[QUOTE]Tessie, all I know is that if it is a choice, I made that choice somewhere around the mature age of eleven- never even knowing what a "homosexual" or "gay" person was.  Do people really believe an eleven year old could "decide" to be gay?

I have no answer for that. Since I have such little contact with gays except through a few aquaintence over the years, I know very little other then what I hear from the media and my own Christian community. Which I am sure you can image how that differs with one another.

Now I wouldn't say for sure if it is a choice or not because I imagine that could vary to the person. Like I said I just don't know enough to say.

I do know that it makes me mad when people show disgust over gays just because they see them only as a sexual beings that they don't understand or like.

That makes me mad when it is done to anyone. We are complicated humans that are ever changing and trying to find our place in this weird world of ours. And we sure are a lot more then our sexual organs and what we like to do with them.

I always think it would be such a better place if we would just mind our own business and worry a little more about what we are doing and why then what our neighbors are doing.

Labels have been with us since the beginning of recorded history, so to thump my chest in abhorrance of such things is futal - tho it does feel good to say it.

As far as what oberon said earlier about "chemical imbalance" as a cause for bisexuality - of course it's possible. But again, i view bisexuality as kinda like sexual purgetory ..ahahhaha...and again..it's all about CHOOSING WHO TO HAVE SEX WITH.

If tessie decided she wanted to try sex with a woman and enjoyed it...GREAT....if she didin't like it..thats fine too. The same with her hubby....if he were to try it FINE, etc. But we're not talking about life partnerships here....it's just hedonistic fun. And personally, i think it's cool either way...and there's no harm in exploring all parts of sex (safely and consensually of course).

I mean, if Tessie had her hubby blindfolded and a guy was to perform oral on him.....and he liked it..would that make him any less her hubby or heterosexual? Of course not. Does it make him bi? Nope, just means it felt good. Any volunteers for this experiment? hahaha..just kidding Tessie!

I've yet to meet a bisexual person who could honestly say "I have fallen totally in love with a man or a woman..and could enjoy each as a primary life partner.

I just like to really keep the issues of SEX and LOVE separate.

Being the father of a 14 year old son, i think i've got proof that i was able to get hard and impregnate my xwife. I CHOSE to have sex with her...but in my heart, i finally came to understand that the love i had for her was not the kind of love that completed me. You know the rest of the story, so i won't bore anyone with repeating it.

My xwife even said....."honey, you're either gay or str8....so you need to find out for yourself and stop relying on the "bi" title as a way of not addressing who you really are inside."

Is this a ramble or what? ahahhahaah. HOpe i made sense!~

[QUOTE=Quote (oberon @ May 10 2004,10:34)]Tessie, I understand what you are saying about a sudden revelation.  But, unfortunately, if someone has these feelings, they tend to keep them to themselves for fear of being rejected for them.  So a lot of the time- especially for men- they come out later in a long-term relationship.  (Don't you or your husband freak out, I'm NOT talking about you specifically...lol)  And there is the sad fact that many gay men refuse to deal with being gay, and get married to try to "fix" themselves.  Which never works, and usually only hurts innocent by-standers- like the unsuspecting wife and children.

Hopefully as gays gain more acceptance, these things will be discussed more openly and we'll have fewer shocks.[/QUOTE]
Yes I hear you on this. I have watched plenty of Oprah to see what a tragedy for men/women that come out years later have done to their families.

It is all a very complicated thing I imagine.  

I don't even pretend to understand homosexuals or the struggles they must go through to have acceptance in this world.

I am a Christian and have been reared in all the scriptures and such. Don't need to go into that but I do wonder about the choice thing.

I mean why would people chose willing to be something that will cause them so much stress in life?

I don't know, it's all to much for my brain. Heck I am to busy trying to sort out who I am in this world right now.

I do think I hi-jacked this thread though.

Rawbob and Oberon you two are just so sweet. I think you both rock too. In fact I finally told my husband that I am on this board just so I could read some of the post I respond to here.

I don't know anyone personally that is gay. So reading your intelligent and caring responses on this board have been very nice.

Not that I didn't think gay's were nice or intelligent already. LOL

So anyhoo, I read this whole thread to hubby. He stands by his stance that he has never thought of another man in that way. He could be lying to me or himself. He did say that if he was gay then his dream man would be that Van Disel or that Matrix guy. LOL

In which I said "Honey if you could get them I wouldn't mind it if you were gay."  

On a serious note I do think that people rely on labels in order to know where they fit in society. We are good at saying what we are or are not. When that gets clouded it confuses the person and others that know them.

I know that if my husband all of sudden started talking about having a desire to be with a man even if it was just for sexual reasons I would question then on who he really is.

I know for me I have lived along time with labels that I have attached to myself and I am trying not to do that and to be who I am and not what others expect me to be.

Did I make any sense at all there?

I find this string of posts interesting!

It's amazing how strong our psycho-sexual fantasies drive ourreality.

It's ok for a man to want to see his female partner with another female. Some females even embrace this and engage in F/F sex to satisfy their man.

However, there are so few who embrace the contrary.

If you were to ever go on "gay boards" or even all the Yahoo groups out there that are chock-full of married guys who meet guys for sex, but still love their wives. They are absolutly sure that if their wife found out about their liking sex with a guy that they'll be divorced - or worse yet ...branded as being gay (that was tounge-in-cheek folks).

Not that anything we do or say here will make a difference, but trust me ladies.....almost EVERY man has has some sexual contact with anther man during their life.

My xwife and i were swingers too, and i got to the point where i used to say, "hey, if you want to swing with us, then it's all up for fun......you can't just say 'i want to watch our wives play'....i always said...if we're all naked in bed..then eveyrone's game for anything.....you can't handle that..then move on. It's amazing how almost EVERY COUPLE would balk at first, but once we got behind closed doors (where no one would see us)....how MUCH did indeed happen.

Ok...rant over!

I THINK TESSIE ROCKS!

[QUOTE=Quote (oberon @ May 08 2004,23:22)]quote]
Okay, I'm going to respond with an intelligent sounding "Huh??" LOL

I can only assume you mean that the other woman would be only for your husband?[/QUOTE]
No what I mean is that if we had another woman it would be for both of us. Hubby's fantasy is for me to be with another woman.

We have done it with another couple once and my expierence with the other woman wasn't good. For one thing I was extrememly nervous and to drunk to really enjoy anything.

I did enjoy her husband though.  

I look at it this way that if we were to add another woman it would be for the soul purpose of enhancing our sex life. No different to me then watching porn, cyber sex, using the cam or any of the other things we engage in.

I do know that if we were to ever do something like that I would have to be turned on by the woman too. One should never do something for the sole reason of pleasing their partner if they really don't want to.

Now rethinking the answer I gave somewhat. I still stick by my statement of not wanting my man to want another man.

However and not that I am bisexual. I would never say never to being with a woman.

But that would be for straight sex purposes and my man would have to be there.

[QUOTE=Quote (oberon @ April 24 2004,20:40)]Okay, this question just occurred to me, and in doing a search I see it hasn't been discussed.  So I just wondered what everyone else's opinion might be.

Would you date and/or become seriously involved with someone who was bisexual?[/QUOTE]
No I wouldn't at all. That is just my own personal preference. I would not like to know that my man would want another man. Now I don't care what you are. I am speaking about my man. That could be because I know for a fact that I am completely straight and would expect the same with my guy.

Time for me to chime in here! ahhahaha.

Because there are no "absolutes" in the human condition, i can't just say there's no such thing as being bi.

As a gay man, who was married to a woman for 12 years, discovered after many years that i had been repressing my homosexuality. Why? Because society tells us since we're born that it's all about adam and even..men belong with women, etc....all major religions reinforce it, we're always bombarded with heterosexual images and morays.

Now, from a purely "sexual" standpoint.....it's pretty obvious that as an "act".....sex between 2 adults (m/m or f/f) is not uncommon. That's why I belive bisexuality is about sex......not identity.

Until i was 30 years old, i'd only had heterosexual sex. I lost my virginity to a woman at the age of 16 and had dozens of partners before i got married. I know i'm not alone either. That truely underscores the power of mind over matter.

Like i said, this is my own opinion, but i don't belive bisexuality is about inner happiness and true identity. I can have sex with a man or a woman (physically)..but in my heart and mind, i know that my only true happiness as it applies to a "life partner" will be with a man.

I could go on and on....trust me..hahahah..but i hope i've made my thoughts clear on this...again..i am NOT judging anyone..it's my view on the issue.

The only real "risk" is from a public perception standpoint. We have worked so hard over the past 20 years to help society understand that being GAY or str8 is not a CHOICE. Bisexuality flies in the face of that because - in my opinion - the overwhelming majority of those who identify as bisexual say it's about "choice."

I can "choose" who to have sex with..but i can't "choose" the genitalia of the one who i know in my heart will be my life partner. If you're a gay man its a man. If youre a gay woman, it's a woman. Just how i see it!

I am bi. Trust me, nothing turns my husband on more than I bring a friend home for sharing.

I would date a woman who is bi-sexual considering I'm male. I've always fantasized having sex with two different women at the same time.

I would date a man who is bi too, women also love three somes with two gay men.

Dating bi people can be great, it could leave you to a good threesome.

I really do not know the answer to that question. If Eva had remained married or if my fiance had not died, we each may have led very ordinary heterosexual lives. But, there have been studies concluding that up to thirty percent of married women do have homosexual partners at some point. While that figure seems high to me, I know many women who have outside affairs with other women - without their partners knowledge or consent. These are not casual contacts but women who are long time friends.

Neither Eva nor I have outside sexual contact with women. We have lesbian friends and, in fact, the racing crew for my sailboat is two bisexual women (Eva and I), one openly lesbian woman and a married housewife with three children. Sometimes we stretch our all girl rule and take either Eva's son or one of the married woman's teen sons. A little youthful muscle can help even in social racing.

So, open relationship? I never think of us as having that but I guess it meets the requirements. Certainly the married women I know who have girl friends are not open relationships. In some cases the husband could never understand. But while men are very likely to cheat with other women, women can very safely cheat with other women. And do not even have to douche!

Well, as many her know, I am an actively bi-sexual woman. My primary relationship is another bi-sexual woman whom I have know all my life. After school, we went our separate ways for education, she married, had a son and was divorced; I lived with a fellow male student in med school and had a serious relationship that ended with his untimely death.

Eva and I are very content but each have an occasional need for some "penis time." We have very strict rules about that and neither of us would cheat. There are two things a man can do that another woman cannot: furnish a real, live penis to take into me; and, 2. leave a little deposit. The first is mainly physical (it feels much better than any substitute device) and the second, psychological. Biologically, we women are supposed to receive the semen to keep the species going and there is something very satisfying about doing that. Otherwise, my female partners (and there have been fewer of them than male partners) can do anything a man can do for me. In many cases with greater satisfaction for me.

What happens if either of us becomes serious with a man? I do not know.

So there is half the answer. Whether I would become knowingly involved with a bisexual male is doubtful. The risks are too high for me. I am "with" a man six or seven times a year. I do not want to be worrying about that limited, but very enjoyable, contact. Eva and I have talked this out to extremes and strangers are simply not allowed.

I suppose that I don't think of it as bisexual because to me that would imply that I would think of being with a woman for other reasons other then just for sexual pleasure.

Now I don't know squat about bisexuals and how or what they think. I just know that my husbands biggest fantasy is to have me with another woman. Typical hetro man thing I guess.LOL.

I'm an active "bi-paratrexual" (I love TG's and GG's; see definition of paratrexual at [url=http://www.reneereyes.com]Renee Reyes Transgender Webmistress of Atlanta). My favorite girlfriends and ex-wife are bisexual and polyamorous. A 3-some with a pre/non-op TG and a cis-GG hottie would be HAWG HEAVEN for me, especially as an on-going relationship (a really MOD squad!).