If 100 women have regular sex for a year, the number who become pregnant will be:
No protection - 85
Withdrawal - 40
Condoms alone - 10
Spermicide alone - 15
Hormone (pill, etc) - 3
Condoms plus spermicide in the vagina - 3
IUD - 4
This all assumes protection, properly used, every time. The spermicide on the condom should be considered lube. There is not enough to really protect against pregnancy. There should be 150 mg's of spermicide in the vagina and the normal dose (applicator, sheet, tablet, suppository) of whatever you are using will provide this.
You know, this is much more helpful than trying to look it up on the internet. You say exactly what I needed to know.
Thanks.
'Welcome, de Nada, bitte or whatever you speak in Somewhere!
Thank you. I speak plain english. Haha.
Any idea what the numbers would be for condoms plus the Pill?
[QUOTE=_Alex_;167025]Any idea what the numbers would be for condoms plus the Pill?[/QUOTE]
way less than an unplanned pregnancy
well if the pill is 3/100... condom plus pill would have to be less than that... like 2/100 or 1/100
The number would be infinitesimal. Something like 5 in 10,000. Remember, this is pregnancy. The condom also protects against trasmittable disease.
you could say pill =3 condom=10 so either way around you would gest the same result by say 10 % of 3 % or 3 % of 10 %
can an oral medication for acne (doxycycline) affect the effectiveness of the pill?
MSC:
YES!!!
Doxy is know to decrease the effectiveness of the BCP and it's recommended to use a back up method since it effects the estrogen level of the pill...
MSC:
I have known a few patients who are on doxy. for acne (and other oral meds) two products I have seen work for patients are Serious Skin Care & Murad. I know what the Dermatologist's have recommended for topical treatments and these products have beat some serious acne. Murad you can buy on the internet but it is very expensive; however, the Serious Skin Care is on HSN (Home Shooping Network--check the HSN website) and if you use the entire kit for acne it's wonderful and it's not very expensive--it's a glycolic product.
[QUOTE=mcsgirl;169357]can an oral medication for acne (doxycycline) affect the effectiveness of the pill?[/QUOTE]
Drugs.com
Yes b/c it is in the tetracycline antibiotic family.
Unless the condom breaks,and the pill was not effective for what ever reason (cold medication).
Cold meds do not affect the pill. Anto-bacterials often do.
[QUOTE=Brandye;165956]This all assumes protection, properly used, every time.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure about that? Those look like the figures for typical use, not proper use. The condom figure, for one, should be more like 3, rather than 10. I suspect the hormonal would be more like 0.
Does anyone know the chances if both a condom and withdrawal are used?
[QUOTE=NizeGie;172281]Are you sure about that? Those look like the figures for typical use, not proper use. The condom figure, for one, should be more like 3, rather than 10. I suspect the hormonal would be more like 0.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure your right. I believe with proper use Condom are 3 and hormonal (pill) is about 3 in a thousand, the shot is about 1 in a thousand.
Nizeguy & masturb8r,
Yes, I am certain of my figures. Most manufacturers post the rates from their clinical trials. These trials include controls that do not occur in real life. For instance, testing a pill includes a phone call every day to insure that it is taken at the same time. Any change of diet or adding supplements and drugs must be approved by the testers. Specific training with follow-up contact is made in using barrier devices.
In real life, none of the systems get really close to these test data. The condom figure is quite right. If you read the brochure in the condom box and follow it exactly including IMMEDIATE withdrawal after ejaculation, you MAY approach the theroetical limit. Most condom failure is from semen swimming around the open end and it does not take long for that to happen. There have been posts on coming three times in the same condom and I believe many of us tried something like that in our youth. A surprising number of women add supplements or are put on drugs that interfere with the hormone.
The figures I have posted are for real life, uncontrolled practices. I am not here to argue points; I am here to help women protect themselves. Theoretical effectiveness does not mean much to the 16 yo mother-to-be.
Can someone (Brandye or anyone) explain what exactly a spermicide (such as a vaginal lube type) does and what's an effective brand to get? Obviously using a condom + a spermicide would greatly reduce the risk of pregnancy...also, whats the deal with the "morning after" pill?...how effective is it?....thanks
[quote=jakeg08;178723]Can someone (Brandye or anyone) explain what exactly a spermicide (such as a vaginal lube type) does and what's an effective brand to get? Obviously using a condom + a spermicide would greatly reduce the risk of pregnancy...also, whats the deal with the "morning after" pill?...how effective is it?....thanks[/quote]
A spermicide kills the sperm. KY makes a brand with a spermicide in it but look for the box marked properly as a Spermicide. There are also VCF's (vaginal contraceptive films) and suppositories. Look around the store when you are there look for the jelly's with an applicator. The Brand? Does not matter much. Gynol II Extra Strength (Ortho Options) makes a decent one & it's available in most drug stores. Condoms and Spermicides are good methods and easy to obtain.
The MAP or Plan "B" is only emergency contraception. It means if you did not have protected sex, the condom broke, or some other mishap occurred then you use this as an emergency attempt to stop pregnancy. It halts ovulation and prevents the implant of a fertilized egg to attach to the wall. Look up the website for Plan B...it tells you a great deal of info. But it's not Birth Control.
Here is a link:
http://www.fwhc.org/birth-control/spermicide.htm
also, is it better to pull out of the girls vagina before you cum? i would think it would...but yeah...just wondering
I have a comment regarding withdrawal as well. There is no way in hell that IF DONE PROPERLY 40% of women become pregnant when that is the only form of contraception used. Certainly, a large problem with the method is that men often don't pull out in time - but that's not practicing it properly. Some cite precum as a source of pregnancy, though I've read numerous studies that found that there are no sperm in "precum" and I believe it even comes from the prostate. I've also read that sperm that IS occasionally found in this fluid is the risidual sperm from an earlier ejaculation and can be killed through urination. My girlfriend and I use a withdrawal along with birth control in case of any "slip-ups" although there hasn't been one yet.
[quote=Mr. Hide;182326]I have a comment regarding withdrawal as well. There is no way in hell that IF DONE PROPERLY 40% of women become pregnant when that is the only form of contraception used. Certainly, a large problem with the method is that men often don't pull out in time - but that's not practicing it properly. Some cite precum as a source of pregnancy, though I've read numerous studies that found that there are no sperm in "precum" and I believe it even comes from the prostate. I've also read that sperm that IS occasionally found in this fluid is the risidual sperm from an earlier ejaculation and can be killed through urination. My girlfriend and I use a withdrawal along with birth control in case of any "slip-ups" although there hasn't been one yet.[/quote]
Let me be the first to congratulate you and your g/f on your upcoming pregnancy is you decide to use withdrawal alone!!!! Apparently YOU have not read the studies NOR done the empirical research on sperm presence. Take a microscope and look in your urine post ejaculation about 4 hours later--post void. Have you ever thought either you or your g/f are infertile? Or just damned lucky? Go tell Brandye, she is full of **** with what she is saying; seen with her own eyes, as well as the same for me with what I see. Both in patients and medical research. Don't interpret research you are not familiar with, you are doing yourselves a great disservice.
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Source: Zuckerman Z, Weiss DB, Orvieto R, Does preejaculatory penile secretion originating from Cowper's gland contain sperm? Journal of Assisted Reproduction & Genetics 2003; 20 (40): 157-159.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=black]The conclusion was YES in fact preejaculatory fluid contains spermazoa and advocates against the use coitus interruptius as a method of birth control. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
Mr Hide,
Sperm is always present in the male genito-urinary tract. Whether it is generated with the "pre-cum" or is just lingering is immaterial. Most urine samples of men show the presence of sperm. During sexual arousal, the number of sperm present increases dramatically. They aare even swimming out on their own not awaiting the big event.
Sperm is generated in the testes and supplied to the prostate on demand - or when storage space is used up - where it mixes with the semen awaiting ejaculation. When you wait too long, it simply discharges itself as in nocturnal emission.
You are correct that the male often does not withdraw in time. That is reality. You also point out that you and your g/f use of contraceptives. Nothing wrong with that but advocating withdrawal as a sole means of contraception is doing a disservice to all those young men who are too anxious to get in there bare.
My best friend and his girlfriend used withdrawl on its own for a while, and he was convinced that it worked extremely well! Until he thought she was up the duff, and so onto the pill they went. I'm definitely no expert, but jesus, be careful! In an ideal world, those not wanting pregnancy would be using condoms, spermicide, the pill AND withdrawal, but that just doesn't happen...
The form of contraception used and how much (or lack of) all depends on the risk couples wish to assume.
I have a question: why do 10% of condom users having regular sex for a year get pregnant? Is this statistic entirely reliant on it bursting or, what?
[quote=trobson666;185612]I have a question: why do 10% of condom users having regular sex for a year get pregnant? Is this statistic entirely reliant on it bursting or, what?[/quote]
Generally the reason is leakage from around the opening of the condom.
Very few condoms break outright or leak. Too often we like to tarry awhile before withdrawing. That is when most of the damage is done. They have been know to shred and it is a bit of a shock to watch your partner witdraw, from you, with shreds of condom hanging from him. That is why we recommend vaginal spermicide with condoms.
My friend was concieved with both condom and pill.
You know when you're not wanted when...
[QUOTE=sera300;182351]Let me be the first to congratulate you and your g/f on your upcoming pregnancy is you decide to use withdrawal alone!!!! Apparently YOU have not read the studies NOR done the empirical research on sperm presence. Take a microscope and look in your urine post ejaculation about 4 hours later--post void. Have you ever thought either you or your g/f are infertile? Or just damned lucky? Go tell Brandye, she is full of **** with what she is saying; seen with her own eyes, as well as the same for me with what I see. Both in patients and medical research. Don't interpret research you are not familiar with, you are doing yourselves a great disservice.
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Source: Zuckerman Z, Weiss DB, Orvieto R, Does preejaculatory penile secretion originating from Cowper's gland contain sperm? Journal of Assisted Reproduction & Genetics 2003; 20 (40): 157-159.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=black]The conclusion was YES in fact preejaculatory fluid contains spermazoa and advocates against the use coitus interruptius as a method of birth control. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
Please read my post in it's entirety before you decide to obnoxiously criticize me. I state in my post that we are using both birth control and withdrawal. All that I was saying is that the 40% pregnancy rate for those who use withdrawal alone almost certainly factors in those who do not pull out in time. Obviously, this is not "correct/perfect use." No I have not done the empirical research as I'm 17. I apologize. However , I did not "interpret" any studies or research but simply restated their findings. Forgive me for not posting all of my sources - at one point, I looked into the issue rather extensively, read a number of studies, and concluded that at the very least there is very little consensus within the medical community on the presence of sperm in "pre cum." Perhaps I am wrong. I am not saying that anyone is full of anything and it would be irresponsible to rely on any findings but those that claim the greatest risk for using withdrawal alone.
[QUOTE]
Mr Hide,
Sperm is always present in the male genito-urinary tract. Whether it is generated with the "pre-cum" or is just lingering is immaterial. Most urine samples of men show the presence of sperm. During sexual arousal, the number of sperm present increases dramatically. They aare even swimming out on their own not awaiting the big event.
Sperm is generated in the testes and supplied to the prostate on demand - or when storage space is used up - where it mixes with the semen awaiting ejaculation. When you wait too long, it simply discharges itself as in nocturnal emission.
You are correct that the male often does not withdraw in time. That is reality. You also point out that you and your g/f use of contraceptives. Nothing wrong with that but advocating withdrawal as a sole means of contraception is doing a disservice to all those young men who are too anxious to get in there bare.
[/QUOTE]
I thought that the acidic qualities of urine kill sperm and one of the uses of "pre cum" is to neutralize that acid in the urethra (sorry, I don't know if thats the correct body part). If so, how can sperm be found in urine? Are they dead? In any case, I don't believe I ever advocated the use of withdrawal alone - I only mentioned that the 40% failure rate for the use of withdrawal seemed quite low if it was "used correctly." Thanks for the replies.
[QUOTE=Mr. Hide;182326]I have a comment regarding withdrawal as well. There is no way in hell that IF DONE PROPERLY 40% of women become pregnant when that is the only form of contraception used..[/QUOTE]
N'uff said:cool:
I read that a large number of women can be allergic to spermicide, is this true? I have very sensitive skin so I never have my guy use condoms with spermicide on them. However one of my close friends in a nurse practioniar and she is always on my case about using two methods of birth control. I can't take the pill because it interfers with some other medication that i am using. I am scared of IUDs.
I had a pregnancy scare in Jan., because I thought the condom leaked, because there was WAY more fluid after sex than normal, but I took a preg. test and everything was fine.
Any suggestions?
Well if we're just going by statistical birth rates given X contraceptive, then any combo of the list Brandye gave would just be multiplied together right? Should be just statistical math. So for pill and condom.
should be 10/100 * 3/100 = .3% or 3 for every 1000... Using both.
ps. I have a cousin who became pregnent while using both the pill and a condom. So I now its at least possible.
[quote=michelle2004;187724]I read that a large number of women can be allergic to spermicide, is this true? I have very sensitive skin so I never have my guy use condoms with spermicide on them. However one of my close friends in a nurse practioniar and she is always on my case about using two methods of birth control. I can't take the pill because it interfers with some other medication that i am using. I am scared of IUDs.
I had a pregnancy scare in Jan., because I thought the condom leaked, because there was WAY more fluid after sex than normal, but I took a preg. test and everything was fine.
Any suggestions?[/quote]
Have you looked at progesterone only BCP's? Depo shots? Since you are single, you still need the condoms, so if the other two does not work for you, perhaps a barrier method such as a Cervical cap or Diaphragm with condoms?
Some women are irritated by spermicides. But you have to try it for yourself to see if you have a problem with it. Try the VCF...
[QUOTE=sera300;187761]Have you looked at progesterone only BCP's? Depo shots? Since you are single, you still need the condoms, so if the other two does not work for you, perhaps a barrier method such as a Cervical cap or Diaphragm with condoms?
Some women are irritated by spermicides. But you have to try it for yourself to see if you have a problem with it. Try the VCF...[/QUOTE]
BCP conflicts with my medications I am currently on and I think Depo would do the same thing, plus I think the depo shot is kind of scary, because is disrupts your natural cycle so much. I am scared of becoming barren.
Are diaphrams hard to use? I obviously have never used one....and where do you get them?
I found a cervical cap easier to use then a diaphragm, plus it can stay in for a few days; therefore, it makes sex less orchestrated. It's not like, "Ok honey, have to go put the diaphragm in!" Both work well and if used w/condoms you should be fine as far as STD prevention & pregnancy prevention. Both of these you have to be fit for by your doctor. They tell you to use a spermicidal jelly with them, I did not, and if you are using condoms I BELIEVE you can skip it--Brandye can clear that one up. i believe the jelly was only a back up if you used this method alone.
I have not looked at this thread for quite a while. So, some updates in response to posts.
Mr Hide, you have good book learning but some is out of date. For decades we thought that precum was there to neutralize acidity. The current theory is that it is actually a lubricant that helps the glob of semen pass easily. You could also say that if a hormonal system fails because of a dietery supplement, that was not correct use. The number I give are not theoretical or advertised success rates; they are real life experiences of thousands of women reporting what happened.
Michelle, a few women do react to spermicides - not many. Two of the three most commonly used, including Non-9, are detergents. And women who react to detergent may have problems. Read the labels and you will find the ingredients. If you react to one, try one of the others. This is a trial and error effort.
As a long ago diaphragm user, I did not find them hard to use. But there are lots of jokes around about their springing around the room after they were squeezed with the jelly on the fingers. I still have some patients using them but many have replaced them with the sponge. Another idea a few patients have come up with is to use the disposable menstrual cup as a cervical cap. Not a recommendat but for women who find they fit, you do not need to see us doctors.
If a medication interferes with one hormonal form of birth control, it will interfere with all. Talk to your doctor.
[QUOTE=Brandye;185634]Very few condoms break outright or leak. Too often we like to tarry awhile before withdrawing. That is when most of the damage is done. They have been know to shred and it is a bit of a shock to watch your partner witdraw, from you, with shreds of condom hanging from him. That is why we recommend vaginal spermicide with condoms.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for suggesting the thread to me.
As for this, I asked what the chances were getting her pregnant when I would ejaculate in her while using a condom.
From what you are saying, leakage at the top is the only way or tear right? What if it didn't tear and I came out fast enough before I might possibly leak. Is it still safe?
Im sorry if I am confusing before hand. Im not thinking straight, sorry :S
Did you not read the responses to you other thread on the same question...answer was 10%. You use condoms and she adds a spermicide from here on in. Meaning of 100 women who use condoms alone 10 will become preg if used properly.
Hey Brandye, you are probably annoyed by everyone asking their own "what if's" but what's your estimate if the girl is on birth control and the guy never has an orgasm? When I say never has an orgasm, I mean not the withdrawl method but rather keeping the excitement rate low and ending after the girl is satisfied.
[QUOTE=Mclovin;190471]Hey Brandye, you are probably annoyed by everyone asking their own "what if's" but what's your estimate if the girl is on birth control and the guy never has an orgasm? When I say never has an orgasm, I mean not the withdrawl method but rather keeping the excitement rate low and ending after the girl is satisfied.[/QUOTE]
What form of "birth control"??
And yes then there is the debate of whether precum has sperm... so then does it really matter if you withdrawl or not.
And wouldn't that be the w/drawl method?!?
What I do get annoyed about is young men doing their utmost to figure out how to get in there bare. If you both have pants off, there should be a condom on the penis.
The male reproductive system is full of sperm. Whether or not the "pre-cum" specifically contains sperm or not is irrelevant. A bare penis in an unprotected vagina is what we do to become partents. Orgasm or not, sperm are being dispensed.
I had somthin similar happen to me wit my gf. Should i be worried about pregnancy?
We were upstairs at my house and we got caught in the heat of the moment. I had no protection so i put it in but didn't cum. We ended short cuz my dad came home early!!! Oh and she's on BCP.
I swear to use condoms from now on. I just got wrapped up in the moment and forgot. No pun intended lol
haha i'll probably get a virtual slap for asking, but how often in pre-cum is there semen?...Trust me, every time i've had sex, i've always used a condom, no lie there...I'm just curious as to a problem I've had with a broken condom (i've been talking about that on here for the past few days)
[quote=jakeg08;191242]haha i'll probably get a virtual slap for asking, but how often in pre-cum is there semen?...Trust me, every time i've had sex, i've always used a condom, no lie there...I'm just curious as to a problem I've had with a broken condom (i've been talking about that on here for the past few days)[/quote]
Every time, depends on the quantity of sperm. I am going to "virtually slap" you because you wanted to know if there is sperm in precum each time; not semen in precum! And stop breaking the condoms, lol, and buy some spermicide.
:) haha thanks sera...yeah I needed to choose my words better but yes. Thanks again
[QUOTE=Brandye;189262]The number I give are not theoretical or advertised success rates; they are real life experiences of thousands of women reporting what happened.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I missed it, but could you provide the source for your figures?
[quote=Caitlain;193532]Perhaps I missed it, but could you provide the source for your figures?[/quote]
In another post Brandye states it's drawn upon empirical data & the WHO reports.
[quote=sera300;193538]In another post Brandye states it's drawn upon empirical data & the WHO reports.[/quote]
Empirical data would still have a "source" though. I am curious as to what it was. The source used most (in the US, anyway) is Contraceptive Technology, which is the handbook used in the vast majority of OB-GYN courses in medical schools here.
http://www.contraceptivetechnology.com/table.html
The figures there are far lower than they are as presented by Brandye, so I am curious as to what her source(s) is/are.
If the WHO report is the one I think it is, those were global figures and include third world countries where access to contraception and instruction in its use are not exactly on the same level we have in the first world. And therefore would have little practical relevance to any discussion with people using the Net to figure out what method to use.
Anyway, I was just curious as to what the sources were for her figures.
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