when are you ready for kids?

[RedRoses]

I've got a question about the decision-making-process before you start thinking about actual conception. I did find a checklist about living together, but is there a checklist for when you are ready to have kids in your relationship? Perhaps I've missed it in the index... I know people say you're never fully ready. But sure there must be things you'd like to consider before you decide to have a baby?

I did not know if I should place this thread here (conception/pregnancy) or 'married&long term-relationships'... Please pardon me if I put it in the wrong space.

[dancingdoc2]

Thanks for the excellent question--and for looking in the Index!

We do not have children so the living together checklist is as close as I dare go with the question. It does have some information to be considered, however, such as establishing a life together, first, as a couple; taking vacations and seeing places, SAVING MONEY, having enough money to support a third person, etc., et cetera, etc. So, you may want to read that section, again.

BIG on my list of specifics is being emotionally ready to take on the task of caring 24/7 for someone else. I've done this for a senior adult and it can be very trying. Having a child(ren) can be such a blessing, yet I would think a couple has to be mentally prepared for the challenges that will follow. Essentially, your life will not be your own for the next twenty years, unless you are one of these self absorbed jerks (male or female) who believes that once you have a child they can be raised by a nanny, daycare people, or left to their own devices when older.

If you are going to have a child, please plan on parenting that child yourself (with assistance) but do not give his or her care over to daycare or a nanny. Why go to work only to use your salary to pay for what you could do for and by yourself BETTER by being a stay-at-home mom or dad?

What galls me the most is not that couples jump in financially unprepared, or, thinking they "have a clue" when they do not, or that "it will all work out as we go along", is that they plan from the start to begin a family and then turn over the care and feeding to strangers. The deal breaker for me is that if one of you cannot be at home doing the raisin' then do not bring a child into the world.

[RedRoses]

Thanx for your reply doc

I like your comments on raising. I do have the intention of raising a child myself (staying home), but I'm usually looked at by others as if I'm totally out-of-my-mind, whenever I say this (no matter if they are or are not parents themselves). I am highly educated, so people think I should be worrying about my 'career'. They act like raising a kid is the 'minor' thing. While I think it's a major job that requires a lot of attention. If people can write staples of books reaching to the skies as if it were skyscrapers, how can we think parenting is such a piece of cake? I would like to do that in an (as much as possible) peaceful environment. And if I can, I also would very much like to breastfeed for his/her health, but also for the bonding. So I don't think I'd want to suck the breast-milk out with some kind of device and put it in a bottle (not daily anyways). I wouldn't know if you'd need to keep on the full time-parenting when a child is older. After all, they do go to school, perhaps pre-school. And by that time, I see no problem in using that time for other purposes

But that's far, far away... Maybe it seems crazy that I thought about these kind of things... I reckon I can not plan or oversee everything. There's so much going on when having a baby! But just because it's so much, I think it's worth thinking about Also: I came up with this question, because about a half year ago I was confronted with an unexpected pregnancy and (unfortunately) nature solved this by itself... So I am very much busy with the question of having children now... My bf does not want it, only 'when it just happens' (like it did). I feel strengthened by your remark of how it does not work to say "it will all work out as we go along". That's what my bf says and I really don't think it will... He thinks that when this 'accident' does happen again, I'll just all the sudden go and live with him and have a baby. That's way too much and seems very stressful. I was and am not comfortable with the idea at all... With the living-together-checklist in one hand: there are too many things not discussed or not provided for... (I do know that emergencies sometimes require a different approach, but: no)

So, it seems like I'm in this kind of a there's-a-catch-situation. He does not want to plan anything, because the favorable choice to him is: kids=no and preferable continues this living-apart-together-relationships. For me: the favorable choice would be: kids=yes, if I can plan things ahead... Though I don't think I'll be able to raise one completely by my own (iow: without a relationship).

Come to think of it, my question was: when are you ready to have kids in your relationship? I also feel like my dilemma is becoming: What if I'm ready to start planning for kids, but my relationship is not?

I'm sorry of this post is not as clear and maybe even confusing... It's kind of how I feel. It feels so weird: how can I even think about comparing the desire of having a little human-being that has not even come into existence, with the love for a man of flesh and blood that loves me and means so much to me?

[dancingdoc2]

Originally Posted by RedRoses

Thanx for your reply doc

You're welcome. I hope I was of some help.

I like your comments on raising. I do have the intention of raising a child myself (staying home), but I'm usually looked at by others as if I'm totally out-of-my-mind, whenever I say this (no matter if they are or are not parents themselves).

Please understand that while these "others" may have justifications for turning the raising over to "others", they are still in the minority. If people want to criticize today's children and all that they are doing wrong, in many respects they have to look no further than the latch key, absentee parents, and, one or both parents who have come from homes in which their treatment and "training" were less poor.

I am highly educated, so people think I should be worrying about my 'career'.

You can. You can also work in six years or so when your children are in school. One of my neighbors is a vet. and her husband is a nurse. They recently had a baby girl and they work opposite shifts in order to both mother and father their child.

They act like raising a kid is the 'minor' thing. While I think it's a major job that requires a lot of attention.

Of course it is a major undertaking. Many fail to realize that they are raising adults to be, not kids who will somehow become an adult by virtue of reaching the age of majority.

If people can write staples of books reaching to the skies as if it were skyscrapers, how can we think parenting is such a piece of cake? I would like to do that in an (as much as possible) peaceful environment.

People tend to ignore the obvious--the prison population as one obvious example.

And if I can, I also would very much like to breastfeed for his/her health, but also for the bonding. So I don't think I'd want to suck the breast-milk out with some kind of device and put it in a bottle (not daily anyways).

Breast milk is the same whether it comes directly from you or a bottle while you are unavailable. There are good logical sensible reasons for bottling your milk, so don't discount or turn down the notion until you learn more.

I wouldn't know if you'd need to keep on the full time-parenting when a child is older. After all, they do go to school, perhaps pre-school. And by that time, I see no problem in using that time for other purposes

Of course you can. Children go thru phases and this includes levels of maturity and independence. You also need time for self, so babysitters (family if available) are a welcome assistance. As a child goes off to school, use the time to get things done around the house and/or to take up a hobby, go to the gym, etc., or work part time during the time they are gone. When they return home sometime in the afternoon, someone should be there, also.

But that's far, far away... Maybe it seems crazy that I thought about these kind of things... I reckon I can not plan or oversee everything. There's so much going on when having a baby! But just because it's so much, I think it's worth thinking about

You are doing what more people should do. Whatever your ideas or plans, they can always be adjusted and modified, later, as the need arises. The point is, one should have a plan no matter how temporary. Without a plan we have no direction.

Also: I came up with this question, because about a half year ago I was confronted with an unexpected pregnancy and (unfortunately) nature solved this by itself... So I am very much busy with the question of having children now... My bf does not want it, only 'when it just happens' (like it did). I feel strengthened by your remark of how it does not work to say "it will all work out as we go along". That's what my bf says and I really don't think it will... He thinks that when this 'accident' does happen again, I'll just all the sudden go and live with him and have a baby. That's way too much and seems very stressful. I was and am not comfortable with the idea at all... With the living-together-checklist in one hand: there are too many things not discussed or not provided for... (I do know that emergencies sometimes require a different approach, but: no)

"But: no"
I believe you have answered your own questions.

Your boyfriend is not in commitment mode. He is not or has not (yet) committed to you, so what makes you believe he will make a devoted father?

I strongly urge you to not become pregnant unless and until he has done the following:
a) popped the question
b) presented a ring
c) set a date
d) said "I Do"
e) framed the signed contract
f) and whatever else you require of him in order to support and make you feel secure, loved, desired, wanted, and demonstrating how he will keep all this his top priority

So, it seems like I'm in this kind of a there's-a-catch-situation. He does not want to plan anything, because the favorable choice to him is: kids=no and preferable continues this living-apart-together-relationships. For me: the favorable choice would be: kids=yes, if I can plan things ahead... Though I don't think I'll be able to raise one completely by my own (iow: without a relationship).

Until he decides that he cannot live life well without you, that his life in a committed relationship with you will be greater than the sum of its two parts, he will most likely continue to get whatever he can get from you. You have to decide at some point how much of you you are willing to continue handing him. Right now, it seems he is a typical guy who is into himself, first, and everything else after this. Don't look for you to come first anytime soon. Sooner or later he will have to make a decision about whether or not he wants you and what you can accomplish as a partnership, or, just what you hand him. What is your plan?

Please do not think that by marrying him, you can change him. Your man is not ready for you at the present time. Ask a widow the question about whether or not she can raise a family on her own. This is where Plan B comes into play as well as family and friends for your support group.

Come to think of it, my question was: when are you ready to have kids in your relationship? I also feel like my dilemma is becoming: What if I'm ready to start planning for kids, but my relationship is not?

There is a very simple and logical solution: It requires two "yeses" and only one "no" for a plan to either proceed or not.

I'm sorry of this post is not as clear and maybe even confusing... It's kind of how I feel. It feels so weird: how can I even think about comparing the desire of having a little human-being that has not even come into existence, with the love for a man of flesh and blood that loves me and means so much to me?

You have written a very clear and well thought out paper. It is refreshing for me at least to read and offer ideas for your consideration.

[woogydice]

I am sorry to say, but doc is right. You need another "yes". Your pregnancy will not change your boyfriend. Unless you are incredibly wealthy I wouldn't recommend it.

[RedRoses]

Thanx again for all the usefull questions and thoughts

Breast milk is the same whether it comes directly from you or a bottle while you are unavailable. There are good logical sensible reasons for bottling your milk, so don't discount or turn down the notion until you learn more.

I'm not saying that bottling it makes it less nutritious. I'm just saying I'd like to do it for a bonding purpose as well; that's not in a bottle ;-)

I strongly urge you to not become pregnant unless and until he has done the following:
a) popped the question
b) presented a ring
c) set a date
d) said "I Do"
e) framed the signed contract
f) and whatever else you require of him in order to support and make you feel secure, loved, desired, wanted, and demonstrating how he will keep all this his top priority

Not being disrespectful in any way to people who do, but marriage signifies no meaning to me. I know it's sad, but true Two reasons for this
1) I consider marriage to be nothing more than a contract, that gets broken whenever desired. There is also no romantic value to it to me. I think this opinion stems from both my family-history (marriage meant nothing and didn't get them anywhere) as history itself in which marriage was only thought up to imprison someone (mostly the girl). I would like to view it differently and I'm happy for those who can... Maybe some day I will.
2) My bf has been married before. The marriage did not last long. The phrase 'till death do us part', means nothing more than 'till the relationship dies'. In fact: marrying her had no added value to the relationship as it were before, according to him... Iow: marriage or no marriage; the relationship will end just as quickly whenever desired. So I know to him it has as little meaning as it does to me...

You see, I will only use this contract if it is beneficial (financially for example). So the only step left in the plan would be:

"whatever else you require of him in order to support and make you feel secure, loved, desired, wanted, and demonstrating how he will keep all this his top priority".

So I guess my quest would be finding out what is this 'whatever'. I'll give it some thought and come back to you You also ask me what my plan is...

"Until he decides that he cannot live life well without you, that his life in a committed relationship with you will be greater than the sum of its two parts, he will most likely continue to get whatever he can get from you. You have to decide at some point how much of you you are willing to continue handing him. Right now, it seems he is a typical guy who is into himself, first, and everything else after this. Don't look for you to come first anytime soon. Sooner or later he will have to make a decision about whether or not he wants you and what you can accomplish as a partnership, or, just what you hand him. What is your plan?"

I really don't know... A plan for what exactly?

Please do not think that by marrying him, you can change him. Your man is not ready for you at the present time.

I do not mean to chance him. It is confusing though. I've asked him about kids when we started this relationship and he was open to it. He never indicated that he wouldn't want to live with me. Talked about houses all the time, making jokes about how my stuff were all around his house, saying that was the way I would slowly start moving in. It came to me as a surprise when I indicated that I wanted to live with him, he said he wouldn't and had actually never enjoyed it in previous relationships... You should know: my bf is chronically ill for the past 5-6 years. He's a guy who always needed a lot of time for himself, but now he just has always to little energy. He tires himself out; putting all his energy into his work. Always wants to do to much... About 6-7 years ago he was ready for a serious relationship with kids (the woman he was with at that time was not). But now he thinks it will destroy him. He loves me, doesn't want to loose me, but sometimes I feel like his life is to full to fit me in... I sometimes feel like this relationship takes more energy than he expected and that's why things have changed over the past 2,5 years...

I strongly urge you to not become pregnant

Well, that's what happened. Last time it didn't even took intercourse to get me pregnant. Just a tiny drop of his stuff flying away to the wrong place at the wrong time (I knew I was as fertile as hell, cause I track my cycles). And believe me, we do not have sex often. So it seems to me as a chance in a million! And I do not trust other preservatives, because then he actually comes inside me. If it doesn't work it's at the jackpot! We've already experienced a broken condom as well... He was so scared, really never seen him this way, so I took a hormonal emergency pill (even though I had quit the 'normal' pill for health reasons). It made me feel sick at the time, made me feel sick till months after... I feel like it really poisoned my body, feel like I betrayed my body. I know there's a (big?)mental aspect to this, but it made me decide never to do it again. And he accepts this, especially cause he knows how it tore me apart...

It makes it scary... And very confusing again: wanting something, not wanting it because he doesn't, not wanting it because I'm not prepared, not preparing cause he's not wanting it... I'm keeping track of my cycle to prevent it from happening, which actually makes me kind-off responsible for his wishes... And knowing one slip of the pen could cause it... Combining this with the pain of losing the other 'it', it's emotional turmoil to me...

Final note (of this post ): I love my bf. He's is the most special person I've met in my life so far. He is patient, kind and caring. He has the amazing power to accept people the way they really are (he should give himself the same treatment, which he sometimes forgets). He is the first person to really let me be myself. He helped me discover my body, even up to my first orgasm. He listens to me with an open mind and comforts me whenever I'm sad. He really is an amazing person. So it makes me feel guilty to have all these confusing emotions and sending my thought out on the internet... On the other hand: I need to understand what's confusing me and find a way. In order to do that, it really helps to read opinions and being asked questions, which I can not discuss with others... So I'm glad to have this forum :-)

[Ilovetolick]

All very valid and enlightening information! As a parent of three myself, I had a similar discussion with my daughter a few years ago. She was in the same mindset, I thought she was too young (and as a father, you're ALWAYS too young!) I bought a dog. Gave him to her as a gift and a lesson. The lesson in rearing an animal is patience. If she could not raise a dog, feeding, walking, training and most importantly, give him the attention he needs and deserves, how could she possibly raise a child? I'm happy to say, today I have one great dog!!

[RedRoses]

Just a question; how old was your daughter at the time? And did she have kids after 'raising' the dog?

Also, since you're a mom yourself, I'm just wondering if you could give some information on how you made this decision. What did you consider before becoming pregnant? What was on your mind? And/or perhaps: was there something different when having the second/third? Things you decided that should be different?

Your answer will be very much appreciated

[Brandye]

I wish I could give a definitive answer, but no one can. I have never had children and am now biological over the bar. As a very young adult, I was not interested in having children. In my very late twenties, I met Mr Right and we decided that we would have no children. We wished to become part of Doctors without Borders and serve children, and adults, in less wealthy places. He died shortly before we were to be married and, after more than a year's serious funk, I decided that I was not going through that again! "That" being swept off my feet and going through the decision making process regarding marriage, children and what to do with our combined life. I had my tubes tied and shortly returned to a previous lesbian relationship (make sense of that!).

I remain actively bisexual and spend a portion of each year with Doctors Without Borders and treat my medical practice almost as a miinistry (beats anything that passes for religion!). There has never been space for children in my life and I made two definite decisions - one with my fiance and one alone. I do not know which was more difficult.

At this point (early 50s) I have no regrets. Will I? I do not know. Am I a selfish bitch? I do not know. Interestingly, neither my sister nor I, each with careers and rather full lives, has ever been married or had children. Our younger brother is happily married with two kids in Toronto.

Women have asked me "why" and sought input for decisions on marriage, children and both. I can only give what is my experience. Regrettably, we cannot live one life with bairn and one without to compare the results.

[Ilovetolick]

Originally Posted by RedRoses

Just a question; how old was your daughter at the time? And did she have kids after 'raising' the dog?

Also, since you're a mom yourself, I'm just wondering if you could give some information on how you made this decision. What did you consider before becoming pregnant? What was on your mind? And/or perhaps: was there something different when having the second/third? Things you decided that should be different?

Your answer will be very much appreciated

Unfortunately, I cannot answer this fully as I am the father. In reality, when my wife and I talked of conception, it was not whether we we ready or had the room. It was finances! Even with insurance, raising a child is a huge expense we literally had saved for. This discussion was made before each child. As for my daughter, she chose not to bear at the time and I got the dog. Win-Win for me! I'm sure she will have what it takes to be a great mother. Right now she is taking my advice and enjoying childless life a little bit longer before she and her husband take that step.