More than just friends

[Coder]

I'm sure this has been asked before.
I searched but didn't find anything.
First time posting here too

I have known this girl for about 6 - 7 years.
We met at work (neither of us work there anymore).
For the first 2 years we never said much to each other, just work related talk.
After awhile we started talking about personal issues (problems, likes, dislikes, etc.).

We have since become very close. Especially in the last 2 years. Best friends. She has even mentioned the word "Soulmates" a few times.
We have alot in common, know each other very well. I can feel her emotions very well usually
Being there for each other whenever its needed. Financial needs included. And we don't even bother keeping track of who owes who what or anything.

We have had many discussions that are very personal.
We hug often, and have kissed a few times (although we did have a few drinks that day).
We talk to each other often and ususally see each other 3 - 4 times a week.

She wants to remain friends (although she has never specifically said that, just hints and other little cluse), I would like to be more than friends with her.

One problem though is that shes in a relationship currently (more on that in a minute).
Shes not really happy, at least not as happy as she could be. I have seen her happier.

And she also does not seem to get treated as well as I think she should be.
For instance, earlier this year, she went to mexico to have some wisdom teeth pulled (it costs like half the price compared to here in the states).
Bad idea.
She was in pain for months afterwards.
For the first few weeks she could only eat soup. One weekend, no food in the house that should could eat, and her "sweety" was "to tired" to even go to the store to get her food. I found this out the next day and took care of her.

One other issue going on here is she is in a lesbian relationship. For about 2 years now.
I get along well with her gf. In fact I always help with the holiday dinners and such (she says I'm the only one that can cut the veggies right ). I also get the feeling she things I'm borderline gay, since my friend has said I'm very sensitive.
Its her first lesbian relationship. Shes still not very comfortable about it. Shes still afraid to kiss her gf in public, even at gay bars (I go there with them sometimes).
Neither her mom or brother know about this. Her dad does but hes a very open and relaxed sort of person so she had little fear of telling him.
They have had a few fights.
One was pretty bad, her gfs daughter kept treating here like crap and her gf never did anything about it. Her gfs daughter has since moved out, but the fact that her gf never tried to do anything about the situation leads me to think that there is a bigger problem here.

During those times, she has suggested we move in together. She has suggested it other times as well.

I really treasure her friendship a great deal, but want more.
But she doesn't feel the same way. If she wasn't in her current relationship, she would (she admitted that to me about 1.5 years ago).

I have heard that one way to introduce the idea of a romantic relationship date other people. The thinking behind this is something like:
"your friend may not be seeing you in a "romantic" light. But when they see that someone else sees you that way, they may start to feel that way. It could produce the response you desire".
Jealousy can be a strong motivator I imagine.

Something like that actually work, or at least have any possibilities?

Any other ideas on what can be done to get things to go up a level?
I don't want to do anything like break up her current relationship. Besides, that could easily backfire.

[WallyLlama]

Interesting situation and one that doesn't lend itself to a simple word or two of wisdom.

One thing that stands out to me is the hint that you seem to want to "rescue" her from her current relationship. If you'll take a vew moments and read some of the threads here you'll find that rarely works. People select partners for complex reasons, but they do make the choice. Getting them to make a different choice is usually an exercise in futility.

I don't see the fact that her current partner is same-sex as that germain to the question, although I'm quite sure others will not agree. I personally see no reason to complicate a relationship issue with questions about sexuality.

I'm sure there's some validity to the technique you've asked about, but I wonder if it's consistent with your character. Can you use someone else to get what you want? How will you feel about that and, more importantly, how would she feel about you if it became apparent that's what you did?
If you play the game well, I'd imagine her and her partner will be very happy for you.

It's very noble and admirable that you don't want to break up her current relationship, but the harsh reality is there is no way she's going to be with you in more intimate way unless the current relationship ends.

It sounds like you'd like her to end it and then come to you. Probably not going to happen. Grow some courage and get serious with her by telling her how you feel. (I probably should have added "again.&quot Let her know that you are finding it difficult to keep your relationship the way it is and you'll have to distance yourself some if she's not interested in more. (The threat of loss is a big motivator too.) Then do it and start looking.

Otherwise, you're being used. Nothing wrong with it if that's what you want out of life, but be prepared to continue to be her rescuer, her knight in shining armor who peels the veggies.

[Muppet74]

now Wally...that's not a nice thing to say... *tisk tisk tisk*

ok...he's right about the should not define the sexuality portion of her life right now...one...she could really be into chicks..or...it could just be a means to an end...some say that lesbians realtionships are better as we know ourselves better (men...do u know us??? hmmmm.. )

you may want to rescue her from her current relationship...but yeah...agree here with Wally (Dude...you and B are wayy cool...have answered some really cool Q's throughout these past couple of months - or come up with some doozies of thoughts)
So....CODER....yeah...not good idea, let her make the decision...or else...it will bite you on the ass and you'll be left in the dark. If I'm ever in a "thing" with someone, and my friends don't get good vibes...I usually ask...then think about it and do what's right for me...but it doesnt' nec.pertain to most...some can't handle the critism... so all in all...let her find out if it's a good one or not...on her own...no whispering sweet nothings in her ear about it...she might come back and throw her Chardonnay in your face...NOT COOL...

Just be there for her...hold her hand and give hugs...Maybe think about getting into your own relationship with someone else...or at least TRY dating (whether serious or not)...get out..have fun...RELAX...

My 3 things I believe in totally -
Communicate - thoughts, concerns, ideas, love...
Compassion - show empathy, friendship, and sharing hugs when needed...
Connection - if it's not there in first place (ok...a few dates might just be needed to figure out that this person isn't a complete goof)...but have something - either mentally, physically, emotionally and sexually...

if you don't have that....you might have some trouble...(and this is for anyone reading this...not just Coder...)

[Coder]

WallyLlama, no, I'm not the type to go out and use someone for that purpose. Although there is this girl at work who is in the same position. So if we work together, maybe we can both get what we want. Or maybe we will find out that we like each other (she asked me to meet her at a karaoke bar this coming saturday. She first asked me to come that saturday, but I had to work early sunday morning).
Although I don't really like the idea that much because it does involve deception. It was just a thought.

And I don't feel I'm being used at all. She does ALOT of stuff for me. For instance, last week my car threw a rod (with pieces coming out through the block, joy). She just bought me a car (used for $800). And no, shes not rich. She struggles with bills etc. like everybody else. Shes taken care of me when I was sick, helped me pay my bills when I was out of work, fed me, etc.

And one part I forgot to mention, when she started this relationship, I was still married (technically still am, but been seperated for 2 years in february).
So even though we were getting closer at that point, we couldn't be together.

I left my wife (she cheated on me more than a few times, she told me), about 3 months after this girl started her current relationship. And I knew about it of course.

I brought the sexual bit because she still does no seem comfortable with it. Its her first one and she still doesn't seem to be adjusting to it very well.


Muppet74, Communicate, Compassion, Connection.
We have all that.
We have alot of the same likes and dislikes. Often we know what each other is going to say before its said.
We can each tell when the other is sad, ill, mad. etc. without a word being said. And we have talked about those things.
We tell each other things that we would never tell anyone else. And we have told each other "I love you" (with and without the "as a friend" part).

And if her current relationship ends, I much prefer it be HER choice as opposed to her gf's choice.

[WallyLlama]

We need to understand that two people can "use" each other and both benefit. If it gets too intense it's called "codependency" in psychological circles.

The problem with it is that it can work very well and mask itself as a relationship.

We get comfortable with someone, learn that we can count on him/her, and if it works both ways... well, both parties might decide to increase the stakes, so to speak, by taking the relationship to higher levels.

When one party makes that decision and convinces him/herself that going to the next level would be "good" for the other person... well, that's not equality in a relationship. No, we're rarely at exactly the same place in a relationship, but we ought to be close.

My point was the relationship has been working well for both of you exactly as currently constructed.

One of my favorite sayings (not original with me) is that love is not about gazing into each other's eyes. It's about looking in the same direction.

The theme here seems to be that you believe it would be best for her to dump her current partner and be with you. Let's not forget that she chose her partner and she continues to choose to stay with her.

If you have the communication, you could tell her what your hopes are... reality suggests she's not looking in the same direction you are - that's why you wanted to make her jealous in the first post, to change her view.

Or maybe deal with the fact that you're "technically" still married, so you're not available to her anyway.

See, all of the reasons you're offering for why you and her are not a couple don't change the fact that you're not really a couple. And you would be if that was what you both really wanted.

[oberon]

I think the first step here for both of you- before you can even think about being in a relationship together- is you BOTH need to be single. You're separated and she's in a relationship... it really doesn't matter with whom. (I know it's not really germane to your question, but I wonder, why after two years you aren't divorced? Is there some chance of reconciling? Anyway...)

It's also going to take both of you to decide this. YOU may want a relationship, but if she's not willing to leave the person she is with now- for whatever reason- then it's pretty much a no go.

Step one... get to a place where a relationship is even possible.

Take care.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (oberon @ Dec. 06 2004,23:38)]...I know it's not really germane to your question, but I wonder, why after two years you aren't divorced? *Is there some chance of reconciling...

I have not seen my wife since I left. No chance of reconciling.
Divorce is not filed because basically, I can't afford to pay for that right now. Job marketing in this area is not great. Especially for my field (IT). The "dotcom" bust made alot of people move here. Anway...

And yeah, I know that going up a level in our relationship, would require both of us to be available. I don't believe in being in any part of a cheating uhm... "affair".

Yeah part of me wants a more intimate relationship. But another part of me is a bit afraid that if we do, we could never go back to being friends again. And that does scare me.
I'm just a bit confused right now about the whole thing.

I just started a new job last wenesday. By friday, this girl there asked me out on friday, to go out on saturday (well, to meet her at a karoke bar). I couldn't go that weekend, cause I had to work sunday morning. But plan on going this coming saturday.

[oberon]

So much of this depends on her and what she's willing to do.

Honestly, I don't know how you could procede with a romance in the current situation. If you talked her into leaving her partner and then things didn't work out between the two of you... well, I don't see that as being good for your friendship.

I think- if it were me- I'd just remain her friend and see if she's ever going to separate from her partner. BUT, I don't think I'd put MY life on hold... you might just find someone out there who's just right for you NOW.

Good luck and take care.

[Coder]

I could never go so far as to tell her to leave her current partner, Thats why I said "And if her current relationship ends, I much prefer it be HER choice as opposed to her gf's choice."
I guess I could have made that a little clearer.

This new girl at work is defintely showing some interest.
She's cute, seems pretty nice, good sense of humor.
The biggest plus us shes a computer geek like me
Well, maybe thats not the biggest plus, but at least its someone that I can talk tech stuff about and she would understand.

I have been kind of putting my life on hold for her, but thats mainly because of the job market. Hard to find steady employment. I didn't really want to look for someone if I could not even afford to take her out to dinner. At least thats what I told myself. I didn't go out looking, although I did go to a few bars a few times, mainly just looking for something along the lines of a one night stand (and thats not something I would normally do).

And for the first year of me being "single", I wasn't even considering entering a new "romantic" relationship.
Of course if my friend showed a desire to enter into a relationship of that type, I probably would have went for it.

WallyLlama, You said:
"We need to understand that two people can "use" each other and both benefit. If it gets too intense it's called "codependency" in psychological circles.

The problem with it is that it can work very well and mask itself as a relationship."

Ok so how do you tell the difference.
If you have a intimate, loving relationship, wouldn't that also be a form of "codependency" ?

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies.

[Coder]

I really didn't think it would happen, but I have actually done a big turn around here.

This at girl work (I never told her of my idea), I think she really desires me. Shes asked me out twice. For Thursday night (we both have friday off), and Saturday night.

I haven't had that feeling of someone that actually desires me for a long time.

Feels good.

Now I worry that my friend well be jealous.
I sincerly hope not.

Now what the hell do I do if she gets jealous?
Age may be an issue here too.
I'm 44, my friend is 35, this other girl is 23.

My friend wants to talk to me about it tomorrow (thursday).
Wish me luck.