I read and post a lot, but seldom start threads of my own, so this one obviously has me stumped and I could use the input of a few wise, experienced, older women. First, the background--I was a 20 year old virgin when I first slept with my late wife, 38 years ago. She'd been with plenty of boys, but for whatever reason, picked me--I now suspect because I WAS a virgin and she could train me to get what she wanted for herself sexually. Oh, we loved one another with a passionate devotion as well... She did train me to please her, and developed herself into a very sexually adept woman who could really enjoy it--extremely multi-orgasmic, knew what she wanted and needed and not shy about getting it. Her orgasms were always the same, whether her first of the session or fifth or tenth. She would require both internal g-spot stimulation with either penile penetration or two fingers inside, plus external stimulation, with either my tongue or her or my hand or my pelvic bone massaging her clitoris. She would tense her entire body, twitch, convulse and then have strong vaginal contractions with sharp intake of breath while her nipples became very hard and her entire chest turned red. If she wished further climaxes after mine, she would sometimes masturbate, either manually or with a vibrator, with me stimulating other parts of her body--inner thighs, nipples, etc. This was ALWAYS the case, and her orgasmic response was strongly obvious by this signature. I had a couple of woman after she died with whom, although the exact particulars varied somewhat, the general technique I used and responses I'd learned and come to expect and recognized still generally applied. Neither of them complained, both said I was the best they'd ever had and one of them, in her 50s, became a 'squirter' for the first time, so I figured I was doing okay.
When I first became intimate with my second wife, 3 years ago, she billed herself as an extremely sexual person. At the time, she'd been widowed for 5 years, had a long-distance boyfriend which wasn't particularly satisfying to her in either an emotional or physical way, and was on the prowl. She told me much about her history, which led me to think of her as just the type of woman I could come to love forever after. She once bragged that she and her late husband made love every night for a year before he died, and also told me she kept her boyfriend coming back in spite of the 5 hour drive by perfecting great oral on him. Under her bed was a box of dead batteries, several hundreds of them, which she admitted were from using her vibrator every night for the past 5 years. I figured I had a hot wire and would be very happy, sexually and otherwise, everything else being equal in the relationship... When we were first together, we'd make love for 3 hours from 11PM to 2 in the morning several nights a week, and often stay in bed together for several hours on weekend mornings. She always seemed happy to be making love with me, but she never had the kind of responses I'd learned to expect with my late wife or the other women I'd been with sexually. She did not enjoy internal manual stimulation at all and would never allow me to put a finger inside of her, thus no g-spot stimulation. She would never touch herself, ever, even though I asked her to, to help me see how she pleased herself. "Now that I have you, I don't need to do that any more," she told me. I also found her friend BOB (Battery-Operated-Boyfriend, the vibrator all those batteries had come from), and it was one of those external vibrators, confirming that she seemed to be an outside-only sort of woman--nothing went in other than the penis, it seemed. But she liked it, wanted it, so I was happy and went with it gladly and gratefully.
Fast forward now 3 years. She didn't work when we met, but now has taken on a bunch of part-time positions for the first time in her life. She'd been a stay-at-home mom and never had much of a career, so this was a big change for her. I suspect that she felt belittled next to my late wife, who'd had a long, successful, high-powered career, although I've repeatedly told her it made no difference to me, but now she's 57 and never having worked outside of the home so much, this has been a stress for her. Our sex life has diminished since she began to work these past 9 months, which I understand and accept--my late wife was always more randy on vacation or when she had time off, work is a stress which tires you out and diminishes sex drive, I get that and am used to it, but... Well, this has been a change way beyond that. When I confronted her a few months ago that our sex life has gone down the tubes, she finally admitted that she just does not get as much pleasure out of it any more--her climaxes, she admitted, were so weak that she could hardly feel them. Now, in contrast to my late wife and the other women I'd been with, she had totally different orgasmic responses in general--no vaginal contractions, no twitching, no toe-curling, no sex flush, no erect nipples, just what she described as "a nice feeling down there." Hmmmm... Now I'm wondering if she's ever had an orgasm at all? She told me she just does not feel "as much sensations as strongly" as before now that she's past menopause, but she was already past menopause when we met, and was "hungry for a sexual relationship that would satisfy her needs", as she told me then. So what gives? I told her that, as we age, we do lose muscle tone and that it would be good if she strengthened her PC muscles by doing keigels. I've done then over the last 10 years and my orgasms have increased a lot in intensity. My late wife was religious in doing them, and WOW! However, my wife is now giving me lip service--first she said she thought it was stupid and that it couldn't possible help. I showed her tons of research proving how important and useful these exercises are, and she promised to try them, but has not done so--she appears to have become indifferent to improving her sexual pleasure or in even having a sex life at this point. She does know that if she does not meet my sexual needs, I will become an unhappy camper, so she does 'give it up' to me a couple of times a week, but that was after I'd confronted her with the fact that we were down to less than once a week by then. But for me, I'd rather not even do it with her if she's getting so little out of it for herself--I only really like it if she likes it, and she seems unconcerned about liking it any more.
Help...
thanks,
Michael
Sorry to have to say this but your wife's problem is not in her body but rather is in her head. She just doesn't enjoy sex, sees no need for it, and most likely has never really had a full-blown orgasm - for whatever reason.
Certainly, one expects changes as one ages but methinks the lady used sex to get herself a husband and, once securely married, felt she could now "be free from all of that". I know - tis a nonsense, but some women truly use sex as a tool and take no delight in it.
It is time for you two to sit down outside of the bedroom and to talk SEX as in policies regarding and issues surrounding those policies. If you two seek counseling with a sex therapist be sure to shop around for a truly knowledgible person.
[color=green]mikkiji....though i'm only 29yrs old and haven't been put in your position, doesn't mean that i haven't thought about the future......but i can understand what you mean about having sex with someone only to find out that they really don't enjoy it as much as you thought......sometimes, i refer to it as the "trap"......that phrase that you said that she said would make you worry a lot about what kind of relationship you've gotten into "Now that I have you, I don't need to do that any more".......maybe it didn't come out the right way but i don't like it when women say crap like that
Anyway, moving on.....since i've thought about the possibility of my wife's libido decreasing over time, i've been researching ways about keeping it up......like yesterday, i posted a thread about electrostimulation.....well i was asking if anyone used a product that i ran across, which isn't out on the market anymore as it seems......But, I did manage to come across some other products that do the same thing and aren't as costly......I'm not really sure if this would turn things around, but anything is worth a try.....check this website out
http://smartstim.com
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[QUOTE=EvilEvilKitten;268804]Sorry to have to say this but your wife's problem is not in her body but rather is in her head. She just doesn't enjoy sex, sees no need for it, and most likely has never really had a full-blown orgasm - for whatever reason.
Certainly, one expects changes as one ages but methinks the lady used sex to get herself a husband and, once securely married, felt she could now "be free from all of that". I know - tis a nonsense, but some women truly use sex as a tool and take no delight in it.
It is time for you two to sit down outside of the bedroom and to talk SEX as in policies regarding and issues surrounding those policies. If you two seek counseling with a sex therapist be sure to shop around for a truly knowledgible person.[/QUOTE]
[color=green]i didn't wanna say it but EEK put it out there......i don't know the situation but i agree with her[/color]
A very wise woman once told me, "Women use sex to get Love. Men use Love to get sex." I see the point but... I don't know, I do not feel like I was 'trapped' or misled in any way--at least not deliberately. She's told me she talks to her friends, and says that all of them in her age group are experiencing similar issues--less sexually responsive after menopause. I have a hard time buying into that--as I said, my late wife and one of my post-widowhood lovers were post-menopausal, and they had terrific physical sexual responses--not at all decreased. Of course, I'd had 34 years of pushing my late wife's buttons and knew just how to do her. But, in any case, this seeming agreement from "all her friends" has her convinced that this is just what happens with age, period, no use trying to figure it our further, she got old and that is, sexually speaking, that, no use even trying to fight aging or regain the youthful enthusiasm she claims she once had for sex play. BTW--she turns 57 tomorrow. Otherwise, things go from great to okay to annoyed at each other for little things. I've weathered the ups and downs, both sexually and emotionally, of a long passionate, complicated and devoted marriage, so I do not expect marital bliss 24/7 year after year. Love, sex, affection and passion have their seasons. I get that. She's also told me that she and her late husband (she was married 25 years) never had marital problems, they had some sort of simple, uncomplicated, even-tempered life together. My late wife and I had a stormy 34 years together, filled with many challenges and complex emotional changes. Maybe we've just had very different lives and are on different wavelengths on certain things? I know you have a valid point, EEK--thanks for the perspective, I KNEW you'd chime in with something along those lines...!), but I was suspecting... well, something more complicated, or I dunno what--maybe I'm just reluctant to admit you're probably right.
sigh...
Michael
First and fore most.
Do not compare lovers. Just because your late wife did on thing doesn't mean everyone else will be the same. But that being said, your situation does sound like a trapping. I honestly don't believe she "saved" all her dead vibrator batteries. That right there sounds like a trap. Look at me I have an insatiable sex drive...yet suddenly I have none...
Dear Michael,
I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties and thank you for sharing your story.
Now, I am totally out of my league when commenting on this, since I'm no older, not much experienced and a will undoubtedly become wiser woman ;) There are just a few things I'd like to make a contribution to, which I hope may be valuable.
"She's told me she talks to her friends, and says that all of them in her age group are experiencing similar issue"
Just like Ducy comments that lovers can not be compared, which I agree to, this argument doesn't much stick. When I talk to a few girls on menstruation there's a chance some will be very troubled by it and others that don't notice much of it or anything in between. Does that mean they experience the same as I do? Or that it either strengthens or weakens my experience? Not much likely. Especially when you talk through details (which often doesn't happen) there are probably a lot of relative aspects to it. What I consider heavy may not be to another. Back to you and her: what her girlfriends consider "a lot of sex" may be once a week and their average being once a month, they faint when she says a few times a week. Perhaps their husbands would consider you the luckiest man on earth! ;)
Iow; there's nothing wrong with sharing with others, I'd actually recommend it; it keeps you from living in your own box. Getting a view of how others experience things, getting some reassurance and advice. But turning what others experience into "a reason" seems too much. I think you both should be focusing on your own experiences and of yourselves as a couple. The talk outside the bedroom EEK suggests seems excellent.
"no use even trying to fight aging or regain the youthful enthusiasm she claims she once had for sex play"
"she appears to have become indifferent to improving her sexual pleasure or in even having a sex life at this point"
Such phrases catch my eye and I think you have caught the essence of it!
It's not just that she has changed sexual desire, it's that she sees no point in getting it back. Setting your mind to something, is a mental thing.
The question would be the "why?" Considering your first remarks on her getting a job; I think she has found far more important things to do. A late desire finally coming to life. Perhaps she even feels more "useful" now, like she has more value, like she is "doing something with her life". A lot of people seem to have this great feeling of contribution to society through their work. Could it be her mind is set to this new passion and the old things; home, housekeeping, making diner, having sex, etc, are not as exciting anymore? That those just fade to the background?
This does not mean she trapped you ever, just that sex has decreased in importance and fulfilling her desires. And every time she sees the result of pleasure go down, it decreases in value even more.
"She does know that if she does not meet my sexual needs, I will become an unhappy camper, so she does 'give it up' to me a couple of times a week"
No offence, but she may be giving to you a lot more than is good for the both of you. Think of the energy it takes to do something you're not much into a few times a week? Not only will it drain her, it will not much likely give her any motivation. Most likely sex has become a chore to her. And perhaps it's even past that state; a chore to not even complain about, but something that needs to be done, just like brushing your teeth every evening.
And; does sex really make you a happy camper now?
This may be an odd suggestion, but: why not wait to have sex until she comes to you asking for it? There may be still a fire for sex within her, but she has no time to let it rise to flames. You seem like a patient and caring man. Back off and when she offers sex to you, look her into the eyes and see if the desire is there. If not, hold your horses and tell her you will only if she wants you.
I can't tell you where that road will go from there. Perhaps it will go something like: her panicking, uneasy cause something dropped from her routine, relieve she does not have to do it, desire building, BAM! And perhaps that only takes a week, 2 weeks, a month, etc? I just know that to me; having no sex is more bearable, than getting sex from someone that has no desire nor passion for it.
Stop trying to make him resigned to his fate here!
If he wanted a roommate, he'd have put an ad in the paper. He wants a WIFE and all that goes with having one. Just because she's post-menopause doesn't mean No Sex - often quite the reverse.
You might find this book helpful (hang on while I look it up) What French Women Know: About Love, Sex, and Other Matters of the Heart and Mind by Debra Ollivier
While periodically irritating, the lady (the author) does have a salient point.
Read it and then leave it lying about on the coffee table.
What she's doing once a week is Appeasement Sex - that is, sex not because she desires you but sex just to shut you up. If that's not the kind of sex you want, stop accepting it. "Come to me with fire in your eyes and desire in your heart or don't come at all." Because, face it, appeasement sex is like having sex with one of those blow-up rubber dolls they sell.