I don’t know where to post this, but I am horrified. This was posted today in the blog section of this site. It is an absolutely horrible study. Now I am just gathering this from the article because I can’t find the original. Anyways my first problem with the study is, they use a correlatives study to show cause and effect. I hope anyone who has ever taken a basic probability and stats class would know this. This technique is used quite often by groups that have no actual evidence but want to show something. My favorite example of this, I heard about in a human sex class, was a large study that showed a direct correlation between years we imported more bananas and the promiscuity of women. I have many more beefs with this article. Anyways I was wondering if anyone could find the actual study or just the name of it so I could look it up at my universities database.
NEWS: Sexually active teenage girls 'twice as likely' to become depressed
27 Sep 08
Young girls who are sexually active are far more likely to suffer from depression than those who remain virgins, according to a controversial new study. American academics found that teenage sex leaves many girls with feelings of guilt and low self-esteem.
Following a study of more than 14,000 adolescents aged between 14 and 17, researchers said that these feelings could be directly ascribed to sexual activity, rather than outside influences, such as family difficulties.
The findings, which will fuel the debate about sex education in schools, were hailed as 'groundbreaking' by British experts who promote abstinence.
But critics said that the research, which appears in the respected Journal of Health Economics, reflected American attitudes that did not necessarily apply in Britain.
Click Here to read more...
The “click here for more” is copied from the blog section, I thought it would copy the active link as well. Anyways, my point was more that the conclusions being made could not be made based off a correlative study. They tried to show that if a girl would just stay virgins then she would be happier. You can’t even show variable dependence in a study like this, meaning that that they are depressed because they are not virgins. My problem was how the article used the study, it may have been a good study, but all the study shows is a degree of correlation between the two variables (being a virgin and having depression) not that there is cause and effect. You know you have a problem when the Christian Medical Fellowship is using it as evidence.
Journal of Health Economics has articles listed on online for the last several years. put the journal in google and you will go right there.
The article you are questioning is abstract number twenty on the first page. If you want the entire article, you pay.
The report is both intuitively comfortable to those of us who deal with young women extensively and is supported by other studies. The abstract also points out that proper contraception ameliorates the effects. Also, predictable. None of us who spent our teen years sweating out the next period would question the findings. Constant worry and wondering can cause depression and there has been a demonstrated relationship between sexual behaviour in teen women and academic performance. I guess I made it past that one!
I am always fascinated by people trying to find a study who are "absolutely horrified" by what has not been read. I suspect that it has something to do with preconceived notions.
What is to be clicked to read more?
Did you search the site for Journal of Health Economics?
But critics said that the research, which appears in the respected Journal of Health Economics, reflected American attitudes that did not necessarily apply in Britain.
And I actually can see why young girls who start their sexual life early could have a higher chance of depression.
1. Depression has led them into their sexual life. Depression, may be a part of a feeling of not feeling loved, thus they are looking for love to not be so unhappy.
2. They entered a sexual life, fell in love and well got dumped. That can depress even a mature woman.
3. They entered a sexual relationship to make a guy happy, cause the puppy dog eyes, or the we are only going to go this far and oops next thing you know it's all the way. Then it's I can't believe this has happened...
4. It's a baby on the way..how does she tell her parents..and I am sorry but a lot of guys disappear..does she have an abortion, does she keep it, there's $$$$, there's the "we" are in each others life forever. ect
5. Girlfriends, she saw him first, sloppy seconds, hidden relationships (did I say that).
So as a 47 year old woman, with a degree in childhood development, I can totally see more girls who are depressed have or are sexually active. Mr. Saint, oh you are so not going to like what I say here and you know it. You're a 16 year old boy...go back to your math books.
I trust that, before any further condemnation, you will read the study. There are some good studies that would be supportive of a position of the Christian Medical Fellowship. There is also crap that would support them - or any other group. Many people confuse covariance and correlation. Perhaps the study, itself, gets it straight. With a longitudinal study of N=14000, they certainly would have adequate cell size to give great degrees of freedom for many other statistics - even with a dozen or so demographic variables.
I quote: "It is an absolutely horrible study." You do not have the data to say that. Based on a superficial reading of the abstract and outline, it agrees with much that I have read and, more importantly, with clinical experience.
You are right about that Brandy; I should have said that it was an absolutely horrible use of the study. I would like to read the original study to see if it is any good. For all I know it could be very good .thanks for finding the abstract, I will look up the original text next time at UCB, I have access to there entire database.
I don't think the study is saying that to be sexually active is going to cause depression, and therefore to not be sexually active you will not be depressed.
Perhaps there are more sexually active girls who are depressed then non sexually active girls. And this would be able to determined by looking at the numbers.
Yes patient records are private, yet doctors are able to look at their numbers. Lets say a doctor treats 100 girls for depression, and 80 of those girls are or have been sexually active. Of those 80 what if 70 give their doctors the information that sexual activity was part of their depression. And if the 20 that have not been sexually active lets say that 12 give their doctors the information that they were conflicted with becoming sexually active. So that means that of the 100 there are that 82 have depression related to sexually activity, or the lack of it.
And the banana study, put a condom on it and push. If we can do a banana well why just not a man....It's cause and effect....
Small, I thought only a teenage mind would make that connection. Anyways, that was not the case; the study was not asking girls why they were depressed just if they were. The fact is, by definition it was a correlative study and by definition you can not show cause and effect because you can not show variable dependency. My beef was more if you look at the people using this study saying that sexual activity causes depression. The study its self may be fine but some of the interpretations are appalling
[QUOTE=Mr. Saint;225216]Small, I thought only a teenage mind would make that connection. Anyways, that was not the case; the study was not asking girls why they were depressed just if they were. The fact is, by definition it was a correlative study and by definition you can not show cause and effect because you can not show variable dependency. My beef was more if you look at the people using this study saying that sexual activity causes depression. The study its self may be fine but some of the interpretations are appalling[/QUOTE]
Following a study of more than 14,000 adolescents aged between 14 and 17, researchers said that these feelings could be directly ascribed to sexual activity, rather than outside influences, such as family difficulties.
Saint, the above paragraph is from the study. Directly ascrined to sexual activity...shows cause, rather that outside influences...not the cause. As a teenage boy, don't go there. This is as far out of your relm, math, science, enginering as about anything. Accept the research, it is what it is...a teenage boy may not get it.
It's the comment: But critics said that the research, which appears in the respected Journal of Health Economics, reflected American attitudes that did not necessarily apply in Britain. that makes me think. Brandye would be the best one to clarify this statement. Are British parents more accepting of
their daughers becoming sexually active than American? I have also emailed several people, male and female, in Canada for their opinions as well.
You have to watch your weasel words, that small paragraph were filled with them, things like “could be”. Also they never said “because”, it has a very specific definition. “Ascribe” just means that there is a relationship between the two. It also could mean that depression cause girls to become sexually active, or there parent’s response made them depressed, or the social stigma that comes from not being a virgin. I have to ask you did you type the article in to Google and see what people are using it for. Ultimately when it comes down to the individual level, the study means nothing. There are so many variables you can’t say anything about the individual. For example, if a girl is raised very religious family and has sex she has a much higher chance of becoming depressed then a girl raised in a sexually open family. You can’t say that every girl is going to have a higher chance of becoming depressed because she is sexually active, just as you can’t say that they will not become depressed because of it. I admit that there are girls out there that are depressed because they had sex but that dose not mean that all girl should stay celibate because it will make them unhappy, as some of the articles are claming.
European sex education is more complete, on the whole, than American as I have seen it described here and in the professional literature. Contraceptives were openly advertised in European countries long before in the US and, I believe, in Canada. In central Europe, condom adverts are much more common than feminine hygiene adverts.
We know that the incidence of sexual activity among teens is virtually the same in N. America and across Europe but the incidence of teen pregnancy is much higher, double, in the US. This all points towards a more open approach to sex in general. Where I was raised in the Hebrides, sexual repression is practiced as a fine art! So, there are pockets of openness and repression. I think the line in the study about contraception ameliorating the depression somewhat may be in play. European adolescents generally have easy access to contraception and have been taught how to use it.
Saint:
As you know, as do others, stats are used to support a theory or focal point of interest for the writer.
Once said in a Master's Stat's courses & Program Planning and evaluation--"Number's don't lie but liars figure"--Author Unknown.
One can support nearly any claim based on the "scholarly" opinion being presented especially if in a "Journaled Article"!
Always seek the correlation of others, as you have here, and the potential outcomes and based biases. Look at the study; shoot it down based on skewness, tainting, types of study, & margins of errors. Look at the control group as well; find a flaw.
Yea I know, I am just so tired of people misusing science. I love a quote from Sherlock Home’s and I am recalling from memory so it might be a little off. “You should look for a theory to suit your evidence, not evidence to suit your theory”. This article just happened to catch my attention and I wanted to bitch about it and see if I could find the actual study.
[quote=Mr. Saint;225340]Yea I know, I am just so tired of people misusing science. I love a quote from Sherlock Home’s and I am recalling from memory so it might be a little off. “You should look for a theory to suit your evidence, not evidence to suit your theory”. This article just happened to catch my attention and I wanted to bitch about it and see if I could find the actual study.[/quote]
Yes, you may be correct but people use stats & evaluation techniques to support an evidence based study; meanwhile, drawing upon others which share similar thoughts and to shoot down those who have a different opinion...more prevalent in scholarly writings!
When proving a point which requires substantive evidence it turns to a numeric proof--not looking at it as a science. It's proving a theoretical based "science" [science in a different field] through mathematical correlations. You have a theory of why Government "failed" and wish to demonstrate your theory. The proof is backed up not just based on other's similar theory but on math study to demonstrate effectiveness & efficiency to promote the pro/con of the "Benefits of Sex Education" in a government which stifles or forbids such in the Educational system. If not for such there would be strict abstinence with higher STD/Pregnancy rates; meanwhile, it empowers others to think out of the "box"--the exceptions are the extremists...
Saint, weasel words, at least I know how to spell does vs dose, ya ya I know dyslexia. How about the fact that I was a sexually active girl, 14. And yes depression has shown it's nasty head in my life now and then. And I've had my guilt about being active so young, and hiding the relationship from my parents. But I love life, there have been many hurdles for me to leap and I do it with as large an upbeat attitude as I can.
And it said: Following a study of more than 14,000 adolescents aged between 14 and 17, researchers said that these feelings could be directly ascribed to sexual activity, rather than outside influences, such as family difficulties.
So it's the sexual activity and has nothing to do with family, right. It's an inner turmoil. So you wanted to bitch, and find the study when you were the one that provided the source of the study to us...
Sorry I just wanted to stick up for myself and again tell Saint about his spelling error that totally bugs me....LOL Saint, I'm probably older than your mom so give me the respect I deserve, and put a cork in it.