, confident, assured, poised, and has some style to him - no need to "pose" or play head games.

Nice guy = a decent human being, a gentleman, a man with some substance to his life and some substance to his character

Clearly, one can be BOTH.

BTW YES, most women know what they want, they just may not want to tell YOU. Until she TRUSTS you, she won't tell you.

[Beckeh]

Originally Posted by Doom Bat

I'm not sure, I believe you two are very much a minority (at least in my context, which is college).

Did I mention I'm 17 years old and in college myself?
But I do see what you mean. With high school and college, it does seem this way a lot. Hell, I think it is this way a lot of the time. I just never went in for all that myself.

You said you're losing the nice guy attitude.. if you're actually changing, that's one thing and is fair enough, but if you're trying to shake it off since it seems to get you nowhere.. that's silly. Hell, it might get you "further" but in the end, you should be true to however you feel, and act how you feel you want to, 'cause that's the only thing that's gonna get you what you truly want in the end. It's worth the extra struggle, ya know?

But yeah, maybe you are looking in the wrong places. Still so much pondlife around college =/ I was pretty lucky on that count.. my friendship group within college is just awesome, and that's where my boy came into it too, but there are still so many people around that.. well, it's just like high school still =/

[sera300]

Originally Posted by Beckeh

Did I mention I'm 17 years old and in college myself?
But I do see what you mean. With high school and college, it does seem this way a lot. Hell, I think it is this way a lot of the time. I just never went in for all that myself.

You said you're losing the nice guy attitude.. if you're actually changing, that's one thing and is fair enough, but if you're trying to shake it off since it seems to get you nowhere.. that's silly. Hell, it might get you "further" but in the end, you should be true to however you feel, and act how you feel you want to, 'cause that's the only thing that's gonna get you what you truly want in the end. It's worth the extra struggle, ya know?

But yeah, maybe you are looking in the wrong places. Still so much pondlife around college =/ I was pretty lucky on that count.. my friendship group within college is just awesome, and that's where my boy came into it too, but there are still so many people around that.. well, it's just like high school still =/

Still, look at the age gaps...you are 17...I am 42; similar thoughts of a man. I do agree with EEKs definitions but she knows the deal with the mind games which encountered when older then college age....

[EvilEvilKitten]

LOL Don't I ever?! You'd be surprised how many people, men and women both, carry over the same ideas about sex from high school. Terrible!

This is one reason why I recommend 'dating' as many people as you can before you try being exclusive. You have to discover what you require in your life partner. In this exploration of their options, most people leave high school ideas behind them. But if you go exclusive before doing this exploration, your chances of finding the right partner for you and of finally growing up are slender.